Wentz injury called "RG3 equivalent"

[GreenMean69]

Somehow really good QBs overcome injuries and stuff like that. Foles was not very good in 2014. That's just the reality to anyone who looks at it honestly and without the bias you are clearly showing.

Heaven forbid the Cowboys go through what? They lost Smith this year and Elliott was suspended. And I don't excuse the coaching staff or Prescott for struggling with their missing games. Somehow, good QBs and good coaches can compensate for some injury issues to their team.

Biased ? So you are the type that think stats really matter in football ... Stats are for fantasy football for most part. What matters in Football is wins and losses . So despite all of the crap that happened he still won going 6-2 until injury. His record as a starter under Chip Kelly was 14-4 whille no other QB could win , he did. Losing 2 Oline men #1 WR and 0 run game would effect just baout any QB. There were games where the offense did not even get 50 yards rushing like 4 or 5 games. It was not until later in the season when it was fixed. Facts are facts

 

[BigCowboysHomer]

You have to go back 2 weeks to see Foles outplay the greatest QB of all time on the greatest day of his career.

While the Eagles TEAM won the game, and Foles played very well, he didn't outplay Brady.

Completions/Attempts
Foles 28/43
Brady 28/48

Yards
Brady 505
Foles 373

Avg Yds
Brady 10.5
Foles 8.7

TD
Both had 3

INT
Brady 0
Foles 1

FUMB
Foles 0
Brady 1

Passer RTG
Brady 115.4
Foles 106.1

 

[Sydla]

Biased ? So you are the type that think stats really matter in football ... Stats are for fantasy football for most part. What matters in Football is wins and losses . So despite all of the crap that happened he still won going 6-2 until injury. His record as a starter under Chip Kelly was 14-4 whille no other QB could win , he did. Losing 2 Oline men #1 WR and 0 run game would effect just baout any QB. There were games where the offense did not even get 50 yards rushing like 4 or 5 games. It was not until later in the season when it was fixed. Facts are facts

Stats matter to an extent. I also understand taht teams can win for a variety of factors outside of the QB. It's not 100% accurate to state or assume that if a team wins it's because their QB is playing really well.

But if you want to keep deluding yourself into thinking Foles was playing really well in 2014, have at it.

 

[Longboysfan]

They got Foles...they would be wise and wait until Wentz is fully healed and not push it or let him talk them into going in early before he is 100%

In agreement here on that.

Look what happened to RGIII. Skins rushed him back to make the playoffs.
And that finished off his knee.

 

[Longboysfan]

He'll bounce back not like he's playing a position which requires him to make a lot of plays with his legs.

Yes. But if he's hit the wrong then it mobility gone.

 

[ghostdog]

Yes. But if he's hit the wrong then it mobility gone.

It’s it that way with every player? No one is any more susceptible than any other, well except Romo....

 

[Longboysfan]

It’s it that way with every player? No one is any more susceptible than any other, well except Romo....

Just looking at the most recent example RGIII.

When he was rushed back to play and got hurt again he was a sitting duck throwing the ball.

Part of the game Wentz has is keeping teams honest with his ability to run.
Now that is not a major factor and Wentz is not the speed player RGIII was. But it's there to make teams defenses have to pay attention to him running.

Take that part away completely and you lose a part of your offensive attack plan.
Defenses can sit back and just cover and the rush will get there.

 

[ghostdog]

Just looking at the most recent example RGIII.

When he was rushed back to play and got hurt again he was a sitting duck throwing the ball.

Part of the game Wentz has is keeping teams honest with his ability to run.
Now that is not a major factor and Wentz is not the speed player RGIII was. But it's there to make teams defenses have to pay attention to him running.

Take that part away completely and you lose a part of your offensive attack plan.
Defenses can sit back and just cover and the rush will get there.

I was at the game when RGIII got hurt again. He was trying to make an impossible throw against his body running full speed. Good luck with that. And he would have been so much better if had learned to play the game in his head first. He relied totally on his physical abilities. Dad really. Carson runs ONLY when it’s needed. It’s not part of the offense. How much did you see Foles run?
And Carson wants defenses sitting back. When they’re in that mode he can attack. His game is straight attack. The really good part is he is just as dangerous when team do attack him. He had the highest passer rating against the blitz. What that shows is a student of the game, the part that escaped RGIII. So to compare them in any way is silly. Tom Brady blow out his knee too, yep, that really set him back. He was never the same, he won more championships....

