Washington's Rookies > Yours

[method man]

We managed to get ourselves quite a nice draft class. Rocky is a very smart LB who will be a stud. In Day 2, we got a guy who some believe should have gotten a 2nd round grade and has 1st round talent with our 5th round pick. Then, we got ourselves a very nice contributor on special teams in Reed Doughty. With our 6th rounder, we got Kendrick Golston who really impressed coaches at our rookie camp. With our first 7th rounder, we got Kili Lefotu who is a very nice run blocker who we will groom for the center spot. With our final 7th, we got a real steal in Kevin Simon. He was the no. 1 rated LB coming out of high school but had some medical problems in college. Our UDFA class was very impressive as well. We got Spencer Havner, OLB from UCLA who should have gone in the middle rounds, Manaia Brown, and Chijekoge Oyenegecha from Oklahoma. The guy we are most excited about is Jessie Lumsden, a guy we signed earlier this year, who we feel will be very very impressive.

 

[silverbear]

We managed to get ourselves quite a nice draft class.

Actually, you guys had arguably the worst draft in the league this year...

Rocky is a very smart LB who will be a stud.

Only problem is, the Skins traded up for him, giving up a 2nd rounder next year, when nobody else out there had him going before the Skins' original 2nd round pick, the 53rd overall...

Then there's his negatives, best summed up by this blurb from NFL Draft Countdown:

Inconsistent and doesn't always play up to his talent...Takes bad angles...Is only average in coverage...Needs to get stronger...Relies heavily on his athleticism to recover from mistakes...Can be too aggressive at times...Has dealt with knee, shoulder and back injuries...Does not really have a ton of starting experience.

Most telling of all, I think, are the injuries... on pure talent alone, McIntosh looks like the kind of linebacker that Gregg Williams is partial to, and I wouldn't be surprised if the coach gets the maximum out of Rocky's potential... it also wouldn't surprise me if Rocky battles the injury bug the way he did in college...

In Day 2, we got a guy who some believe should have gotten a 2nd round grade and has 1st round talent with our 5th round pick.

ROTFLMAO... I have seen a coupla different websites that rated Anthony Montgomery one of the biggest REACHES in this draft, even in the second round... rather than being considered a 2nd rounder with 1st round talent, as you've suggested, he was rated almost-certain NOT to be drafted...

He was rated the THIRTY THIRD best defensive tackle on the board by NFL Draft Countdown... some "2nd rounder with 1st round talent", LOL... indeed, that source says that in some NFL circles, he is being considered as a possible conversion project to OFFENSIVE tackle... generally speaking, NFL teams don't contemplate moving DTs who have 1st round talent to the offensive line...

By saying what you just said about this stiff, you've just proven that you're nothing more than an Extremeskins-style homer, who automatically puffs up players that the Skins have signed, while downgrading every other player out there...

But please, if you can offer some quotes from reputable sources claiming that Montgomery was indeed a "2nd rounder with 1st round talent", I'd be just FASCINATED to read those quotes...

Then, we got ourselves a very nice contributor on special teams in Reed Doughty.

Doughty was a player I really, really liked going into this draft, and hoped the Boys had on their draft radar... his only problem is he isn't real fast for a safety (4.7 second 40)...

With our 6th rounder, we got Kendrick Golston who really impressed coaches at our rookie camp.

Wow, only true SUPERSTARS impress coaches in no-pads workouts, against a plethora of undrafted rookie free agents... LOL...

Again, I offer you this critique from NFL Draft Countdown:

Was not very productive during his career...Often times plays too high and with poor leverage...Has dealt with some injuries and durability is a concern...Ran into some trouble off-the-field and character is a concern...Probably an underachiever.

Another injury-prone player, and as an added bonus, another guy who gets in trouble off the field... maybe he'll become Sean Taylor's newest best buddy...

With our first 7th rounder, we got Kili Lefotu who is a very nice run blocker who we will groom for the center spot.

