Wentz contract put Cowboys in precarious situation

[TheMarathonContinues]

Which is exactly why this is a good deal. End of day, this is a 25 Mil deal, for 6 years, per season and that's more then fair in my opinion.

Why do you guys keep saying it’s 25 million per season when the contract doesn’t kick in for two years?

 

[CyberB0b]

Why do you guys keep saying it’s 25 million per season when the contract doesn’t kick in for two years?

Because they don't understand it.

 

[Reid1boys]

Lets make no mistake about this, Wentz gave the Eagles a massive hometown discount. With remaining money owed ($154 M) and 6 years that is an avg of $25.7 Mill year. If Wentz even sniffs another MVP type year, that contract becomes most favorable team contract in all of sports. Wentz is only the #9th highest paid QB in football with top 3 potential. Garoppolo & Stafford are still ahead of him in avg yearly number (let that sink in). Wentz contract will allow Eagles to be aggressive in FA or resigning their players.

Now for Cowboys, Wentz hometown discount contract put Dallas in a bad spot because Dak will want more. That won't play out well on national or local level because most see Wentz as superior talent. Every game Dak contract will be compared to Wentz. Every losing streak will come back to Dak contract. Its really this simple. Since Wentz & Dak new contracts are happening at same time, If Dak makes more money then he has to out-perform Wentz over next six years. IMO thats wishful thinking.

you can not just casually include the remaining two years he has on his contract so you can get what you want to make your point. If you include those 2 years, of course it drags his pay down a ton. Judge his deal on what he is getting for those 4 years, which is over 30 mill a year... which is very well paid for a qb. So he did NOT give them some huge discount.

 

[cern]

> Most fans

Most fans are casuals

> The media

What is "the media"? I don't go to ESPN talk shows for QB analysis, I go to in-depth statistical sites like PFF, Football Outsiders, etc. And yes, it does make them morons - if you completely ignore the surrounding players in a TEAM game (which is what we call a group of players, duh!), it makes you a moron.

I just watch the games. If you need others to make up your mind for you, you just might not be all you think you are.

 

[Hadenough]

The Cowboys are only in a "precarious situation" if they allow themselves to be pigeonholed into it. They don't have to be. There is no one who can order Dallas to sign Dak to an exorbitant contract, save for the Cowboys themselves. If they want to let Dak walk, they can. If they want to low-ball him to a low contract and dare him to sign elsewhere, they can. Dak is replaceable.

We need to stop this NFL trend of team finances being held hostage by one marquee QB who eats up a disproportionately large amount of the cap.

This sounds very reasonable. Dallas has the upper hand right now and there is no sense in forcing the issue to sign Dak. Too many people are in a state of panic wanting to pay him 32 mil a year. Just relax and enjoy the season. It's a shame players contracts are made public.

 

[Birdgang]

What are you asking?

If you knew that the 107 Mil was Injury guarantee .... he is only getting 66 million. Its a common mistake when twitter throws up numbers without any context.

 

[mattjames2010]

I just watch the games. If you need others to make up your mind for you, you just might not be all you think you are.

Which isn't surprising, since you believe your eye-test is end all. This is how you end up with a million interpretations from multiple fans. I don't go to those sites just for articles, I go for statistics you won't find on other sites. It gives more context - couple this with watching some all-22.

 

[Birdgang]

come to think of it the details of the contract have not been posted

wont take cap hit on it till 2021. They are talking about it on local radio . Carsons Cap hit this year is really low so they may be able to use up free cap space now to lessen the hit when he is making 32m a year but in 2 more years that 32 will look like peanuts if the rates keep the current trend.

 

[atlantacowboy]

Why do you neglect the glaring fact that Dak has led his team every season since they were both drafted , has a better won/loss record (including playoff games and victories) and actually plays all the games ? Based upon availability alone Wentz isn't worth anywhere near that type of coin.........

If you could predict Wentz is going to continue to have fluke injury problems, you might have a point. Most teams will take the guy with the higher ceiling. Dak peaked as a rookie and no DC since has been concerned with our passing attack. We face loaded boxes week after week b/c Dak cannot consistently get the ball downfield. Anyone can hand the ball off to Elliot and do 4-6 yard dump passes. We don't need to pay someone 25-30 million per year for that.

 

[JJHLH1]

If Dak makes more money then he has to out-perform Wentz over next six years. IMO thats wishful thinking.

