We are compromised

[America's Cowboy]

They’re certainly better than the rest.

9-7 teams are just barely above average. I’m not sure I’d define them as good. That’s subjective.

The iggles fell in that category last year, yet they won it all.

 

[Diehardblues]

The iggles fell in that category last year, yet they won it all.

You really should use the Internet before responding. Egirls were 13-3 last year on their way to winning it all.

 

[DenCWBY]

Dak, Garrett, and Linehan are catching a ton of flack— and a lot of it is earned. They all have their issues. But underneath all of it is a frustrating truth that is staring us in the face and has undermined this season:

The OL has failed to deliver this year.

Frederick being on IR is just a huge loss, and we have in essence replaced an elite player with an adequate player at the most critical position on OL.

Due to injuries— neither Tyron nor Zack are playing elite football. Their injuries have diminished their effectiveness over the stretch.

Connor lacks the bulk and strength at this point to be effective. Sua Filo is an above average backup that has limitations. Same with Fleming.

The bottom line is we want and expect 2016 offensive production— but we just don’t have the same horses and production from the OL that we had that year.

We are barely scraping by at this point— and Dak's inability to handle pressure well, make quick throws, or improvise and gunsling further hamstring this offense.

Throw in uncreative, predictable playcalling and you get the cluster-cuss we are witnessing at times this year.

It is frustrating but the bottom line is this: what we are trotting out at OL right now is compromising the entire offense. It hurts us the most with inefficiency in the red zone and bad penalties.

Anyway— IMO, had we had a healthy OL this year, a lot of our issues on offense would not be as pronounced as they have been.

This

 

[Diehardblues]

Hmm? Well, I do believe you said Aaron Rodgers and his Packers were your favorites to win it all this year?

They were definitely one of my favorites. I also liked the Rams and Saints.

As a matter of fact I said I thought the Saints would have beat the Egirls if not for the Miracle in Minneapolis.

But no doubt any year Rodgers is standing they have been a playoff team and serious contender until this year.

 

[OmerV]

I'm sorry but if losing your Center is the worst injury you have and you can't adjust, then your coaching staff sucks.

That's a bit of an unfair statement because it's not just the center. We are also playing the backup LG, and both the RG and LT have missed time and have been hobbled even when playing.

I'm not saying it isn't the job of the team to find a way to overcome injuries, because obviously every team has to find a way to do that, but I am saying the O-Line situation can't be summed up as just an injury to the center.

 

[Diehardblues]

That's a bit of an unfair statement because it's not just the center. We are also playing the backup LG, and both the RG and LT have missed time and have been hobbled even when playing.

I'm not saying it isn't the job of the team to find a way to overcome injuries, because obviously every team has to find a way to do that, but I am saying the O-Line situation can't be summed up as just an injury to the center.

No doubt we don’t have our All World OL. But we still have one of the best OL in NFL despite the issues we’ve had. Most teams would drool over our 2 Pro Bowlers despite their lingering injuries.

If we need an All World OL with Elliott something wrong. And surely Dakturd doesn’t need it too. Or does he? Lol

 

[OmerV]

No doubt we don’t have our All World OL. But we still have one of the best OL in NFL despite the issues we’ve had. Most teams would drool over our 2 Pro Bowlers despite their lingering injuries.

If we need an All World OL with Elliott something wrong. And surely Dakturd doesn’t need it too. Or does he? Lol

I would disagree that this season we have had one of the best O-Lines in the NFL. We've had a career backup starting at center all season, and he was actually supposed to be the backup to the backup before Mark Ma rtin got hurt. We had to pull our current LG off the waiver wire in September, and Conner Williams had to shift over to RG for a game and a half, and Flemming has had to start 2 games at LT. As good as Zach Martin and Tyron Smith are when healthy, they aren't enough to make this a great O-Line with so many back ups, and backups to backups playing - plus, neither has enjoyed a healthy season. As for Collins, the reality is he is decent, but he is not an outstanding player.

I'm not saying we need an all-world O-Line, but I do think it's off base to say we have had one of the best O-Line's in football this season.