He's such a stud, he wasn't invited to the combine, he wasn't invited to ANY postseason all-star games... he was also rated as one of the biggest reaches in this draft by one website I saw... if the Skins hadn't drafted him, it's highly unlikely that any other team would have... his plus is that he has experience at guard, tackle and center in his college career, always an advantage for someone who would be a backup offensive lineman in the NFL... and the weird thing is, even though he doesn't seem to be real good, he's probably their best candidate to be the backup at center (if only because the Skins don't have ANYBODY else capable of playing the position worth a hammered crap)...

With our final 7th, we got a real steal in Kevin Simon. He was the no. 1 rated LB coming out of high school but had some medical problems in college.

The Cowboys brought him in and worked him out, but he was too small to play ILB for them... he might fare better in the Skins' scheme... of course, there's a REASON why an otherwise reasonably talented linebacker fell to the 7th round, and you touched on it-- seems like Simon is ALWAYS injured... as NFL Draft Countdown put it, he has basically missed 3 full seasons in his college career due to 2 knee injuries and an ankle injury...

Then there's the problem of his mediocre to bad size and speed... I certainly don't think a 4.9 40 linebacker has the speed needed to succeed in the Skins' system... yet again, NFL Draft Countdown offers the definitive rebuttal to your witless homerism:

Will be a risky pick and has a very high bust factor...he is very much a boom or bust type of prospect...Let the buyer beware.

Our UDFA class was very impressive as well. We got Spencer Havner, OLB from UCLA who should have gone in the middle rounds,

Yeah, he was your best UDRFA signing, by a fairly wide margin... again, though, the Skins seemed to be focusing on players who got hurt a lot in college, which is to me a curious philosophy...

Manaia Brown,

To quote NFL Draft Countdown one more time:

An underachiever who doesn't play up to his potential...Has an inconsistent motor and disappears for stretches...Is not said to be a hard worker...Toughness has been questioned...Has dealt with some injuries and durability is a big concern

Another with durability issues...

and Chijekoge Oyenegecha from Oklahoma.

It's a tough name, but if the guy's gonna be a Skin, you probably ought to learn to spell it correctly (Chijioke Onyenegecha)... can't wait to see the Skins' announcers try to PRONOUNCE that name, LOL...

He's also a guy who started all of 13 games in his college career... another who gets that dreaded "underachiever" label from NFL Draft Countdown...

The guy we are most excited about is Jessie Lumsden, a guy we signed earlier this year, who we feel will be very very impressive.

The same Lumsden who tried out for Seattle last summer, and got cut, then went back to the CFL... do you REALLY think ol' Jesse will be a threat to cut into Portis' playing time??

It's a telling comment that you're most excited about a guy who will likely never see any playing time for the Skins, even if Portis did get injured... in fact, I'd consider him a VERY long shot to even make the 53 man roster...

Go back and reread the critiques I've offered of the players you mentioned, and you'll be struck by how often those players have been labelled as "injury-prone", or "underachievers"... which is, of course, one big reason why many of the pundits assigning teams draft grades are ranking the Skins at the bottom of the pack...

Your draft SUCKED, plain and simple... I'd take the time and effort to contrast it to the Cowboys' (which wasn't their best one here lately, but wasn't bad either), but there's really no point, not when I've already demonstrated pretty clearly that the Skins had a thoroughly lousy draft...

Perhaps you should stop swallowin' the bovine fecal matter they're shovelin' out at Commanders Park these days, and go look those players up on some IMPARTIAL websites... that would keep you from making a total fool of yourself, woofin' about what a great draft the Skins had...

 

[vicjagger]

Excellent retort, SB!

 

[silverbear]

Excellent retort, SB!

I wonder if ol' method will bother to respond, or if he'll be too embarrassed that a Cowboys fan seems to know more about his team than he does...

I am constantly amazed at how many of the Skins' fan base really don't know a lot about football... oh, I have run into a few exceptions over the years (some of whom post in here, and are always good for an enjoyable read), but way too many of them seem to be casual fans at best...

