We still $6M+ under the cap so what happens to that money

[Wimbo]

Because a NLTBE incentive does not push through cap space. Thus, it's not a "NLTBE loophole."

It's a "LTBE loophole." The clause pushing cap space to the next year only applies to LTBE incentives. Not to NLTBE incentives.

It's a minor error. Sorry if pointing it out ruffled his or your feathers.

You are not ruffling my feathers... I don't have any skin in this game.
All I am saying is that Adams description was easy for me to understand, and it makes sense. I guess for you, it is not so easy. No big deal. I see what you are arguing, I just think you are misguided in calling this an error by AdamJT13.

 

[AdamJT13]

Still not an accurate description.

Only to you.

You keep saying this, but haven't proven me wrong in a single instance.

I certainly could, if I felt like it. But like I said, it doesn't have anything to do with the loophole, or this thread, so I'll let it slide. I really don't feel like getting into another pointless discussion with you.

 

[AdamJT13]

I didn't get bent. I just wondered why he called it a NLTBE loophole. And when I discovered why (his inappropriate perception of the term and how it works in terms of pushing cap space through) I pointed it out. It was a minor error, but he apparently doesn't like being corrected.

You didn't "correct" anything. And I certainly don't have any "inappropriate perception of ... how it works." You trying to argue that would be asinine, considering that I explained it in my first post of this thread (and many times in previous threads).

Look, you were PROVEN wrong about how the loophole works, and you ADMITTED your lack of knowledge of the issue. So now, to try to save face, all you have left is to argue semantics over what I called something that DOESN'T HAVE A NAME. And to try claiming that a loophole teams use to give players incentives that are not likely to be earned but still count against the cap as a method of pushing cap room forward can't be called an "NLTBE loophole" is a completely ridiculous argument, as I've shown by the common usage of terms such as "tax loophole" and "murder loophole." Find any loophole, and you can bet it's often referred to by what it is used to avoid.

 

[aikemirv]

Because a NLTBE incentive does not push through cap space. Thus, it's not a "NLTBE loophole."

It's a "LTBE loophole." The clause pushing cap space to the next year only applies to LTBE incentives. Not to NLTBE incentives.

It's a minor error. Sorry if pointing it out ruffled his or your feathers.

You should really read your sig line and take it to heart!

 

[theogt]

You didn't "correct" anything. And I certainly don't have any "inappropriate perception of ... how it works." You trying to argue that would be asinine, considering that I explained it in my first post of this thread (and many times in previous threads).

Look, you were PROVEN wrong about how the loophole works, and you ADMITTED your lack of knowledge of the issue. So now, to try to save face, all you have left is to argue semantics over what I called something that DOESN'T HAVE A NAME. And to try claiming that a loophole teams use to give players incentives that are not likely to be earned but still count against the cap as a method of pushing cap room forward can't be called an "NLTBE loophole" is a completely ridiculous argument, as I've shown by the common usage of terms such as "tax loophole" and "murder loophole." Find any loophole, and you can bet it's often referred to by what it is used to avoid.

Actually, no, I wasn't proven wrong on how the loophole works. I was correct. An incentive must be a LTBE incentive in order for it to be pushed through.

And your argument about using different names to signify what you're trying to avoid is about as dumb as it gets. NLTBE incentives have nothing to do with it. Nice attempt at spinning, though.

Your use of the term NLTBE is at best misleading and at worst simply incorrect.

 

[fanfromvirginia]

Because a NLTBE incentive does not push through cap space. Thus, it's not a "NLTBE loophole."

It's a "LTBE loophole." The clause pushing cap space to the next year only applies to LTBE incentives. Not to NLTBE incentives.

It's a minor error. Sorry if pointing it out ruffled his or your feathers.

Is this how one gets to 16K+ posts?

 

[fanfromvirginia]

Actually, no, I wasn't proven wrong on how the loophole works. I was correct. An incentive must be a LTBE incentive in order for it to be pushed through.

And your argument about using different names to signify what you're trying to avoid is about as dumb as it gets. NLTBE incentives have nothing to do with it. Nice attempt at spinning, though.

Your use of the term NLTBE is at best misleading and at worst simply incorrect.

Let's vote...

 

[AdamJT13]

Actually, no, I wasn't proven wrong on how the loophole works.

Again with the semantics. You were proven wrong about how the loophole is used because of your admitted lack of knowledge about the CBA.

And your argument about using different names to signify what you're trying to avoid is about as dumb as it gets.

Except that it's extremely common, as I've shown. Murder loophole. Tax loophole. Drunk driving loophole. How many more examples do you need?

Your use of the term NLTBE is at best misleading and at worst simply incorrect.

And you're still the only one who thinks that. The fact that every other poster has disagreed with you should make that obvious.

 

[Wimbo]

Actually, no, I wasn't proven wrong on how the loophole works. I was correct. An incentive must be a LTBE incentive in order for it to be pushed through.