 

[Sydla]

I was at the game when RGIII got hurt again. He was trying to make an impossible throw against his body running full speed. Good luck with that. And he would have been so much better if had learned to play the game in his head first. He relied totally on his physical abilities. Dad really. Carson runs ONLY when it’s needed. It’s not part of the offense. How much did you see Foles run?
And Carson wants defenses sitting back. When they’re in that mode he can attack. His game is straight attack. The really good part is he is just as dangerous when team do attack him. He had the highest passer rating against the blitz. What that shows is a student of the game, the part that escaped RGIII. So to compare them in any way is silly. Tom Brady blow out his knee too, yep, that really set him back. He was never the same, he won more championships....

A few things.

1) To deny that Wentz's legs are a big part of his game is foolish. What made him really special last year was his ability to move around the pocket and continue to make throws down the field. So a comparison to Brady and his ACL is a real stretch because Brady never had mobility and didn't rely on his legs as much as Wentz. I have no idea if Wentz will be affected (frankly, I think he's going to be just fine) but to try to argue that there couldn't be an issue here going forward because hey, Tom Brady blew his knee out, kind of shows a lack of understanding of what each QB is. On the flipside, comparing him to RG3 like some Cowboys have is equally silly.

2) Eagles tweaked the offense for Foles largely because he's immobile and they still had some concerns about Big V at LT and pressure that Wentz had been taking when healthy. So they went with more RPOs, short passes, etc. That's not to say Foles didn't attack down the field at times, but Pederson did a fantastic job in understanding the strengths of each QB and tailoring game plans for those guys. The fact Foles didn't run is because he can't really run and the Eagles catered the offense around him. With Wentz, and his ability to move around the pocket and make plays with his legs and extend plays, they called a different game.

 

[GreenMean69]

A few things.


2) Eagles tweaked the offense for Foles largely because he's immobile

That's another thing people like to say about Foles and could not be more wrong. Foles is actually not to bad mobility wise and he is a tremendous athlete. He was offered two different scholarships to play basketball. You have to be pretty mobile and have some moves to be able to do that. He would rather rely on his arm and have less risk of injury then to gain a few yards that could mean nothing ... even more so if he got hurt .

 

[ghostdog]

This is stupid on another level. In your first point you state how Carson ability to move in pocket and make throws is a big part of his game. Isnt THAT exactly what Brady does??? He is the best in the business at sliding up in the pocket to make throws. So in your ignorance you made my point to a tee! Thanks.
And to point number two, why wouldn’t he do exactly the same thing with Carson starting out? They could use RPOs to the same effect or even more so with Carson. In your effort to come at me you made yourself look really stupid. Carson doesn’t have to run the ball. He will be just fine operating inside the pocket. He knows he is one QB who teams would rather take off like Dak. The thing that make Nick and Carson great at RPOs is they don’t take theirs off their options. Dak? Not so much. He will have to reset and it’s going to get him killed.

 

[Bigdog]

Just looking at the most recent example RGIII.

When he was rushed back to play and got hurt again he was a sitting duck throwing the ball.

Part of the game Wentz has is keeping teams honest with his ability to run.
Now that is not a major factor and Wentz is not the speed player RGIII was. But it's there to make teams defenses have to pay attention to him running.

Take that part away completely and you lose a part of your offensive attack plan.
Defenses can sit back and just cover and the rush will get there.

Except for our rush if Lawrence is not resigned or franchised

 

[Sydla]

That's another thing people like to say about Foles and could not be more wrong. Foles is actually not to bad mobility wise and he is a tremendous athlete. He was offered two different scholarships to play basketball. You have to be pretty mobile and have some moves to be able to do that. He would rather rely on his arm and have less risk of injury then to gain a few yards that could mean nothing ... even more so if he got hurt .

Maybe "immobile" is technically not the most correct description but most certainly get the point. He's not a mobile QB in the way Rodgers, Wentz, etc. are mobile QBs. He's not nimble and quick on his feet, he doesn't move around the pocket and consistently extend plays like those guys, etc.

 

[Valorius]

Don't know.

Resumes change.

I have not seen this guy take a team to a Superbowl where he plays the whole season.

He's had flashes for sure.

Nothing against him.

Just think the body of work remains to be seen.

