Was switching to the 4-3 a mistake?

[Alexander]

Yeah I agree with the others stating that Cover 2 is the issue not 4-3/3-4

The plain and simple fact is we are not running a true Tampa 2 though. We are trying practically everything and nothing is working, mainly because the QB can sit back and pick apart a secondary that was overrated to begin with.

The lack of a pass rush is the biggest problem facing this defense, whether it comes from a four man line or not.

 

[Alexander]

The only thing I know is we should have never fired Rob Ryan, he made miracles playing with that defense last year.

He is a lot more aggressive in New Orleans this year than he ever was in Dallas. The blitz concepts he has shown in New Orleans simply were not here last year, injuries or not.

 

[cowboys1981]

When you have no depth on the Dline it'll make any scheme look dismal. Look at last years defense in a 3-4. Same result. I'd rather have a 4-3 scheme vs a 3-4. I just don't like the Tampa for the players we do have. Press corners aren't suited for this zone crap.

 

[Common Sense]

This whole Bass looking like a contributor thing is ridiculous. Everyone looks like a contributor in training camp. Bass is just another name that people lump into the DL injuries to make them seem more severe than they are (they're bad, sure, but they also shouldn't be unexpected given that they are all aging players). Losing Bass wasn't any worse than losing Marvin Austin, Ceasar Rayford, Everett Dawkins or any of the other street free agents that the team has dropped throughout the season.

This roster has been severely mismanaged, and neglecting the DL during a drastic scheme change is a case in point. Who does that? (That's rhetorical. Don't answer it)

 

[jobberone]

Your logic in this post could not have been any more Jonesian. I would swear you were related to them.

So you knew that Spencer and Crawford were going to be injured before the draft. And that Bass even if not injured was worthless as depth. And that Ratliff would not play at all and eventually be released. Congrats to all you hindsighters. You are brilliant and every one else is stupid.

All you and others who spout this fecal matter do is show how little you understand the game and make us wonder how you got your special powers. How am supposed to take this stuff seriously. Now I wouldn't have had a single problem with drafting a pass rusher/DL early on. But I can at least understand why they didn't. You guys want to puff up and say I told you so when you couldn't possibly have foreseen the multiplicity of injuries coming down the road. And I haven't even mentioned Ware who was certainly seen by experts and given the green light to play.

You guys are so awesome that ii is beyond the greatest awesomeness that ever existed. I bow before your prescience oh mighty ones.

 

[jobberone]

This whole Bass looking like a contributor thing is ridiculous. Everyone looks like a contributor in training camp. Bass is just another name that people lump into the DL injuries to make them seem more severe than they are (they're bad, sure, but they also shouldn't be unexpected given that they are all aging players). Losing Bass wasn't any worse than losing Marvin Austin, Ceasar Rayford, Everett Dawkins or any of the other street free agents that the team has dropped throughout the season.

This roster has been severely mismanaged, and neglecting the DL during a drastic scheme change is a case in point. Who does that? (That's rhetorical. Don't answer it)

BS. Bass contributed last year and most everyone but the prescient ones here felt he would be good depth and able to fill in as a spot starter.

 

[jobberone]

The premise of the defensive line was based on Spencer and Rat and that the line would be built on three 30+ year olds and one guy who would be 30 by the end of the season. I agree injuries took their toll, but the brain trust built this defense from the back end, and haven't even done a sterling job of that.

But the bromide no pass rush no pass defense holds true. So while we can mince words over what if, the collective theory on building the defense is flawed for this team. And no amount of blue sky about what could have been changes that.

Again hindsight. You guys just knew Ratliff wouldn't play, Ware would get dinged, Spencer wouldn't play, Crawford wouldn't play, and Bass wouldn't play. That's so beyond absurd that I'm not even going to comment on it again. Sure, the older you get the more likely you are to get injured. But look around the league and see how many 30 and plus year olds are playing. And we haven't even got into the cap implications of not playing them or cutting them. There is only so much resources you can throw at one area of the team. Just prattle on.

Now if you want to discuss the wisdom of resigning Ratliff and franchising Spencer then we can have a legitimate discussion. It's clear that the FO makes mistakes in resigning high priced older veterans. But once you do so then you are basically stuck with them.

 

[Coy]

He is a lot more aggressive in New Orleans this year than he ever was in Dallas. The blitz concepts he has shown in New Orleans simply were not here last year, injuries or not.

I think the injuries played a large role in what he did or didn’t do last year, just take a look at our starting defense for the last 3 or 4 games of the season, laughable.

 

[Common Sense]

BS. Bass contributed last year and most everyone but the prescient ones here felt he would be good depth and able to fill in as a spot starter.

Bass played in two games last year and had half a tackle. He's had more injuries than tackles in his NFL career.

 

[Everlastingxxx]

The end result is proof that it was a mistake switching over to the 4-3. Not only did they not have the starting personnel to run it or depth but they hired a bad coach to run it. Every defensive player has regressed under this system.

 

[TwoDeep3]

Again hindsight. You guys just knew Ratliff wouldn't play, Ware would get dinged, Spencer wouldn't play, Crawford wouldn't play, and Bass wouldn't play. That's so beyond absurd that I'm not even going to comment on it again. Sure, the older you get the more likely you are to get injured. But look around the league and see how many 30 and plus year olds are playing. And we haven't even got into the cap implications of not playing them or cutting them. There is only so much resources you can throw at one area of the team. Just prattle on.