And your argument about using different names to signify what you're trying to avoid is about as dumb as it gets. NLTBE incentives have nothing to do with it. Nice attempt at spinning, though.

Your use of the term NLTBE is at best misleading and at worst simply incorrect.

I know you truly believe you are correct. However, you are off base in your argument. Everything AdamJT13 said is 100% accurate. He has not avoided anything. He has not tried to spin anything. It is almost like you missed a few sentences in his threads... I really can not fathom how you could read his posts and come to these conclusions.

His use of the term NLTBE Loophole is perfectly clear... Websters Dictionary lists as the 2nd definition of loophole as, "2: a means of escape; especially : an ambiguity or omission in the text through which the intent of a statute, contract, or obligation may be evaded". Thus a NLTBE loophole is an ambiguity through which the intent of NLTBE's may be evaded. Therefore, you can put a NLTBE incentive into a contract and have it count as a LTBE incentive to manipulate the cap... even though it is virtually impossible to earn. Pretty straight forward.

 

[superpunk]

 

[Tra_Col99]

 

[theogt]

I know you truly believe you are correct. However, you are off base in your argument. Everything AdamJT13 said is 100% accurate. He has not avoided anything. He has not tried to spin anything. It is almost like you missed a few sentences in his threads... I really can not fathom how you could read his posts and come to these conclusions.

His use of the term NLTBE Loophole is perfectly clear... Websters Dictionary lists as the 2nd definition of loophole as, "2: a means of escape; especially : an ambiguity or omission in the text through which the intent of a statute, contract, or obligation may be evaded". Thus a NLTBE loophole is an ambiguity through which the intent of NLTBE's may be evaded. Therefore, you can put a NLTBE incentive into a contract and have it count as a LTBE incentive to manipulate the cap... even though it is virtually impossible to earn. Pretty straight forward.

The error is in the use of a contractually defined term in a colloquial manner.

The instant that such an incentive clause is put into effect it is not a NLTBE incentive.

The two terms "NLTBE" and "LTBE" are contractual terms that have significantly different effects. Using them interchangeably is misleading.

So, colloquially speaking the clause will likely not be earned, but legally speaking the clause is LTBE.

 

[bbgun]

Battle of the blowhards.

 

[theogt]

Again with the semantics. You were proven wrong about how the loophole is used because of your admitted lack of knowledge about the CBA.

I admitted that I didn't realize an after-negotiated incentive is deemed a LTBE incentive. But that doesn't make anything I said wrong.

Except that it's extremely common, as I've shown. Murder loophole. Tax loophole. Drunk driving loophole. How many more examples do you need?

But it doesn't work in this scenario.

And you're still the only one who thinks that. The fact that every other poster has disagreed with you should make that obvious.

That obviously makes you right. The error is subtle and I wouldn't expect many to understand that it is in fact an error.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Geez theogt-- taking on Adam.



That's very brave...






But also very stoopeed.

 

[AdamJT13]

So, colloquially speaking the clause will likely not be earned, but legally speaking the clause is LTBE.

Who cares? You're arguing about jargon, and everyone else understood the term perfectly fine. And you would have, too, if you had read and understood my very first post in this thread. It doesn't matter what it's called, because it doesn't have a name. Heck, I might start calling it the "theogt loophole" on this board, and anyone who read this thread will know exactly what I'm talking about.

Seriously, how long are you going to drag this out?

 

[AdamJT13]

But it doesn't work in this scenario.

It certainly does. What normally is murder is not murder because of a murder loophole. What normally is drunk driving is not drunk driving because of a drunk driving loophole. What normally is taxed is not taxed because of a tax loophole. What normally is NLTBE is not NLTBE because of an NLTBE loophole.

That obviously makes you right.

I'm glad you finally agree.

 

[theogt]

Who cares? You're arguing about jargon, and everyone else understood the term perfectly fine. And you would have, too, if you had read and understood my very first post in this thread. It doesn't matter what it's called, because it doesn't have a name. Heck, I might start calling it the "theogt loophole" on this board, and anyone who read this thread will know exactly what I'm talking about.

Seriously, how long are you going to drag this out?

I understood it just fine after I realized the error you had made.

 

[AdamJT13]

I understood it just fine after I realized the error you had made.

Ah yes, back to you blaming the term "NLTBE" for you thinking the incentive had to be something that would be deemed LTBE before the season.

Good one.

 

[theogt]

It certainly does. What normally is murder is not murder because of a murder loophole. What normally is drunk driving is not drunk driving because of a drunk driving loophole. What normally is taxed is not taxed because of a tax loophole. What normally is NLTBE is not NLTBE because of an NLTBE loophole.

Ah, I see where the confusion comes in. You're referring to the Section 7(c)(xii) as the "loophole."

I'm not sure why you're referring to that provision as the loophole, though, because that provision does not have to even be utilized in order to push cap space through. The incentive can be one that is "normally a LTBE" or "normally a NLTBE." It doesn't matter. Either will push through cap space.