Dak has outperformed Wentz since they both joined the league in 2016. Dak deserves at least as much money as Wentz, especially considering the Cowboys got the greatest bargain in football the past 3 years with Dak.

 

[Birdgang]

Why do you guys keep saying it’s 25 million per season when the contract doesn’t kick in for two years?

If we knew the reasons why people did things ... world would be very different. Hell we cant even figure out women, let alone sports fanatics. But I think they point they are making is its a dam good deal. The extension does not kick in till 2021 and by that time 32 million might crack in the top 15. As of right now it would be top 7

 

[AbeBeta]

Wentz deal is different than Dak's for a couple of reasons. The biggest is that he was slated to make about 23 mill on the 5th year option next year. So he's two years out from having his deal expire. We'd have to franchise Dak next year to keep him if we can't get a deal done, that'll be around 28 mill next year (maybe more if we see some more big QB deals) which isn't far off from 30 mill or so.

Wentz did take his money as an extension but there are a few good facts in there. First, half of the money is guaranteed at signing. He's getting 64 million regardless of what happens between now and then. A good chunk of the rest guarantees later (likely the start of the next league year). Importantly, Wentz also has escalators. That can kick in another 16 mill total, if he hits those, he's got a raise to 36 mill a year for four years.

This honestly seems like a smart deal on both sides. There are certainly concerns about Wentz's ability to stay healthy - the Eagles bet on that with the 64 mill guaranteed at signing for play two years down the road. But they also gave Wentz the opportunity to bet on himself with escalators that would help his deal keep up with rising QB deals over the next two years.

 

[bayeslife]

Wentz gets the signing bonus the day he signed the contract - 17.6 million being reported. The overall picture is it is a 6 year contract.

But it’s not a 6 year contract. He has 2 years left on his rookie deal and then his 4yr/128m extension kicks in worth 32 per year.

Anyone saying otherwise is just trying to fawn over Wentz and put down Dak

 

[armadillooutlaw]

27 attempts.


That’s what separates their regular season careers.
When asked to pass the ball roughly the same amount of times we have factual data to look at.


1475 passing attempts
67 pass Td
25 int
10,876 yards


1448 passing attempts
70 pass Td
28 int
10,132 yards

So wentz has three more passing TDS and 3 more ints in less than a games worth fewer snaps. He also has 16 fewer rushing Tds than Dak and 7 more fumbles.

So now total #s become clearer.


85 TD
50 Fum/INT
In 48 games

72 TD
60 Fum/INT
In 40 games

Could also look at Wentz and Dak's numbers when they both have two very good- to great skill players healthy (Wentz with Jeffery & Ertz, Dak with Zeke and Dez, then Zeke and Cooper).



Dak in first half of 2017 with Zeke & Dez:
16 TDs, 4 INTs, 1818 yards, 63.7 completion percentage, 7.4 YPA, 102.8 QB Rating, 4 rushing TDs.

Dak in 9 games with Cooper, & Zeke for 8 of those 9 in 2018:
14 TDs, 4 INTs, 2468 yards, 71.7 completion percentage, 7.6 YPA, 102.4 QB Rating, 4 rushing TDs.

Wentz in 2017 (13 games) with Jeffery for all 13, Ertz for 11 of 13:
33 TDs, 7 INTs, 3296 yards, 60.2 completion percentage, 7.5 YPA,101.9 QB Rating.

Wentz in 2018 (11 games) with Ertz for all 11 games & Jeffery for 10 of 11:
21 TDs, 7 INTs, 3074 yards, 69.6 completion percentage, 7.7 YPA,102.2 QB rating

 

[Roadtrip635]

Well, I'll say this. I once watched an interview with Dan Marino, the guy who I believe was the best pure passer I've ever seen. Marino broke all the records, his Soph season is still one of the greatest single season achievements I've ever witnessed. In that interview he was asked what his greatest regret was. He said that he wished he would have done things a little differently to try and give himself a better chance to win a Championship. He said that after that 84 season, he just thought that he would get more chances to win one. He said that he wished he would have done the trade off and maybe ran the ball a little more but that passing was so much more fun and that he just always thought he would eventually win one. Of course, it never happened.

The point is that it's not just fans or media who judge themselves on winning, it's the players. I know this much, in my athletic career, as brief as it was, I would give up any individual great game for a win. My body is a mess these days and the older I get, the worse it gets. But you know what, I'd still get out there and play if I could, even though I know what it costs and you know why? Because I want to win too.