You wouldn't think that such casual football fans would choose to hang out on football message boards... I can only conclude that guys like method are trying to learn something about the game, which is why they come a-trolling...

 

[riggo]

Inconsistent and doesn't always play up to his talent...Takes bad angles...Is only average in coverage...Needs to get stronger...Relies heavily on his athleticism to recover from mistakes...Can be too aggressive at times...Has dealt with knee, shoulder and back injuries...Does not really have a ton of starting experience.

he's had injuries, which isnt good. the lack of starting experience is a head scratcher. his bio says he started the last 2 years- 26 total starts out of 46 games played. ???

as far as negatives, just about every player has them.

Carpenterwas a very frustrating linebacker to evaluate, because he no doubt has the size, strength, playing speed and athleticism to be a productive all-around linebacker, but he is not one now, and he is unlikely to ever become one. While he tests out like a warrior, his lack of instincts hinder his ability to play up to his off-field workouts -- he is often a beat late moving at the snap and lacks the explosiveness to catch up once he loses a step. When he is aggressive with his hands, he does a good job jolting blockers, gets arm extension and can shed and get free to make plays against runs directed at him -- he has shown the ability to do a good job of maintaining force responsibility. Overall, Carpenter is going to test out big time and will be drafted higher than rated because of it, but he will struggle to become the big-play impact linebacker that is expected of such high draft picks. He will develop into a good starting linebacker, who like many current NFL starters, makes a lot of tackles chasing down plays in pursuit, but does not make big plays to impact games. Carpenter broke an ankle against Michigan, so the ankle will need to pass tests before he is completely cleared.

not likely to ever become a productive all around linebacker, injury problems, but he tests well.

i've said it before- its a crapshoot. unless anyone has a crystal ball, nobody knows......

 

[mschmidt64]

i've said it before- its a crapshoot. unless anyone has a crystal ball, nobody knows......

I know, and I don't need a crystal ball.

Your draft class sucks. Our undrafted free agent haul is better than your whole draft class. Aside from Rocky you didn't draft one player who would make the Dallas Cowboys' team. We managed to find 4-5 who could possibly make it AFTER the draft was over.

Seriously.

Tell me which DT that no one had ever heard of before makes the roster over Thomas Johnson. Or which safety we cut. We've already got a better version of the white safety you drafted, his name is Justin Beriault, and HE'S on the bubble.

Aside from Rocky, who is not better than Bobby Carpenter, you didn't get a single player that would make our team. And that's not an opinion.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

We managed to get ourselves quite a nice draft class. Rocky is a very smart LB who will be a stud. In Day 2, we got a guy who some believe should have gotten a 2nd round grade and has 1st round talent with our 5th round pick. Then, we got ourselves a very nice contributor on special teams in Reed Doughty. With our 6th rounder, we got Kendrick Golston who really impressed coaches at our rookie camp. With our first 7th rounder, we got Kili Lefotu who is a very nice run blocker who we will groom for the center spot. With our final 7th, we got a real steal in Kevin Simon. He was the no. 1 rated LB coming out of high school but had some medical problems in college. Our UDFA class was very impressive as well. We got Spencer Havner, OLB from UCLA who should have gone in the middle rounds, Manaia Brown, and Chijekoge Oyenegecha from Oklahoma. The guy we are most excited about is Jessie Lumsden, a guy we signed earlier this year, who we feel will be very very impressive.

just one question:

how many of the top 100 players in this draft did you take?

 

[riggo]

I know, and I don't need a crystal ball.

Your draft class sucks. Our undrafted free agent haul is better than your whole draft class. Aside from Rocky you didn't draft one player who would make the Dallas Cowboys' team. We managed to find 4-5 who could possibly make it AFTER the draft was over.

Seriously.

Tell me which DT that no one had ever heard of before makes the roster over Thomas Johnson. Or which safety we cut. We've already got a better version of the white safety you drafted, his name is Justin Beriault, and HE'S on the bubble.

