We are compromised

[northerncowboynation]

Dak, Garrett, and Linehan are catching a ton of flack— and a lot of it is earned. They all have their issues. But underneath all of it is a frustrating truth that is staring us in the face and has undermined this season:

The OL has failed to deliver this year.

Frederick being on IR is just a huge loss, and we have in essence replaced an elite player with an adequate player at the most critical position on OL.

Due to injuries— neither Tyron nor Zack are playing elite football. Their injuries have diminished their effectiveness over the stretch.

Connor lacks the bulk and strength at this point to be effective. Sua Filo is an above average backup that has limitations. Same with Fleming.

The bottom line is we want and expect 2016 offensive production— but we just don’t have the same horses and production from the OL that we had that year.

We are barely scraping by at this point— and Dak's inability to handle pressure well, make quick throws, or improvise and gunsling further hamstring this offense.

Throw in uncreative, predictable playcalling and you get the cluster-cuss we are witnessing at times this year.

It is frustrating but the bottom line is this: what we are trotting out at OL right now is compromising the entire offense. It hurts us the most with inefficiency in the red zone and bad penalties.

Anyway— IMO, had we had a healthy OL this year, a lot of our issues on offense would not be as pronounced as they have been.

Totally agree Hawkeye. Honestly think that if the 2018 offense had the 2014, 2015 or 2016 O-line the red zone woes would be much less woeful and we would be in the hunt for an NFC Championship. What makes me believe that is we have the same QB, same OC and play calling and same HC. Different TE's yes but this group has produced as many yards as Witt did last year so that isn't a significant factor. I think Witt had 5 TD's last year and 3 were inside the red zone so that isn't significant either. Cooper has more than replaced Dez's numbers without the trouble and attitude.

Look at it this way, 60% of the O-line has been made up of backups every Sunday and in the last game 80% were backups. That isn't even touching the fact that Tyron is not the LT that he was 3, 4, 5 years ago and Zach is dealing with knee issues that probably hinder his ability far more than anyone is letting on.

Yes I've heard the refrain that good teams deal with injuries, agreed but it's far easier to mask the deficiencies of back ups when the top starters are in there especially on the O-line. Tyron Smith is not healthy enough to mask the LG deficiencies and Collins isn't good enough to mask the RG deficiencies with Martin banged up or out. That leaves Looney and we praise him for his effort but he's playing between two G's who are only adequate leaving him as adequate. No where on the team is cohesion needed more than on the O-line.

Given a choice today between; (A) a different: QB (B) a different HC/OC: and(C) the return to the form of the 2014, 2015, 2016 O-line I take C very single game. Why? Because there is zero proof that a different QB would play differently behind a makeshift line and there is no proof that a different OC would change the red zoe woes behind a makeshift O-line. There is plenty of proof that the 2014, 2015, 2016 O-lines produced results in the red zone with both QB's behind them.

Where does that leave us going forward? Belief that Tyron will return to form? Belief that Freddy will be back and 100%? Believing that C Williams will add strength in the off season? Believing that we may move Collins back to LG and use Williams at RG? That's a lot of belief to hang ones hopes on

 

[northerncowboynation]

Rodgers would light it up behind this OL and run game support.

I believe that's called supposition, conjecture, hypothesis, postulation, feeling or hunch with zero proof

 

[MikeT22]

And all this points to reasons why Jerry will keep everything the same over the off season.
Nothing will change.

Even though you are correct, I apologize as I do not mean to detract from your OP.
But that is all I see right now, just another excuse for Jerry on top his other 257 reasons to keep things as is with the coaching staff.

Not that he needs any excuses as he only needs his #1 reason. He likes Jason no matter what in his stubbornness to do it his way.

If anything happens it may be firing Linehan and maybe Kellen Moore. Garrett will be protected and treated like he played no role in it.

