We DID get a 4th for shanle...

[JackMagist]

We might very well have only gotten a 7th but as many have pointed out we do very well with that round. I hope we got the 4th (and I think it is very possible) because that would give us more room to maneuver on draft day. We could trade a 4th for three 7th rounders, we've done that before (or was that a 5th...well you get the point).

I'll wait and see on this one (what choice do I have) before getting too excited but I see it as very possible that we DID get the 4th rounder. They offered a 4th for Donnie Edwards; a player who is getting old and has a lot of miles on him. Why not give the same 4th for a much younger guy with a lot more upside that they already know can play well for them?

Maybe they could have gotten him for less…but then again maybe we wouldn’t let him go for less. Shanle was a quality player. Parcells was talking about what a good player he was in his PC the day AFTER we traded him away. That was an honest opinion with no possible hidden agenda, the deal was done.

 

[Alexander]

We might very well have only gotten a 7th but as many have pointed out we do very well with that round. I hope we got the 4th (and I think it is very possible) because that would give us more room to maneuver on draft day. We could trade a 4th for three 7th rounders, we've done that before (or was that a 5th...well you get the point).

I'll wait and see on this one (what choice do I have) before getting too excited but I see it as very possible that we DID get the 4th rounder. They offered a 4th for Donnie Edwards; a player who is getting old and has a lot of miles on him. Why not give the same 4th for a much younger guy with a lot more upside that they already know can play well for them?

Maybe they could have gotten him for less…but then again maybe we wouldn’t let him go for less. Shanle was a quality player. Parcells was talking about what a good player he was in his PC the day AFTER we traded him away. That was an honest opinion with no possible hidden agenda, the deal was done.

I agree that Shanle is a good player, but it is very unreasonable to expect a fourth round choice in return. Teams do value choices more these days than ever and coming from the Saints, a fourth round choice could be very close to a third round selection. The fourth round could be the upper end of some sort of productivity condition to the choice, but the idea that it was for a fourth, with no strings, is completely absurd.

 

[notherbob]

I thought it was a conditional 7th rounder. If so, what were the conditions and could his performance for the Saints turn it into a a selection as high as a fourth?

 

[dasander]

I guess this makes up for that Chris Bordano trade we made with the Saints in like 1999/2000 where we traded away Kevin Mathis. I was ticked about that trade. Just goes to show you all the shady stuff that went around during the Campo years.

 

[Waffle]

I hope we got the 4th (and I think it is very possible) because that would give us more room to maneuver on draft day.

I'm just glad it wasn't a 3rd!!

 

[Hostile]

I personally feel it's a good deal for the Saints. Okay, don't act so surprised. Yes, I have not been a staunch Shanle supporter but only to the point that I wouldn't elevate him above his capabilities. I think it was ludicruous to suggest he was better than Nguyen and I won't give him a gay sounding nickname.

He's not a bad player, he's just not a great player. However, he's better than what the Saints had. Look how bad their LB corps is folks. 2 of our backups (albeit situational starters) last year will likely start for the Saints this year.

Shanle is gone for only one reason really and it has nothing to do with him personally. The depth around him just got to be more than he was worth to the team. It's as simple as that. There were too many quality players ahead of him.

That doesn't mean he will be a star for the Saints and it doesn't mean he'll stink either. It just means we have a very nice LB corps with some great depth.

Personally, I'm excited about the defense. I think they drive this ship this year.

 

[SA_Gunslinger]

Wow, that's a pretty good deal for us.

that's a tremendous deal!

it almost makes up for the lost henson pick. nice.

 

[JackMagist]

I agree that Shanle is a good player, but it is very unreasonable to expect a fourth round choice in return. Teams do value choices more these days than ever and coming from the Saints, a fourth round choice could be very close to a third round selection. The fourth round could be the upper end of some sort of productivity condition to the choice, but the idea that it was for a fourth, with no strings, is completely absurd.

Unlikely...agreed; given his background...but didn't we just pay a $5mil SB to an OL with a similar background? Absurd...not really; when you consider how badly NO needs LB help and the fact that they know what they are getting with Shanle.

But I doubt that we will agree on this...probably not even when the actual facts come to undeniable light.

 

[Alexander]

Unlikely...agreed; given his background...but didn't we just pay a $5mil SB to an OL with a similar background? Absurd...not really; when you consider how badly NO needs LB help and the fact that they know what they are getting with Shanle.

But I doubt that we will agree on this...probably not even when the actual facts come to undeniable light.

A free agent signing isn't quite the same as a draft choice, Jack. To any GMs not in Washington, draft choices are not thrown around at the drop of a hat.

Of course we will agree when the facts come to light. I would be as ecstatic as some that are taking it as the truth right now.

 

[JackMagist]

I personally feel it's a good deal for the Saints. Okay, don't act so surprised. Yes, I have not been a staunch Shanle supporter but only to the point that I wouldn't elevate him above his capabilities. I think it was ludicruous to suggest he was better than Nguyen and I won't give him a gay sounding nickname.

He's not a bad player, he's just not a great player. However, he's better than what the Saints had. Look how bad their LB corps is folks. 2 of our backups (albeit situational starters) last year will likely start for the Saints this year.

Shanle is gone for only one reason really and it has nothing to do with him personally. The depth around him just got to be more than he was worth to the team. It's as simple as that. There were too many quality players ahead of him.