 

[Thomas82]

Dak, Garrett, and Linehan are catching a ton of flack— and a lot of it is earned. They all have their issues. But underneath all of it is a frustrating truth that is staring us in the face and has undermined this season:

The OL has failed to deliver this year.

Frederick being on IR is just a huge loss, and we have in essence replaced an elite player with an adequate player at the most critical position on OL.

Due to injuries— neither Tyron nor Zack are playing elite football. Their injuries have diminished their effectiveness over the stretch.

Connor lacks the bulk and strength at this point to be effective. Sua Filo is an above average backup that has limitations. Same with Fleming.

The bottom line is we want and expect 2016 offensive production— but we just don’t have the same horses and production from the OL that we had that year.

We are barely scraping by at this point— and Dak's inability to handle pressure well, make quick throws, or improvise and gunsling further hamstring this offense.

Throw in uncreative, predictable playcalling and you get the cluster-cuss we are witnessing at times this year.

It is frustrating but the bottom line is this: what we are trotting out at OL right now is compromising the entire offense. It hurts us the most with inefficiency in the red zone and bad penalties.

Anyway— IMO, had we had a healthy OL this year, a lot of our issues on offense would not be as pronounced as they have been.

I couldn't have said it better.

 

[RD21]

Rodgers would light it up behind this OL and run game support.

This would be a Super Bowl team with Rodgers behind center. Even with Opey, & Co....

 

[Diehardblues]

I would disagree that this season we have had one of the best O-Lines in the NFL. We've had a career backup starting at center all season, and he was actually supposed to be the backup to the backup before Mark Ma rtin got hurt. We had to pull our current LG off the waiver wire in September, and Conner Williams had to shift over to RG for a game and a half, and Flemming has had to start 2 games at LT. As good as Zach Martin and Tyron Smith are when healthy, they aren't enough to make this a great O-Line with so many back ups, and backups to backups playing - plus, neither has enjoyed a healthy season. As for Collins, the reality is he is decent, but he is not an outstanding player.

I'm not saying we need an all-world O-Line, but I do think it's off base to say we have had one of the best O-Line's in football this season.

Ok . Then where would you rank this OL with still 2 starting Pro Bowlers ?

Upper tier in NFL, average or bottom tier?

 

[OmerV]

Ok . Then where would you rank this OL with still 2 starting Pro Bowlers ?

Upper tier in NFL, average or bottom tier?

First, Pro-Bowl isn't the end all be all. There is a popularity aspect of the voting, plus, especially with O-Linemen there can be an element of familiarity with the voting since there is limited statistical evidence to judge from. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting Martin and Smith aren't high quality players, I'm just saying they have been banged up some this year, and this probably isn't among their top seasons. Second, even with two high quality players that doesn't change the fact that they have missed games, and other positions have been relying on back ups and even 3rd teamers to get by. And finally, it's pretty far fetched to think any of us are expert enough on every O-Line across the NFL to create a fair ranking. We see RBs and receivers and QBs across the NFL because they have the ball in their hands and the camera follows the ball, but are any of us really studying the O-Lines of every team? All I know is the O-Line has seemed very average this year. Dak has gotten considerably more pressure from opposing pass rushes than in the past, and although Zeke is having a strong year at RB, it seems the stats aren't built by consistently run after run gaining yards, but rather by several short or no gains followed by 8-12 yard gains. In other words, it doesn't seem that we have many possessions where just pounding the rock works with the O-line dominating to the point every run seems to be for 4-5 yards or more. The running game seems to come more in spurts.

 

[TheCount]

And all this points to reasons why Jerry will keep everything the same over the off season.
Nothing will change.

I will be shocked if Linehan returns.

Garrett's safe because he's going to use Linehan as a human shield, but someone has to answer for our league worst red zone offense.

 

[OmerV]

I will be shocked if Linehan returns.

Garrett's safe because he's going to use Linehan as a human shield, but someone has to answer for our league worst red zone offense.