That's all I know.

I agree about Marino, probably the best pure passer ever. I'm sure I've seen that same interview, he assumed he'd have another chance at winning a Super Bowl and would have done things a little differently had he known now, what he didn't then.

It's not just fans, I think coaches can get too enamored with a players talent. You see the type of talent Marino had, it's mesmerizing and how do you tell him, the team, the owners, the fans, that he should pass less? That type of talent can become a crutch and lean on too much. Sometimes you have to save a player from themselves and sometimes you have to tell a coach the same thing about a player

 

[Corso]

Well, I'll say this. I once watched an interview with Dan Marino, the guy who I believe was the best pure passer I've ever seen. Marino broke all the records, his Soph season is still one of the greatest single season achievements I've ever witnessed. In that interview he was asked what his greatest regret was. He said that he wished he would have done things a little differently to try and give himself a better chance to win a Championship. He said that after that 84 season, he just thought that he would get more chances to win one. He said that he wished he would have done the trade off and maybe ran the ball a little more but that passing was so much more fun and that he just always thought he would eventually win one. Of course, it never happened.

The point is that it's not just fans or media who judge themselves on winning, it's the players. I know this much, in my athletic career, as brief as it was, I would give up any individual great game for a win. My body is a mess these days and the older I get, the worse it gets. But you know what, I'd still get out there and play if I could, even though I know what it costs and you know why? Because I want to win too.

That's all I know.

Very interesting. Thank you.

 

[agk136]

But it’s not a 6 year contract. He has 2 years left on his rookie deal and then his 4yr/128m extension kicks in worth 32 per year.

Anyone saying otherwise is just trying to fawn over Wentz and put down Dak

Since Wentz got his signing bonus (17.6 million) this year means he has received a portion of this new contract. This means it starts this year with his two remaining years added in.

I'm all in with Dak but he is not worth 32 million a year.

 

[Roadtrip635]

If you could predict Wentz is going to continue to have fluke injury problems, you might have a point. Most teams will take the guy with the higher ceiling. Dak peaked as a rookie and no DC since has been concerned with our passing attack. We face loaded boxes week after week b/c Dak cannot consistently get the ball downfield. Anyone can hand the ball off to Elliot and do 4-6 yard dump passes. We don't need to pay someone 25-30 million per year for that.

There's more than Dak causing loaded boxes. Teams may not have respected out passing attack, but that also had a lot to do with our weapons, before Cooper arrived. Teams didn't fear Dez, Witt, Bease, Twill, Hurns etc beating them either, teams do fear Zeke though. We don't help that with as many multiple TE sets we run, that brings more players into the box. Having 2/3 TEs on the line will naturally bring more players in the box and there was no fear in any one of those no names beating you either.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

If you knew that the 107 Mil was Injury guarantee .... he is only getting 66 million. Its a common mistake when twitter throws up numbers without any context.

What do you mean it’s injury guaranteed? If the Eagles sit him like they did last season you are trying to say he doesn’t get paid?

 

[pansophy]

Lots of people say a lot of things but honestly, most of us don't really know which side is up. There is no reason to give him that much money, at this point in his career. If there were two or three teams that were interested in signing him for that kind of money then yeah, I would then say it's valid but I seriously haven't heard one thing about any team interested in signing Dak for that kind of money. Obviously he's under contract but if a team was interested, then we would have heard about it because everything and anything Cowboys, we always hear about it. I just don't see the wisdom in paying more then you need to for anything. It indicates that you are making decisions based on personal reasoning and not necessarily what might be best for the team.

JMO

I mean I don't disagree. I thought I saw Dak turning the corner at the end of last year, and now there are some quote blurbs that may back up that observation. It seems the thought process is to sign him now so that we can spread it over more years and make the cap hit per year less than it would be if we signed him at the end of this year. If he is a hit then it really won't matter at the end. My concern has been, 'but yeah what if he never really turns the corner as a passer ... then we are stuck in a big contract".

At the beginning of the off season I would have wanted to wait to see a bit more, but no one more about Dak's progress then them, and probably no one is as comfortable with uncertainty as Jones. I've just accepted that we are going to sign him. Wentz's yearly average actually makes me feel better because guys were starting to talk about a 30m+ yearly cap hit and we should get well under that if it is similar to Wentz's contract.