That doesn't mean he will be a star for the Saints and it doesn't mean he'll stink either. It just means we have a very nice LB corps with some great depth.

Personally, I'm excited about the defense. I think they drive this ship this year.

I agree with all of this. I would add however, that the skill set that Shanle brings to the table is better suited for the 4-3 that NO will run. Most of the LB's here in Dallas are a lot bigger than he is and I think this is a major factor in him becoming expendable here in Dallas.

 

[JackMagist]

A free agent signing isn't quite the same as a draft choice, Jack. To any GMs not in Washington, draft choices are not thrown around at the drop of a hat.

Most GM's not in Washington don't throw around $5 mil signing bonuses for marginal players either.

Of course we will agree when the facts come to light. I would be as ecstatic as some that are taking it as the truth right now.

I still doubt we will agree. Of course you would be please if we got the 4th rounder...you are after all a Cowboys fan. But I think you will still be saying (or at least thinking), "I still can't believe they gave us that for him."

Whereas if we only get a 7th I will be saying (or at least thinking), "I think we should have gotten more for him."

In that regard I don't think we will ever agree.

 

[ZeroClub]

We will rue the day the Cowboys traded Shanle.






(somebody had to say it)

 

[JackMagist]

We will rue the day the Cowboys traded Shanle.






(somebody had to say it)

Did they really?

 

[Alexander]

Most GM's not in Washington don't throw around $5 mil signing bonuses for marginal players either.

Kosier is a bad example, Jack. We weren't the only ones prepared to dole out the money for him. We had competition from several teams from what I read, which is why we signed him so soon.

I still doubt we will agree. Of course you would be please if we got the 4th rounder...you are after all a Cowboys fan. But I think you will still be saying (or at least thinking), "I still can't believe they gave us that for him."

Of course. It is fairly rare that you have a solid player second or third on your depth chart be sold for a fourth round choice. Even Ashley Lelie, who is more accomplished barely brought that.

Whereas if we only get a 7th I will be saying (or at least thinking), "I think we should have gotten more for him."

In that regard I don't think we will ever agree.

It goes back to overvaluing our players. Just like people thought we should be able to get back what we gave up for Henson. Or thought Dexter Coakley could have got something. Yes, I think a seventh is a bit low (a fifth would be a heist in my estimation), but a fourth is unreasonable when you look at the relative value for what other teams have given up for choices in that range. The Saints themselves were only able to get a fourth round selection from Kansas City for Michael Bennett.

 

[AbeBeta]

Let's see...
We gave up two 1st rounders for Galloway
We gave up a 3rd rounder for James McKnight (in the last year of his contract)
We've given up numerous 4th and 5th rounders over the years to slide around in the draft for guys like Stan Smagala and OLs that were busts.
We gave up a 3rd rounder for Drew Henson...

you forgot my favorite -- a 4th and 7th for OJ Santiago.

plus the trade ups for Ekuban and Lafleur.

but honestly, i wouldn't get my hopes up that we got anything but a 7 for Shanle.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

you forgot my favorite -- a 4th and 7th for OJ Santiago.

plus the trade ups for Ekuban and Lafleur.

but honestly, i wouldn't get my hopes up that we got anything but a 7 for Shanle.

Yeah...I heard Mickey say a 7th when on with The Hardline the day we traded him.

 

[DLCassidy]

I'm in the "don't believe this for a second" camp.

 

[AbeBeta]

Yeah...I heard Mickey say a 7th when on with The Hardline the day we traded him.

I don't generally find Mickey to be a great source -- but you've got a guy who is close to the team reporting something that makes sense Vs. a guy at ESPN who is not close to the team reporting something that does not make sense.

The KFFL story is likely just a reporter taking his information from the internet.

 

[InmanRoshi]

"Why would the Saints trade for him when he was going to get cut anyway?"


.... ugh, maybe because someone else was trying to trade for him?

 

[JackMagist]

Kosier is a bad example, Jack. We weren't the only ones prepared to dole out the money for him. We had competition from several teams from what I read, which is why we signed him so soon.

Do we know that there were not other offers on the table for Shanle?

Of course. It is fairly rare that you have a solid player second or third on your depth chart be sold for a fourth round choice. Even Ashley Lelie, who is more accomplished barely brought that.

Lelie brought a 3rd AND a 4th (or a 3rd and a 1st round upgrade)...MUCH more than we got for Shanle as it should have been. Not really a good example for this discussion.

It goes back to overvaluing our players. Just like people thought we should be able to get back what we gave up for Henson. Or thought Dexter Coakley could have got something. Yes, I think a seventh is a bit low (a fifth would be a heist in my estimation), but a fourth is unreasonable when you look at the relative value for what other teams have given up for choices in that range. The Saints themselves were only able to get a fourth round selection from Kansas City for Michael Bennett.

I think if you were to check you would find that I'm not bad about overvaluing our players. I did not complain when we released Coakley or even Glover (though I think we could have gotten SOMETHING for Glover). And I put Bennet in the same boat as those guys; he is getting up there, he's been around and he has had some wear and tear/injuries. It is hard to trade an old players, teams just won't give up anything for them and rightfully so. But Shanle is only 26 and has had no injuries to speak of. He is a prime candidate for a trade deal.

Now if we can just get a 7th for Coleman we are Golden