Aside from Rocky, who is not better than Bobby Carpenter, you didn't get a single player that would make our team. And that's not an opinion.

could you tell me how you arrived at your conclusion that your undrafted free agents are better than the skins draftees?

edit- you did say that winston justice was the 10th best player in the draft. maybe you know something that NFL scouts, GM's and owners dont?

 

[peplaw06]

Washington's Rookies > Yours

 

[Yeagermeister]

The Commanders had draft picks?

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

We managed to get ourselves quite a nice draft class. Rocky is a very smart LB who will be a stud. In Day 2, we got a guy who some believe should have gotten a 2nd round grade and has 1st round talent with our 5th round pick. Then, we got ourselves a very nice contributor on special teams in Reed Doughty. With our 6th rounder, we got Kendrick Golston who really impressed coaches at our rookie camp. With our first 7th rounder, we got Kili Lefotu who is a very nice run blocker who we will groom for the center spot. With our final 7th, we got a real steal in Kevin Simon. He was the no. 1 rated LB coming out of high school but had some medical problems in college. Our UDFA class was very impressive as well. We got Spencer Havner, OLB from UCLA who should have gone in the middle rounds, Manaia Brown, and Chijekoge Oyenegecha from Oklahoma. The guy we are most excited about is Jessie Lumsden, a guy we signed earlier this year, who we feel will be very very impressive.

Well...Gotta say you are positive, I will give you that.

However I think it might be in your best interest to choose another method...man.

 

[mschmidt64]

could you tell me how you arrived at your conclusion that your undrafted free agents are better than the skins draftees?

Didn't I already explain it?

None of your crapbag draftees would make our roster, except Rocky (If you want to know how I know this.... try watching more football, it'll come to you).

Furthermore, guys like Parham, Hoyte, Summers, etc -- our UDFA class -- were all excellent college performers and showed they belong, and some of them WILL make the roster.

The Commanders reached again and again on players with huge question marks and little production in an attempt to beat the system and unearth developmental gems but all you got was garbage. Dallas went through this years and years ago, so we know what it looks like. You try to copy us in everything else you do, now you're even doing it with crappy drafting. We've had our share of Dwayne Goodriches and Kareem Larrimores and Matt Lehrs and Markus Steeles and Jamar Martins and Pete Hunters -- underachievers at decent programs or small schools that for some reason our front office thought would be producers but they never were in the pros.

You won't believe me because you've already convinced yourself that your front office knows something we don't, but you are wrong on that count, too. I'm telling you now: Not one of those players you drafted would make the Dallas Cowboys roster (- Rocky).

Your team doesn't know how to draft in the middle and late rounds, and instead of lapping it up like a zombie you should be outraged. If the past five years haven't shown this to you yet, you won't ever learn it, and there is no point in continuing this conversation. Half the players you got weren't even ranked -- but everyone else is wrong, the Skins were right, you'll say. Maybe if you had one shred of evidence of this team being able to unearth substance late we could look past all the signs that say your draft class sucks, and give you the benefit of the doubt -- but there is no evidence to support such an assumption. Right now, it looks like your front office just screwed up the most important part of the year, again.

You can post all the homer spin you want from here on out, but here are the facts: Your draft class sucked and everyone but your fan base knows it.

What's more -- if these bums make YOUR roster, you should be worried about your depth. It means you have none at LB, DL, and OL.

 

[riggo]

it seems like you know more about drafting than many NFL GM's. do you have a site or anything about past drafts and how you predicted how players would pan out in the NFL? you may be the next mel kiper. that's not a bad gig.

 

[mschmidt64]

it seems like you know more about drafting than many NFL GM's. do you have a site or anything about past drafts and how you predicted how players would pan out in the NFL? you may be the next mel kiper. that's not a bad gig.

Wow, good one. You could have just typed, "I don't believe you."

See, that's only four words, instead of 46. You took all that time trying to be funny but it was just dumb.

Luckily, I managed to translate that disaster of a paragraph and wouldn't you know it, I already addressed that contingency. Look:

You won't believe me because you've already convinced yourself that your front office knows something we don't, but you are wrong on that count, too. I'm telling you now: Not one of those players you drafted would make the Dallas Cowboys roster (- Rocky).

