CFZ Was McGovern an All-Pro Talent?

[xwalker]

I blame it on Jerry. He's the one who brought up the possibility of Tyler staying at LT and Tyron going to RT. Before that, the assumption was Tyron would be the LT, Tyler the LG and Steele the RT. I believe Stephen/McCarthy said the best five will play. If that's the case, I expect it to be Tyron-Tyler-Biadasz-Martin-Steele until Tyron gets hurt and misses some time.

It becomes more obvious every year that Stephen Jones is running the football operations.
- As long a Stephen, McCarthy, McClay all defer to Jerry in press conferences and on camera, Jerry is content to stay out of the actual decisions.

I said immediately after the season that we'll know for certain who is making decisions once the Zeke decision is made.
- Stephen obviously wanted to cut him.
- Jerry obviously wanted to keep him.
- McCarthy is prepped to agree (on camera) with whatever Jerry says (We're open to Zeke returning).

 

[KJJ]

McGovern couldn’t even beat out Connor Williams.

 

[Stash]

I blame it on Jerry. He's the one who brought up the possibility of Tyler staying at LT and Tyron going to RT.

Yep. Stephen Jones too. That idea is ridiculous. If you aren’t going to play Tyron Smith at LT, you should have cut him. Steele is a better RT at this point in time that Tyron.

Before that, the assumption was Tyron would be the LT, Tyler the LG and Steele the RT. I believe Stephen/McCarthy said the best five will play. If that's the case, I expect it to be Tyron-Tyler-Biadasz-Martin-Steele until Tyron gets hurt and misses some time.

Same here. At least that’s my hope.

 

[gimmesix]

McGovern couldn’t even beat out Connor Williams.

In his defense, McGovern was a much better player last year than he was the previous year when he couldn't beat out Williams. After missing his rookie year, he clearly wasn't ready to start in 2021. He's another one of those players who needed some time to develop, but get dissed by fans when they aren't ready right out of the gate.

 

[Stash]

In his defense, McGovern was a much better player last year than he was the previous year when he couldn't beat out Williams. After missing his rookie year, he clearly wasn't ready to start in 2021. He's another one of those players who needed some time to develop, but get dissed by fans when they aren't ready right out of the gate.

They always get a ‘kick’ on their way out the door.

And they get propped up on their way in. See Chuma Edoga.

 

[beware_d-ware]

McGovern was decent last year. Not great - you would like more push from him in the run game - but he belonged in the starting lineup.

This happens a lot with DTs and guards. It usually takes them until year 3 or even 4 to hit their stride. Then by the time they start playing their best football, they're ready for a second contract. You basically pay for their learning curve, then they capitalize on it elsewhere.

It's a better position to pay a free agent than draft a guy, IMO. 4 years/$32M for McGovern is steep, but if the alternative is using a 2nd or 3rd rounder to replace him, then watching that guy take his lumps for a few years, signing a vet may be worth it.

 

[eromeopolk]

I keep seeing claims that the OLine got worse and there is a huge "hole" at LG.

The only loss was McGovern. If the OLine got radically worse as claimed by CZ, then McGovern must have been a borderline All-Pro.

Note: In some games they alternated McGovern and 40 year old Jason Peters...

In 2021 McGovern started 4 games in place of Connor Williams.
- He was terrible.
- After his 4 starts, they switched back to Conner Penalty Williams.

In 2022 McGovern was somewhere between "good enough" and borderline All-Pro depending on who you ask.

Tyler, Steele and Tyron will all start if healthy.
- That means one of them (probably Tyler) starts at LG.
- Obviously Tyron will eventually miss a game or more with injury issues.

The top options at LG with Tyron out:
- Tyler at LT and Edoga or Farniok at LG.
or
- Waletzko at OG with Tyler at LG.


Farniok: I recently re-reviewed him vs the Bengals (He started 2 games with McGovern out).
- He was "good enough".
- He had many good snaps vs 345 pound DT Josh Tupou.
- He has some good and some bad snaps vs top tier DT DJ Reader.
- Summary: He was generally good physically but made some mistakes while playing next to rookie LT Tyler Smith early in the season.