 

[tm1119]

I believe that's called supposition, conjecture, hypothesis, postulation, feeling or hunch with zero proof

Come on man...there’s no way you can honestly say that Aaron Rodgers wouldn’t improve the team over Dak Prescott. You can be a fan of Dak, but this is just beyond ridiculous.

 

[northerncowboynation]

Come on man...there’s no way you can honestly say that Aaron Rodgers wouldn’t improve the team over Dak Prescott. You can be a fan of Dak, but this is just beyond ridiculous.

Supposition, conjecture, hypothesis, and postulation based on feelings are called what? Feelings. You have them, I have them. Neither come with proof. Pure speculation. Now bring in good old Aaron and put him behind this makeshift O-line and if the results are different than 8-6 you have something more than a hunch or a feeling. It's called proof and you have none, nor do I

 

[PelvusBrestley]

Lot of truth to your points and I won't disagree to an extent. I've had the same discussion with Furboy and do agree with both of you that maybe a
coaching to Dak's strengths would offer a more productive offense. BUT ultimately to what level I ask myself. For the life of me, even as outdated, antiquated and predictable as the scheme is, plays AND points are being left on the field at an alarming rate.
Warner's piece on Daks inability to pull the trigger on basic NFL passes that should have been scores was an eye opener.

So while I agree that the scheme is outdated, I more see that the QB lacks any ability to complete all the opportunities that are presenting themselves on a weekly basis. As unfortunate as it is to agree with stuff that should be kept in house, both Hurns and Beasley are NFL OPEN consistently, as well as Gallup of which I'm sure you've seen. Dak does not possess the ability to consistently make basic NFL throws. Emphasis on consistent. It is in my opinion that coaching nor scheme could drastically improve this reality of him. Hes simply not good enough to play championship level ball. Sooner or later at the playoff level, a QB will be asked to make tight window throws. Dak cant. Inaccuracy is real.

Well said and spot on, a simple like was not enough

 

[tm1119]

Supposition, conjecture, hypothesis, and postulation based on feelings are called what? Feelings. You have them, I have them. Neither come with proof. Pure speculation. Now bring in good old Aaron and put him behind this makeshift O-line and if the results are different than 8-6 you have something more than a hunch or a feeling. It's called proof and you have none, nor do I

No, it’s called common sense.

 

[75boyz]

Totally agree Hawkeye. Honestly think that if the 2018 offense had the 2014, 2015 or 2016 O-line the red zone woes would be much less woeful and we would be in the hunt for an NFC Championship. What makes me believe that is we have the same QB, same OC and play calling and same HC. Different TE's yes but this group has produced as many yards as Witt did last year so that isn't a significant factor. I think Witt had 5 TD's last year and 3 were inside the red zone so that isn't significant either. Cooper has more than replaced Dez's numbers without the trouble and attitude.

Look at it this way, 60% of the O-line has been made up of backups every Sunday and in the last game 80% were backups. That isn't even touching the fact that Tyron is not the LT that he was 3, 4, 5 years ago and Zach is dealing with knee issues that probably hinder his ability far more than anyone is letting on.

Yes I've heard the refrain that good teams deal with injuries, agreed but it's far easier to mask the deficiencies of back ups when the top starters are in there especially on the O-line. Tyron Smith is not healthy enough to mask the LG deficiencies and Collins isn't good enough to mask the RG deficiencies with Martin banged up or out. That leaves Looney and we praise him for his effort but he's playing between two G's who are only adequate leaving him as adequate. No where on the team is cohesion needed more than on the O-line.

Given a choice today between; (A) a different: QB (B) a different HC/OC: and(C) the return to the form of the 2014, 2015, 2016 O-line I take C very single game. Why? Because there is zero proof that a different QB would play differently behind a makeshift line and there is no proof that a different OC would change the red zoe woes behind a makeshift O-line. There is plenty of proof that the 2014, 2015, 2016 O-lines produced results in the red zone with both QB's behind them.

