We should definitely listen to Gil Brandt

[Eskimo]

Ware was productive at "Troy" but there's a big difference being productive at a small school and being productive in the NFL. This is where the evaluation process comes in and projecting players especially those from small schools who haven't played against top talent is a crapshoot.

In Ware's case he was still very effective even when playing against top level competition. I think he also did well at the Senior Bowl and the combine was the icing on the cake.

 

[DFWJC]

In Ware's case he was still very effective even when playing against top level competition. I think he also did well at the Senior Bowl and the combine was the icing on the cake.

Good points

It should be noted however that Troy is a D-1 level program that plays 2-3 SEC teams every season. Add that to one-on-one matchups vs individual standout players in their conference, plus the all-star games, bowl game and combines and you can get a decent gauge of any D-1 player. Troy is not a lower division program like Dayton or Stephen F Austin....they play D-1 ball do fairly well.

 

[Chief]

I've always believed Brandt was overrated as a personnel guy.

He and the Cowboys were better than most teams in the 1970s because they put so much time and resources into scouting. Brandt was great at knowing the right people and collecting information. He hustled.

In the 1980s, other teams caught up to Dallas and the Cowboys took too many shots at prospects instead of players. While Tex and Landry may have made the final call, much of their information came from Brandt.

I blame Brandt for touting guys like Rod Hill and Kevin Brooks so highly, when they didn't have the heart or intelligence to do anything in the NFL.

It was Brandt who said Mike Singletary was too short. But he loved the fact that Mike Walter could "run just as fast backwards as he can forwards."

The guy still hustles, still gathers information, but I don't trust his eye for talent.

Having said all that, I want no part of Campbell.

 

[KJJ]

Jim Garrett is in his 80's and is the one who drew Dallas attention to Miles Austin the people in and around this game understand it. They don't have to play the game and age has nothing to do with scouting, age has something to do with playing. Outside of that the game still is won and lost at the line of scrimmage as it always has been it is still a game of running, catching and throwing that has not changed. Some rules have changed and yes players have become bigger and faster but what you look for in players has not changed you are still judgeing them off their peers in college.

Brandt started as a scout in 1960 from the Cowboys inception. He did an excellent job from 1960 to around 78-79 and that's about when the Cowboys drafts started going real sour. He was the one who RAVED over Rod Hill in 82 who ended up being one of the biggest draft busts in Cowboys history. His poor talent evaluting is one of the main reasons the Cowboys started declining in the 80's. Brandt built his reputation in the 60's and 70's. I remember how he DROOLED over Gaston Green back in 88 who played for UCLA. He compared him to Tony Dorsett. Green ended up being a complete flop for the Rams. I don't put much weight into Brandts evaluations anymore. Jim Garrett spent most of his career as a player and then a coach. He became a scout much later on and has two sons he groomed to be players. Even at Jim Garretts age I'm sure he's more in tuned with todays game and the modern player than Gil Brandt but he doesn't carry the weight Brandt did when he was with the Cowboys. The Cowboys have alot more scouts now than they did 30-40 years ago. The game passes everyone by eventually players, coaches and scouts.

 

[KJJ]

In Ware's case he was still very effective even when playing against top level competition. I think he also did well at the Senior Bowl and the combine was the icing on the cake.

The only top talent Ware played against in college was at the Senior Bowl where he did well. When you draft a player from a smaller school there is more risk but Ware had all the measurables. There's been alot of players come out who looked the part and had great combines only to go bust. It's all comes down to a players heart and their motor. Ware gets carted off with a neck injury and he's back the next week getting the key sack that helped us beat the Saints. That tells you what kind of player he is.

 

[Sarge]

Pass on Campbell please.

 

[casmith07]

Just more credibility points for me.

I've said all along that Campbell will be a bust and we better not pick him at 27. The dude just isn't a good football player.

The more and more I think about it, we are trading down. I don't believe there will be anyone left with a first round grade when we pick.

Maurkice Pouncy or Nate Allen will be our first selection IMO.

While I disagree on what our first pick will be, at least we agree that Bruce Campbell will be a bust.

 

[speedkilz88]

first off, and please don't take this as i'm a campbell advocate. personally i'd prefer gaither between the two, who also came from maryland. maryland was terrible this year. 2 wins. individual awards can...not always go hand in hand with team success. second, campbell is a jr. so why would he get sympathy senior votes? third, he was injured the first game and had nagging injuries all season. and lastly, player projections aren't based solely on college accomplishment. doing well in college isn't always a correlation. just throwing those points out there....

Those are great points. Not an advocate either. I just want them to get a guy that can play at a high level and OL does need to be a position to look at.

 

[SLATEmosphere]

While I disagree on what our first pick will be, at least we agree that Bruce Campbell will be a bust.

Yeah, ive seen him play alot and he has super slow feet in pads. I dont know why. He just does.