Nick Foles body of work thus far in his career:

No.1 all time Eagles regular season passer rating leader (92.7)
No.1 all time single season Eagles passer rating leader (113.2)
No.1 all time Eagles single season compl% (64.0, Tie D.Mcnabb)
No.1 all time Eagles playoff TD/INT ratio: 8:1
No.1 all time Eagles single season TD/INT ratio: 13.5:1
No.1 all time Eagles career TD/INT ratio: 2.7:1
No.1 all time Eagles career TD% (5.1%)
No.1 all time Eagles playoff TD% (5.8%)
No.1 all time Eagles career Int% (1.9%)
No.1 all time Eagles career playoff Int% (0.7%)
No.1 all time Eagles playoff winning % (.750)
No.1 all time Eagles and NFL single game TD record holder (7)
No.1 all time NFL TD/INT ratio after 25 starts
No.1 all time NFL single month passer rating (145+, Nov 2013)
No.1 all time NFL playoff completion % (71.9%)
No.1 all time NFL single season turn over ratio (2013, 13.5:1)
No.1 all time NFL single postseason completion % (72.6%)
No.1 all time NFL career playoff passer rating (113.2)
No.3 all time NFL single season passer rating 119.2 (A. Rodgers,P. Manning)
No.3 all time NFL single postseason playoff passer rating (J.Flacco 1st, D. Brees 2nd)
No.3 all time Eagles career TD% (tie D.McNabb)
No.7 NFL all time Int% (tie 2.1%)

*Nick Foles is one of 2 QB's in NFL history to have over a 100
passer rating in 1st 4 Playoff games (T. Aikman)
*Nick Foles is one of 2 NFL QB's to pass for over 75%
completions in consecutive playoff games (J. Montana)
*Nick Foles is one of 2 QB's in NFL history to pass for 7 TD's
and 0 INT's in a single game (P.Manning)
*Nick Foles is one of 4 QB's in NFL history to pass for over
300yds in consecutive playoff games (Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees,Tom Brady)
*Nick Foles is the only QB in NFL history to both pass for and catch a TD in a Superbowl
*Nick Foles rating against the blitz in SB LII was 133.1
*Nick Foles Eagles career regular season passer rating of 92.7
is the 13th greatest in NFL history, ahead of J.Montana, A.Luck,
D.Marino, B.Favre, J.Kelly, E.Manning, R.Staubach and
countless other Superbowl winning QB's.

 

[Valorius]

I am not wrong.

He had a rating of 81.4. That would have ranked him 23rd in the league amongst starters who started more than 10 games. 23rd.

You can throw in all the excuses you want, but Foles was not great in 2014 either. He was mediocre to bad.

He had a disheveled O-line, and his top WR, perhaps the greatest deep threat in the NFL over the past decade, was cut by Chump Kelly.

We saw what happened to Dak Prescott's numbers when his O-line was hampered by just 1 injury and his RB was suspended. The whole team fell completely to pieces. In a similar circumstance, Foles went 6-2.

 

[Valorius]

Maybe "immobile" is technically not the most correct description but most certainly get the point. He's not a mobile QB in the way Rodgers, Wentz, etc. are mobile QBs. He's not nimble and quick on his feet, he doesn't move around the pocket and consistently extend plays like those guys, etc.

Watch the 4th and 1 play with the Eagles trailing in the Superbowl and playing from their own side of the field. Foles showed excellent pocket mobility on that play, and delivered a perfect strike under heavy pressure under what is absolutely the most pressure cooked scenario imaginable for an NFL QB.

 

[Valorius]

While the Eagles TEAM won the game, and Foles played very well, he didn't outplay Brady.

Completions/Attempts
Foles 28/43
Brady 28/48

Yards
Brady 505
Foles 373

Avg Yds
Brady 10.5
Foles 8.7

TD
Both had 3

INT
Brady 0
Foles 1

FUMB
Foles 0
Brady 1

Passer RTG
Brady 115.4
Foles 106.1

Foles had an 89 QBR to Brady's 84 QBR.

Foles outplayed brady.

 

[Valorius]

A few things.

1) To deny that Wentz's legs are a big part of his game is foolish. What made him really special last year was his ability to move around the pocket and continue to make throws down the field. So a comparison to Brady and his ACL is a real stretch because Brady never had mobility and didn't rely on his legs as much as Wentz. I have no idea if Wentz will be affected (frankly, I think he's going to be just fine) but to try to argue that there couldn't be an issue here going forward because hey, Tom Brady blew his knee out, kind of shows a lack of understanding of what each QB is. On the flipside, comparing him to RG3 like some Cowboys have is equally silly.