Where does that leave us going forward? Belief that Tyron will return to form? Belief that Freddy will be back and 100%? Believing that C Williams will add strength in the off season? Believing that we may move Collins back to LG and use Williams at RG? That's a lot of belief to hang ones hopes on

Your specific o - line personnel breakdown and the effects on this team's performance based on the present and past abilities of this current and past version is very accurate and I wholeheartedly agree.

But I believe that coaching and QB play play as equal a role if not moreso.
Just last year's example alone in the NFC Championship game matched a Minnesota team of o linemen in which all 5 were new and playing together the whole year for the first time. For Philly, they had suffered countless lost games from both Peters and Johnson(injuries and PEDs) leading up to the Championship Game.
Both of them accomplished this with back up journeyman QBs. One even won the Super Bowl.

I am not disagreeing with your points at all concerning the extreme importance of the olines play and its correlating impact.

But for reasons stated above and countless other examples that could be cited, I think we should still be able to accomplish "a little more with less" so to speak.

 

[northerncowboynation]

Your specific o - line personnel breakdown and the effects on this team's performance based on the present and past abilities of this current and past version is very accurate and I wholeheartedly agree.

But I believe that coaching and QB play play as equal a role if not moreso.
Just last year's example alone in the NFC Championship game matched a Minnesota team of o linemen in which all 5 were new and playing together the whole year for the first time. For Philly, they had suffered countless lost games from both Peters and Johnson(injuries and PEDs) leading up to the Championship Game.
Both of them accomplished this with back up journeyman QBs. One even won the Super Bowl.

I am not disagreeing with your points at all concerning the extreme importance of the olines play and its correlating impact.

But for reasons stated above and countless other examples that could be cited, I think we should still be able to accomplish "a little more with less" so to speak.

I agree. Some coaching staffs can take average and coach them up to be above average. Bellichik and his staff have done that many times. However, there are very few coaches that can sustain that year in and year out. Bellichik being the exception to the rule. Sean Payton, for example, 5 winning season and 4 losing seasons in the last nine even with one of the top 5 QB's in the history of the league. The players around Brees have changed over time with some below average, some average, some above average and the expectation of consistently, year in and year out, coaching average to above average is an expectation that most will never achieve.

Not saying that coaching or QB play don't have an impact. They do. What I am saying is that there is a higher probability of the red zone woes being corrected with a return to form of the O-line than a new HC/OC or QB. JMO opinion. We all have our pet peeves. Guessing that if we finish 8-8 we may be able to test drive that theory of a new HC being the answer. Heck. I'd settle for a new OC and return to form of the O-line.

 

[75boyz]

I agree. Some coaching staffs can take average and coach them up to be above average. Bellichik and his staff have done that many times. However, there are very few coaches that can sustain that year in and year out. Bellichik being the exception to the rule. Sean Payton, for example, 5 winning season and 4 losing seasons in the last nine even with one of the top 5 QB's in the history of the league. The players around Brees have changed over time with some below average, some average, some above average and the expectation of consistently, year in and year out, coaching average to above average is an expectation that most will never achieve.

Not saying that coaching or QB play don't have an impact. They do. What I am saying is that there is a higher probability of the red zone woes being corrected with a return to form of the O-line than a new HC/OC or QB. JMO opinion. We all have our pet peeves. Guessing that if we finish 8-8 we may be able to test drive that theory of a new HC being the answer. Heck. I'd settle for a new OC and return to form of the O-line.

yep, excellent points.

 

[America's Cowboy]

1st of all, YOUR exact words were Rodgers is playing behind a “crumbling o-line” in the 1st post directed towards me. So which is it? You don’t even know what you are arguing at this point you are so delusional.
2nd, as myself and many others have pointed out to you, those #’s don’t tell the whole story of the qb having poor pocket awareness and holding the ball too long. Dak is top 10 in the league for time to throw...argument over of blaming the o line.

Rodgers Oline has been as injured as ours, but his Oline has still performed better, and that's because Rodgers is much older, beat up and less mobile. The stats prove as much. Nothing to dispute there except your stubborn ignorance.