Edoga:
- Played most (maybe all) games for the Jets at OT. Was a good run blocker but sometimes had issue with Pass blocking.
- Started 1 game last season for the Falcons at LG.
- I reviewed all of his snaps in that game. In my opinion he looked as good or better than McGovern.
- It was only 1 game (Bears). I don't know if the Bears DT are good or bad per se.
https://cowboyszone.com/threads/cowboys-lg-chuma-edoga.510746/page-2#post-12758195

Waletzko:
- My 1st thought when I reviewed his college game footage was "He's a Tyler Smith mini-me".
- Not his physical build, but his play style and on-field demeanor.
- It is not surprising that the same people that drafted Tyler would draft Waletzko.
- He is a freakish athlete. His 9.96 RAS was 6th of 1218 OTs from 1987 to 2022.
- He was already within an NFL weight range when drafted (315).

Free Agent option:
https://cowboyszone.com/threads/cowboys-og-dalton-risner.510850/page-2#post-12758191

Keep it simple. Connor Williams was good, played out of position, and got paid by another team to start. Connor McGovern was good, played C, G, T, and got paid by another team to start. Lael Collins was good, a Pro Bowler, play G, T, and got paid by another team to start.

Hopefully they have players that can step up and be as good or better.

 

[gimmesix]

They always get a ‘kick’ on their way out the door.

And they get propped up on their way in. See Chuma Edoga.

I have trouble propping up any player that we can get on a one-year, $1-million deal. Yes, it's always possible that we struck gold, but I assume it's fool's gold until shown otherwise. There are reasons those players have to take such a small deal. Maybe Edoga's was simply because he was playing tackle when he should have been playing guard, but generally you would think someone else would have figured that out by now.

Whatever the reasons, I'll assume for now that the more-coveted player in free agency is also the better player. Doesn't mean we can't or won't find a replacement for McGovern, because as the OP said, it's not like he was an all-pro; it just means we haven't added anyone who makes me feel certain that we did. If the plan, though, is to start Tyler at LG, then not adding a clearly better alternative to McGovern makes total sense. We'd still be taking a risk with Tyron's health, but the lack of a definitive move would be understandable.

 

[Stash]

I have trouble propping up any player that we can get on a one-year, $1-million deal. Yes, it's always possible that we struck gold, but I assume it's fool's gold until shown otherwise. There are reasons those players have to take such a small deal. Maybe Edoga's was simply because he was playing tackle when he should have been playing guard, but generally you would think someone else would have figured that out by now.

Edoga was flat out cut. By a Jets team that needed offensive linemen.

And the Falcons claimed him for a season, but clearly couldn’t be bothered to keep him around.

Whatever the reasons, I'll assume for now that the more-coveted player in free agency is also the better player.

That’s the reality of it.

Doesn't mean we can't or won't find a replacement for McGovern, because as the OP said, it's not like he was an all-pro; it just means we haven't added anyone who makes me feel certain that we did. If the plan, though, is to start Tyler at LG, then not adding a clearly better alternative to McGovern makes total sense. We'd still be taking a risk with Tyron's health, but the lack of a definitive move would be understandable.

I’m fine if Tyler Smith us there. The best option by far.

 

[big dog cowboy]

The problem isn't that we lost McGovern. The problem is that we haven't strengthen that position or upgraded it. I think we basically downgraded.

Between FA and the draft it's impossible to say "I think we basically downgraded."

 

[big dog cowboy]

he was good

but CZ you know....we lose anyone and all of a sudden they were all pro top 5

 

[LACowboysFan1]

The line will be Tyron at LT and Tyler at LG unless Edoga or someone shows they are outstanding at LG and then Tyron will be Swing...

I hope the new o-line coach that Martin apparently was very pleased with (https://www.dallascowboys.com/news/martin-solari-bringing-edge-back-to-dallas-ol) isn't so stupid as to put a player that hasn't played a full season in 7 years as the starter. Continuity on the o-line is one of the biggest factors in having a great offensive line. Tyron will miss games, you can book it. Find a starter at LG and leave him in there if at all possible...