Now if you want to discuss the wisdom of resigning Ratliff and franchising Spencer then we can have a legitimate discussion. It's clear that the FO makes mistakes in resigning high priced older veterans. But once you do so then you are basically stuck with them.

I believe I said the same thing during training camp, Jobber. So this is not hindsight.

If you recall my complaint then was both lines and the lack of building them correctly.

I am not big on I told you so, but I told everyone so back then along with Risen Star who echoed the things I said.

Or to be precise he said the same things. He did not get the idea from me.

 

[kramskoi]

Sure, we're getting the interceptions and flashy defensive plays but our defense is atrocious relative to the past few seasons. So, was it a mistake?

The turnovers simply are not coming with enough frequency to overcome the hideous nature of the defense in general and the secondary in particular. Jerry Jones' idiocy about taking risks is the dumbest thing I have heard this week. He had his risk-taking, blitz-burning defense with Rob Ryan. What did he do? He threw it in the freakin' garbage. I see this on both him and Garrett. They made their own bed and we have confirmation that it is strewn with thumb-tacks and razor blades! My opinion at the beginning of the year was that the defense was tenable, with the caveat that they continued to force turnovers every game. However, turnovers are mostly a fluke thing ... some you can force by stripping and tipping but what they were getting has fallen off since mid-year. What's left is not fit for a hungry dog!

 

[Common Sense]

The team was built for the 3-4, the team drafted/FA for the 3-4. Switching to the 4-3 was a knee-jerk reaction and I suspect to cover up other areas of concern(offense/Garrett).

Having said that, it wouldn't have mattered, lost too many bodies, nagging injuries mixed in with little to no talent. I was expecting a 4-3/3-4 hybrid with man-to-man but we just don't have the talent to accomplish that.

The defense is a mess and can not be fixed this season, might even take a couple more seasons to fix, or at least make it viable.

"Our defense is a 4-3 scheme with 3-4 personnel. It's just utilizing the special talents of our guys." -- Pete Carroll

Also, here's an interesting article about the Seattle defense last year. Spoiler alert, it never was a Tampa 2 defense (even Gruden said the other night that he couldn't see why anyone would still run the Tampa 2). http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2013/1/19/3890928/gus-bradley-defense-leo-position

 

[jobberone]

I believe I said the same thing during training camp, Jobber. So this is not hindsight.

If you recall my complaint then was both lines and the lack of building them correctly.

I am not big on I told you so, but I told everyone so back then along with Risen Star who echoed the things I said.

Or to be precise he said the same things. He did not get the idea from me.

I do recall and I appreciate your post If u remember I and most didn't agree with u then and the only reason ur right is a freak of odds It's factoral five whatever the odds for injury are U expect 1~2 but not five the most u would have drafted is likely one guy and there is no way to think he may not have flopped or been injured too

 

[Kevinicus]

True, but that has only been exposed against elite WRs and passing offenses....and those teams do it to just about every defense. NO, Chicago, and Detroit were the worst, and, surprise surprise, their big, elite WRs beat all of our coverages. Against the less dominant passing offenses, the man coverage has worked well.

And Claiborne was out for 2 of those games, and there was a noticeable drop off on defense when he left due to injury in the 3rd. I think his injuries have been a lot more problematic for the defense than people want to admit.

 

[Future]

And Claiborne was out for 2 of those games, and there was a noticeable drop off on defense when he left due to injury in the 3rd. I think his injuries have been a lot more problematic for the defense than people want to admit.

Agreed...Scandrick has played well enough, but he simply lacks the ball skills to play on the outside consistently.

 

[jobberone]

Agreed...Scandrick has played well enough, but he simply lacks the ball skills to play on the outside consistently.

Actually he's our highest ranked CB. He doesn't have the size and physicality to play big and/or strong outside receivers though. I agree he doesn't need to be on the X or Z or Y

 

[DOUBLE WING]

Let's be real, Kiffin went from having the worst defense in the history of USC and getting fired by his own son, to having the worst defense in the history of the Dallas Cowboys.

This utter destruction was blatantly coming.

Yes. The problem is not necessarily the switch to the 4-3, the problem was who we hired to run it. Kiffin is a fossil and the game has long passed him by. He's playing checkers while everyone else is playing chess.

 

[17yearsandcounting]

Yes. The problem is not necessarily the switch to the 4-3, the problem was who we hired to run it. Kiffin is a fossil and the game has long passed him by. He's playing checkers while everyone else is playing chess.

I still have issues with the 4-3 switch. If it were a new head coach with a specific goal and philosophy, thats awesome.

Howevah...this team just put all of their eggs in Tony Romo's basket. This isnt time to be throwing stuff at the wall and seeing if maybe it works.

 

[Blue Eyed Devil]

What we had
- press corners
- weak safeties
- thin on defensive line
- 2 quality linebackers

What the 4-3 requires
- zone corners
- solid safeties
- defensive line that can get there with 4
- 3 quality linebackers

Of course it was a mistake, we didn't have any of the personnel we needed.