"Using Linehan as a human shield" isn't why Garrett will be safe. Garrett will be safe because Jerry desperately wants Garrett to be his version of Tom Landry, and Jerry will cling to any sign of hope - such as making the playoffs. The banged up O-Line will largely be what Jerry uses to excuse the anemic offense.

 

[gjkoeppen]

Maybe. I certainly can see Garrett staying especially if we win the division and do anything in the playoffs.

Regardless of differing opinions about Garrett— a 5 game winning streak is impressive. The players are playing hard for him with a few exceptions.

However— Linehan may still get canned and a new OC, and a healthy OL may be enough to recalibrate and optimize the offense— and with a high-ceiling D, we may be in good shape next year.

If we miss the playoffs— I think Garrett is gone. Sitting at 8-5 and losing 3 straight would be an epic collapse bc it would involve losing to two teams with losing records.

Don’t see JJ rolling with that.

Where as I agree with much of your first post, I find it funny that you disregarded the main point in your second post - the O-line. If, that huge word, IF the Cowboys do fail to win the NFC East with a total collapse, the O-line just may be the major culprit for it. With having film of how Indy beat that line, the remaining to teams will probably try the same tactics. Now I don't think the Cowboys will lose either game if for no other reason than I don't think the defense will have 2 more games like the Indy game, missing tackles and blowing some coverages. The Cowboys will still have the same O-line that is nowhere close to the 2016 line.

 

[Hawkeye19]

Where as I agree with much of your first post, I find it funny that you disregarded the main point in your second post - the O-line. If, that huge word, IF the Cowboys do fail to win the NFC East with a total collapse, the O-line just may be the major culprit for it. With having film of how Indy beat that line, the remaining to teams will probably try the same tactics. Now I don't think the Cowboys will lose either game if for no other reason than I don't think the defense will have 2 more games like the Indy game, missing tackles and blowing some coverages. The Cowboys will still have the same O-line that is nowhere close to the 2016 line.

It won’t matter whose fault the collapse would be technically... the coaching staff would pay the price for getting to 8-5 and then having a total collapse down the stretch.

They have been content to roll with the current backups... and they have been suspect. Is there no other moves they can make to improve the roster? No way to coach up the guys they do have to get the most they can from who they do have? No other roster combos that could help stop the bleeding?

What about Collins to LG, Fleming to RT? If they collapse— would it be certain the staff had done everything they possibly could have done to succeed?

So— yes, the OL is the main culprit to our offensive struggles. And yes— the coaching staff is failing to adequately handle that adversity IMO— and if they fail to win the division— they should be canned

 

[Diehardblues]

First, Pro-Bowl isn't the end all be all. There is a popularity aspect of the voting, plus, especially with O-Linemen there can be an element of familiarity with the voting since there is limited statistical evidence to judge from. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting Martin and Smith aren't high quality players, I'm just saying they have been banged up some this year, and this probably isn't among their top seasons. Second, even with two high quality players that doesn't change the fact that they have missed games, and other positions have been relying on back ups and even 3rd teamers to get by. And finally, it's pretty far fetched to think any of us are expert enough on every O-Line across the NFL to create a fair ranking. We see RBs and receivers and QBs across the NFL because they have the ball in their hands and the camera follows the ball, but are any of us really studying the O-Lines of every team? All I know is the O-Line has seemed very average this year. Dak has gotten considerably more pressure from opposing pass rushes than in the past, and although Zeke is having a strong year at RB, it seems the stats aren't built by consistently run after run gaining yards, but rather by several short or no gains followed by 8-12 yard gains. In other words, it doesn't seem that we have many possessions where just pounding the rock works with the O-line dominating to the point every run seems to be for 4-5 yards or more. The running game seems to come more in spurts.

OL “ seemed very average this year”.

Then how would rate our QB? Upper tier, average or bottom tier?

 

[gjkoeppen]

It won’t matter whose fault the collapse would be technically... the coaching staff would pay the price for getting to 8-5 and then having a total collapse down the stretch.