 

[EPL0c0]

McGovern was not good at all IMO. I don't really get the idea we got worse or at least significantly worse. However,,,LG was a problem last year and thus is still a problem this year (even if we go our best 5 Tyron will go down and someone else will be needed). I have no concerns about us being as good as we were with McGovern, but I want to be MUCH better.

Edit - I'm not saying he'd be a great starter or anything or that I even want him to be the starter, but if it comes to it due to injury or whatever, I don't think there will be a big drop off from McGovern's play to Edoga's. So I see the floor as somewhat comparable to McGovern but stressing again I'm not happy with status quo there. Maybe one of the rookies steps up and I also expect we still sign another FA OL unless one or more of the kids surprises

Folks (like me) said Williams wasn't good either... dude went MIA and was one of the better Centers in the league.

So was McGovern bad or did coaches in Dallas not use him to the best of his abilities?

 

[Kwyn]

I keep seeing claims that the OLine got worse and there is a huge "hole" at LG.

The only loss was McGovern. If the OLine got radically worse as claimed by CZ, then McGovern must have been a borderline All-Pro.

Note: In some games they alternated McGovern and 40 year old Jason Peters...

In 2021 McGovern started 4 games in place of Connor Williams.
- He was terrible.
- After his 4 starts, they switched back to Conner Penalty Williams.

In 2022 McGovern was somewhere between "good enough" and borderline All-Pro depending on who you ask.

Tyler, Steele and Tyron will all start if healthy.
- That means one of them (probably Tyler) starts at LG.
- Obviously Tyron will eventually miss a game or more with injury issues.

The top options at LG with Tyron out:
- Tyler at LT and Edoga or Farniok at LG.
or
- Waletzko at OG with Tyler at LG.


Farniok: I recently re-reviewed him vs the Bengals (He started 2 games with McGovern out).
- He was "good enough".
- He had many good snaps vs 345 pound DT Josh Tupou.
- He has some good and some bad snaps vs top tier DT DJ Reader.
- Summary: He was generally good physically but made some mistakes while playing next to rookie LT Tyler Smith early in the season.

Edoga:
- Played most (maybe all) games for the Jets at OT. Was a good run blocker but sometimes had issue with Pass blocking.
- Started 1 game last season for the Falcons at LG.
- I reviewed all of his snaps in that game. In my opinion he looked as good or better than McGovern.
- It was only 1 game (Bears). I don't know if the Bears DT are good or bad per se.
https://cowboyszone.com/threads/cowboys-lg-chuma-edoga.510746/page-2#post-12758195

Waletzko:
- My 1st thought when I reviewed his college game footage was "He's a Tyler Smith mini-me".
- Not his physical build, but his play style and on-field demeanor.
- It is not surprising that the same people that drafted Tyler would draft Waletzko.
- He is a freakish athlete. His 9.96 RAS was 6th of 1218 OTs from 1987 to 2022.
- He was already within an NFL weight range when drafted (315).

Free Agent option:
https://cowboyszone.com/threads/cowboys-og-dalton-risner.510850/page-2#post-12758191

Literally no one, except perhaps you, is calling McGovern an all-pro

 

[buybuydandavis]

I keep seeing claims that the OLine got worse and there is a huge "hole" at LG.

The only loss was McGovern. If the OLine got radically worse as claimed by CZ, then McGovern must have been a borderline All-Pro.

Note: In some games they alternated McGovern and 40 year old Jason Peters...

In 2021 McGovern started 4 games in place of Connor Williams.
- He was terrible.
- After his 4 starts, they switched back to Conner Penalty Williams.

In 2022 McGovern was somewhere between "good enough" and borderline All-Pro depending on who you ask.

Tyler, Steele and Tyron will all start if healthy.
- That means one of them (probably Tyler) starts at LG.
- Obviously Tyron will eventually miss a game or more with injury issues.

The top options at LG with Tyron out:
- Tyler at LT and Edoga or Farniok at LG.
or
- Waletzko at OG with Tyler at LG.