See?

I already knew you weren't gonna believe me, because I know Skins fans generally display football aptitude on par with about a 6 year old, and thus they believe anything the parent figure says (the team's propaganda machine).

Now, maybe you like drafting inferior talent that is so bad that it wouldn't even make the roster of your most hated rival, but that doesn't strike me as a good way to get ahead of them. And I assure you, even if you question whether I know more than you about the Commanders, which I probably do, I DEFINITELY know more than you about the Cowboys. And none of these players you drafted would make the Cowboys roster.

That speaks volumes and there is no way you can refute it, at all, because it's a fact. It'd be like you claiming that Demetric Evans would make our roster ahead of Ellis, Canty, Spears, Ratliff, and Hatcher. Anybody with a clue would know such a claim is a total fallacy.

Speaking of Evans.... I hope you like him. You just drafted about six players who are no better than he is.

Anyway... enjoy your roster full of talent that is roughly the equivalent of players that the Cowboys will be cutting in July.

 

[PAISAN247]

:dissskin:

 

[KINGBRICE_28]

Method man.....yer a heck of a sport but ya got pwnt.....esp b/c ya never came back.....

As for this whole draft comparison.....who cares......everyone knows we build through FA and dallas builds through the draft.......

Obviously BOTH sides are working fine the past 2 seasons.......

both teams HAD rings doing it but neither team does recently so I guess we're back where we started saying , wait till season......

 

[silverbear]

Method man.....yer a heck of a sport but ya got pwnt.....esp b/c ya never came back.....

Just another drive-by troll, who probably doesn't take his own BS seriously...

I hope the other Skins fans who have posted to this thread understand that I didn't write what I wrote just to piss y'all off, I was just responding to a troll... not that I don't stand behind the arguments I made, I just hope that I would have made them a bit more diplomatically if I was responding to one of y'all...

 

[riggo]

Just another drive-by troll, who probably doesn't take his own BS seriously...

I hope the other Skins fans who have posted to this thread understand that I didn't write what I wrote just to piss y'all off, I was just responding to a troll... not that I don't stand behind the arguments I made, I just hope that I would have made them a bit more diplomatically if I was responding to one of y'all...

that's a nice thing to say, silver. you'd better watch out- you're losing your edge...

 

[silverbear]

that's a nice thing to say, silver. you'd better watch out- you're losing your edge...

Aw, I'll still be able to slice and dice the trolls, don't worry about that...

But over these past few years online, I have found some fans of other teams that I find both reasonable, and enjoyable to talk (even argue) with... so when I get deliberately provocative toward one of the trolls, I do sometimes worry that my hyperbole will wind up offending some folks I really didn't want to offend...

That's why I periodically feel the need for the sort of disclaimer I put out there a few posts back... IOW, don't mind me when I'm baitin' trolls, LOL...

 

[method man]

lol i totally forgot about this thread in the first place. as you can see i don't exactly post here often. you don't get it do you? when we find players like this http://www.nfldraftalmanac.com/index.php?c=2&a=634, you know that you have had a good draft despite what idiots like kiper say. corey chavous, who many consider the smartest NFL player, called Montgomery one of his 3 Day 2 draftees that will be a star. montgomery went totally under the radar and was going up draft boards. i think this is the type of steal pick you take in the 5th round. you can be sure that if gregg williams is going to reach for a certain player, he feels that he can mold him into a solid NFL player. if u did do ur homework instead of slurping carpenter, you woulda known that Golston slipped because of some off-the-field problems. Under Joe Gibbs, no player except Sean Taylor has had off-the-field problems. You want an example of how Gibbs controls his players? Look at Smoot in Washington and Smoot in Minny. If kiper were such an expert, then why isn't he a head scout for some NFL team now?

When we trade high picks for a draftee, we do it because we are sure that he is our type of player. After all, we traded a 2nd and a 5th for Chris Cooley, who your coach said would be a career backup,