 

[America's Cowboy]

Rodgers would light it up behind this OL and run game support.

Yeah, just like you argued very hard this preseason that Rodgers and his Packers would were going to be the best team in the NFC this year. lol

 

[America's Cowboy]

No, it’s called common sense.

Which you seriously lack.

 

[America's Cowboy]

Your specific o - line personnel breakdown and the effects on this team's performance based on the present and past abilities of this current and past version is very accurate and I wholeheartedly agree.

But I believe that coaching and QB play play as equal a role if not moreso.
Just last year's example alone in the NFC Championship game matched a Minnesota team of o linemen in which all 5 were new and playing together the whole year for the first time. For Philly, they had suffered countless lost games from both Peters and Johnson(injuries and PEDs) leading up to the Championship Game.
Both of them accomplished this with back up journeyman QBs. One even won the Super Bowl.

I am not disagreeing with your points at all concerning the extreme importance of the olines play and its correlating impact.

But for reasons stated above and countless other examples that could be cited, I think we should still be able to accomplish "a little more with less" so to speak.

In the playoffs, all teams are good.

 

[Hadenough]

Dak, Garrett, and Linehan are catching a ton of flack— and a lot of it is earned. They all have their issues. But underneath all of it is a frustrating truth that is staring us in the face and has undermined this season:

The OL has failed to deliver this year.

Frederick being on IR is just a huge loss, and we have in essence replaced an elite player with an adequate player at the most critical position on OL.

Due to injuries— neither Tyron nor Zack are playing elite football. Their injuries have diminished their effectiveness over the stretch.

Connor lacks the bulk and strength at this point to be effective. Sua Filo is an above average backup that has limitations. Same with Fleming.

The bottom line is we want and expect 2016 offensive production— but we just don’t have the same horses and production from the OL that we had that year.

We are barely scraping by at this point— and Dak's inability to handle pressure well, make quick throws, or improvise and gunsling further hamstring this offense.

Throw in uncreative, predictable playcalling and you get the cluster-cuss we are witnessing at times this year.

It is frustrating but the bottom line is this: what we are trotting out at OL right now is compromising the entire offense. It hurts us the most with inefficiency in the red zone and bad penalties.


Anyway— IMO, had we had a healthy OL this year, a lot of our issues on offense would not be as pronounced as they have been.

Everyone has injuries this time of year. Even the guys starting are playing are beat up!

 

[Hadenough]

So when Aaron Rodgers gets hurt, the really good GB coach yells "GO THROW PERFECT PASSES IN THE 4TH QUARTER" at the backup.

Then they win.

Got it.

Het didnt Matt Flynn come to Dallas and hang 37 on the Cowboys and beat em. That game was sickening!

 

[Hawkeye19]

Everyone has injuries this time of year. Even the guys starting are playing are beat up!

Not making an excuse for them— just stating an obvious fact: the talent level drop off at LG and C has been an issue all season long, and there has been diminished play from the LT and RG.

It’s easy to say— “next man up”, or “everyone has injuries this time of year”, or “Philly won the SB last year with a ton of injuries!” Etc... and just assume everything will just keep right on ticking.
But that’s not realistic.

The OL was built and expected to be a strength... and it is far from that this year.

 

[Diehardblues]

Yeah, just like you argued very hard this preseason that Rodgers and his Packers would were going to be the best team in the NFC this year. lol

I don’t recall saying they’d be the “ best” team in NFC this year.

Does that mean you don’t think Rodgers would have more success in this offense than Dak?

 

[Diehardblues]

In the playoffs, all teams are good.

They’re certainly better than the rest.

9-7 teams are just barely above average though. I’m not sure I’d define them as good. That’s subjective.

 

[America's Cowboy]

I don’t recall saying they’d be the “ best” team in NFC this year.

Hmm? Well, I do believe you said Aaron Rodgers and his Packers were your favorites to win it all this year?