Farniok: I recently re-reviewed him vs the Bengals (He started 2 games with McGovern out).
- He was "good enough".
- He had many good snaps vs 345 pound DT Josh Tupou.
- He has some good and some bad snaps vs top tier DT DJ Reader.
- Summary: He was generally good physically but made some mistakes while playing next to rookie LT Tyler Smith early in the season.

Edoga:
- Played most (maybe all) games for the Jets at OT. Was a good run blocker but sometimes had issue with Pass blocking.
- Started 1 game last season for the Falcons at LG.
- I reviewed all of his snaps in that game. In my opinion he looked as good or better than McGovern.
- It was only 1 game (Bears). I don't know if the Bears DT are good or bad per se.
https://cowboyszone.com/threads/cowboys-lg-chuma-edoga.510746/page-2#post-12758195

Waletzko:
- My 1st thought when I reviewed his college game footage was "He's a Tyler Smith mini-me".
- Not his physical build, but his play style and on-field demeanor.
- It is not surprising that the same people that drafted Tyler would draft Waletzko.
- He is a freakish athlete. His 9.96 RAS was 6th of 1218 OTs from 1987 to 2022.
- He was already within an NFL weight range when drafted (315).

Free Agent option:
https://cowboyszone.com/threads/cowboys-og-dalton-risner.510850/page-2#post-12758191

Ah. Rhetorical question. Thought you went insane for a second.

PFF had McGovern with his worst season in 2022. Poor. I would give him ok to poor.

If Waletzko can turn freakiness into play, that's the best outcome by far. He's under contract the longest and if he's the freakiest, he's the guy to give developmental snaps to. He gets the push over Farniok and Edoga. Farniok gets the push over Edoga.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Literally no one, except perhaps you, is calling McGovern an all-pro

People are sure acting like that is what was lost. That was the point.

 

[plasticman]

McGovern was not an All Pro. However, it has always seemed to me that one of the determining factors for improvement along the offensive line is familiarity. O-linemen tend to improve so long as they continue to play along side the players they are familiar with.

There is a bunch of story lines on how an O-lineman was considered a detriment at one point in their career. However, one season it just seems like they put it all together.

I'm talking about guys like Mark Tuinei, Nate Newton, John Gesek, Doug Free, Ronald Leary, and Terence Steele.

Perhaps Farniok or Waletzco will be next.

in any case, that is why it is so important to find your five guys and then stick with them. Experimenting with an offensive line's starting five messes with this familiarity and stunts the process of forming cohesion, the ability to move together like the cogs in a machine.

 

[INCowboysFan]

I hope the new o-line coach that Martin apparently was very pleased with (https://www.dallascowboys.com/news/martin-solari-bringing-edge-back-to-dallas-ol) isn't so stupid as to put a player that hasn't played a full season in 7 years as the starter. Continuity on the o-line is one of the biggest factors in having a great offensive line. Tyron will miss games, you can book it. Find a starter at LG and leave him in there if at all possible...

You think the OL coach is going to have the final say on who starts?

 

[Stash]

People are sure acting like that is what was lost. That was the point.

That’s not the case at all. It’s a Strawman argument, done in an effort to categorize concern about losing a starter as irrational and unwarranted.

 

[Stash]

McGovern was not an All Pro. However, it has always seemed to me that one of the determining factors for improvement along the offensive line is familiarity. O-linemen tend to improve so long as they continue to play along side the players they are familiar with.

There is a bunch of story lines on how an O-lineman was considered a detriment at one point in their career. However, one season it just seems like they put it all together.

I'm talking about guys like Mark Tuinei, Nate Newton, John Gesek, Doug Free, Ronald Leary, and Terence Steele.

Perhaps Farniok or Waletzco will be next.

in any case, that is why it is so important to find your five guys and then stick with them. Experimenting with an offensive line's starting five messes with this familiarity and stunts the process of forming cohesion, the ability to move together like the cogs in a machine.

And this team has now lost their starting left guard for two consecutive seasons.

If it’s Tyler Smith there? No problem. In fact a significant upgrade.

If not? There’s reason for concern.