They have been content to roll with the current backups... and they have been suspect. Is there no other moves they can make to improve the roster? No way to coach up the guys they do have to get the most they can from who they do have? No other roster combos that could help stop the bleeding?

What about Collins to LG, Fleming to RT? If they collapse— would it be certain the staff had done everything they possibly could have done to succeed?

So— yes, the OL is the main culprit to our offensive struggles. And yes— the coaching staff is failing to adequately handle that adversity IMO— and if they fail to win the division— they should be canned

The coaches can only go with the talent they have. The trading deadline had past so even if there was a lineman they would want they couldn't get him and even if they could is that lineman going to come in and be better than what they have with no time to work with the rest of the line and know the playbook? Is there a BETTER free agent lineman sitting out there? At this point in the season many teams are thin in different areas. I was watching a game this last weekend where a team had 7 linemen left on the roster and 2 of them went down with injuries during that game. If another one went down they would have had to get really creative on the line. You say that there's no way to coach up the current players but you think that bringing in someone new that doesn't know the playbook and what their assignments would be could be coached up in the little time left. I trust professional coaches decisions over any wannabe coach fan's recommendations.
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[ElGatoGrande]

That's a bit of an unfair statement because it's not just the center. We are also playing the backup LG, and both the RG and LT have missed time and have been hobbled even when playing.

I'm not saying it isn't the job of the team to find a way to overcome injuries, because obviously every team has to find a way to do that, but I am saying the O-Line situation can't be summed up as just an injury to the center.

I think there's a forgotten injury in there,,,, the FA guard we lost in preseason (Marcus Martin) that should have been starting ahead of Connor. So technically they're been running third and fourth string guards, backup center, and a hobbled left tackle all season. Add to that a QB that doesn't handle pressure well and it's a miracle that they're even in the playoffs.

 

[silvrNblue]

Dak’s mobility should help him out but he’s a statue in the pocket.

And who do you blame for that? Id put no more then 10% the rest i blame that moron linehan, im pretty sure 90 % of his 5 page playbook are all pocket style passes... he is misusing Daks strengths, or plain ignoring them in an attempt to make Prescott into something we all know he is not...a pocket passer

 

[gjkoeppen]

OL “ seemed very average this year”.

Then how would rate our QB? Upper tier, average or bottom tier?

You seem awfully hung up on where people rank things. To answer 2 of your ranking questions. The O-line has been average at best. To many announcers talk about this line but are still giving kudos thinking about the 2016 line which it's not. Smith has started to turn into a holding machine. Was it the colts game he had THREE holding penalties and then 2 more against the bucs. Now I understand he's been playing hurt but that still doesn't erase the holding calls. We keep hearing that with the off season Williams will be able to bulk up and get some more strength which tells me that he's not gig and strong enough to be a starting lineman in the NFL. Looney has filled in pretty good most of the time but he's not Frederick. Martin also has been playing hurt which leads us to the line being average at best.

Now Prescott. He had a great rookie season that set his bar high but unfortunately for him that great line he had as a rookie was never the same which also affected the running game which that has had an impact and puts more pressure on Prescott. Yes there have been times when he's hung on to the ball to long and has taken sacks but there are 2 points to be made about that. First, rather than trying to shoot it into tight windows he has hung on to the ball waiting and hoping a receiver will uncover. I'd rather he do that then throw the ball into tight spots and run a much higher risk of it betting picked off. Second, as what was pointed out by one of the former coaches that now is on TV said that all to often there's been a big push up the middle and the defensive ends have been playing as to not be pushed past Prescott leaving no escape route to scramble from. Defenses have been doing a good job of keeping Prescott in the pocket that eventually collapses, often so quick he has little or no time to go through his reads. Do mostly because of the line I rate Prescott as average but believe he has the tools and talent to be a good QB. Here when the discussion turns to Prescott the names Brady, Rodgers and Brees come up as who Prescott is not but they also don't say that those QB's have how many years of experience and Prescott is in just his 3rd season. Yes those QB's are much more accurate than Prescott but that's something that can be worked on and getting a line like 2016's line would work wonders.
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