Figures a Maryland product would be a combine warrior.

 

[casmith07]

Yeah, ive seen him play alot and he has super slow feet in pads. I dont know why. He just does.

Figures a Maryland product would be a combine warrior.

That's usually all they excel at. Remember all of the erotic man-love posts about his physique?

He's a bust and a half...bust and three quarters if you want to take it that far.

You could argue Vernon Davis was a bust coming out of Maryland too.

 

[speedkilz88]

That's usually all they excel at. Remember all of the erotic man-love posts about his physique?

He's a bust and a half...bust and three quarters if you want to take it that far.

You could argue Vernon Davis was a bust coming out of Maryland too.

You do know the guy was a pro bowler right? 78 965 12.4 73T 13

 

[casmith07]

You do know the guy was a pro bowler right? 78 965 12.4 73T 13

Playing twice a year against Arizona, St. Louis, and Seattle uke:

I think part of the initial bust has to do with the environment too. He didn't start out with much support from the QB position or from coaching...it's getting better in San Fran, unfortunately.

Another example of busting: for the last three to four years we all know who's going to be a bust in the draft - whomever Oakland selects.

 

[DFWJC]

The only top talent Ware played against in college was at the Senior Bowl where he did well. When you draft a player from a smaller school there is more risk but Ware had all the measurables. There's been alot of players come out who looked the part and had great combines only to go bust. It's all comes down to a players heart and their motor. Ware gets carted off with a neck injury and he's back the next week getting the key sack that helped us beat the Saints. That tells you what kind of player he is.

Great points about the heart of player.

I hate to keep coming back to this, but some of you need to look more closely at the schedules of D-1 programs that just happen to be in non-BCS conferences. Some play several power programs each year.

To show you how naive that comment was about Ware never facing good competition until the Sr Bowl, I'll offer this. Ware played against some good teams.

Troy played against:

LSU, Nebraska (twice), Miami, S Carolina, Missouri (twice), Arkansas, Virginia, Miss St (twice), Minnesota, , Iw St.....the list goes on.

 

[DFWJC]

Playing twice a year against Arizona, St. Louis, and Seattle uke:

I think part of the initial bust has to do with the environment too. He didn't start out with much support from the QB position or from coaching...it's getting better in San Fran, unfortunately.

Another example of busting: for the last three to four years we all know who's going to be a bust in the draft - whomever Oakland selects.

Yeah.
Vernon Davis is now elite, but it took some time to get there.

 

[dcfanatic]

first off, and please don't take this as i'm a campbell advocate. personally i'd prefer gaither between the two, who also came from maryland. maryland was terrible this year. 2 wins. individual awards can...not always go hand in hand with team success. second, campbell is a jr. so why would he get sympathy senior votes? third, he was injured the first game and had nagging injuries all season. and lastly, player projections aren't based solely on college accomplishment. doing well in college isn't always a correlation. just throwing those points out there....

Oh wow. I thought I read somewhere that he was a Senior. It was saying that he only started for a year and half and won the job in his Junior year.

My bad on that part.

I still don't want him.

 

[KJJ]

Great points about the heart of player.

I hate to keep coming back to this, but some of you need to look more closely at the schedules of D-1 programs that just happen to be in non-BCS conferences. Some play several power programs each year.

To show you how naive that comment was about Ware never facing good competition until the Sr Bowl, I'll offer this. Ware played against some good teams.

Troy played against:

LSU, Nebraska (twice), Miami, S Carolina, Missouri (twice), Arkansas, Virginia, Miss St (twice), Minnesota, , Iw St.....the list goes on.

I never followed Troy or checked who they played but one of the concerns teams had with Ware was that he played for a small school so he couldn't have played against alot of top talent if there were concerns about the size school he played for. How many players did he play against on a weekly basis that ended up grading out as first round talent? He didn't start climbing up draft boards until the Senior Bowl and combine so there had to be some questions initially about the level of competition he played against.

 

[casmith07]

I can't believe people are arguing about what kind of talent DeMarcus Ware played against.

How about this: DeMarcus Ware is a MANBEAST.

/THREAD.

 

[dcfanatic]

I can't believe people are arguing about what kind of talent DeMarcus Ware played against.

How about this: DeMarcus Ware is a MANBEAST.

/THREAD.

DeMarcus Ware is a fine upstanding young man...

[youtube]GtBdzW32LqY[/youtube]

 

[Eskimo]

The only top talent Ware played against in college was at the Senior Bowl where he did well.

No, this is not true. Ware got to play against Missouri, New Mexico State, LSU and South Carolina in his senior year. So there was film on him going up against the big school competition. I believe his performance against LSU (tapewise, not sure about statwise) is one of the things that helped move him up draft boards.

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

Earl Thomas at 27 could be our Ed Reed... Remember he was picked late in the 1st round. I wouldn't be mad at all.