2) Eagles tweaked the offense for Foles largely because he's immobile and they still had some concerns about Big V at LT and pressure that Wentz had been taking when healthy. So they went with more RPOs, short passes, etc. That's not to say Foles didn't attack down the field at times, but Pederson did a fantastic job in understanding the strengths of each QB and tailoring game plans for those guys. The fact Foles didn't run is because he can't really run and the Eagles catered the offense around him. With Wentz, and his ability to move around the pocket and make plays with his legs and extend plays, they called a different game.

The Eagles ran all of 8 RPO's in the Superbowl. Foles attacked downfield again and again in not just the Superbowl, but the NFC championship game as well. Statistically, that 1-2 punch of games is among the greatest in NFL history.

In that stretch Nick Foles became just the 2nd QB in NFL history to pass for over a 100 rating in his first 4 playoff games (T. Aikman), only the 2nd QB to pass for over 75% completions in consecutive playoff games (J. Montana), and just the 4th player to ever pass for over 300 yds in consecutive playoff games (A.Rodgers, D.Brees, T.Brady).

Nick Foles had literally the 3rd highest ranked post season of all time.

 

[Sydla]

Watch the 4th and 1 play with the Eagles trailing in the Superbowl and playing from their own side of the field. Foles showed excellent pocket mobility on that play, and delivered a perfect strike under heavy pressure under what is absolutely the most pressure cooked scenario imaginable for an NFL QB.

Got it.

So one play proves he has excellent pocket mobility.

Again, if you guys want to think Foles is also a mobile QB, have at it.

Maybe by the end of this, you'll convince yourselves he also cured cancer.

 

[BigCowboysHomer]

Foles had an 89 QBR to Brady's 84 QBR.

Foles outplayed brady.

Quarterback rating? You're going to ignore the fact that Brady threw for over 100 yards more than Foles and had a higher passer rating, and cling to that phony ESPN-only QBR stat? QBR is a joke.

ESPN's QBR is the dumbest stat in sports (Tom Brady was fifth, behind Ryan Fitzpatrick!)

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/11/esp...tom-brady-behind-ryan-fitzpatrick-what-is-qbr

Charlie Batch’s 186-yard, two-pick game has ESPN’s best QBR ever
Posted by Michael David Smith on November 19, 2015, 4:13 PM EST

Getty Images

There’s a risk of beating a dead horse when you talk about QBR, ESPN’s proprietary statistic that was rolled out with great fanfare four years ago as the “one stat that measures the totality of a quarterback’s performance.” I said plenty about QBR last week, and perhaps no more needs to be said.

But today I decided to dig a little deeper into what is, according to QBR, the greatest game any quarterback has ever played: Charlie Batch’s 186-yard, two-interception performance against the Buccaneers in 2010.

Really. Under “All-Time Best Games” on ESPN.com’s QBR page, the top game on the list is an utterly forgettable game that Batch played in place of the suspended Ben Roethlisberger in 2010. I couldn’t comprehend how 186 yards and two interceptions could add up to the greatest game ever played, with a 99.9 QBR on a scale of 0-100, but then again I didn’t remember exactly what Batch did in that game, and I know ESPN claims that QBR benefits from tape analysis that includes dropped passes and performance under pressure and other things that the traditional stats overlook. So I decided to re-watch Batch’s game and see how it looked...

To review, in that Steelers-Buccaneers game, Batch threw 17 passes. Two of them were interceptions thrown directly into the hands of the opposing defense. Two of them were long touchdown passes that easily could have been intercepted if the defensive backs had done their jobs. One was a legitimately good touchdown pass. On the other passes, Batch went 9-for-12 for 90 yards.

Does that sound to you like the greatest game any quarterback has ever played in NFL history? If it does, there might be a place for you in ESPN’s analytics department.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...6-yard-two-pick-game-has-espns-best-qbr-ever/

Further controversy erupted when the Total QBR system gave the Denver Broncos' Tim Tebow a higher QBR than the Green Bay Packers' Aaron Rodgers in their respective Week 5 contests in 2011. Noting that Rodgers completed 26 of 39 passes for 396 yards and two touchdowns in a win over the Atlanta Falcons, while Tebow completed four of 10 passes for 79 yards and a touchdown, and six rushes for 38 yards and a touchdown, in a loss to the San Diego Chargers. Rodgers himself was surprised: "I saw the [QBR stats] and chuckled to myself. I played a full game, [Tebow] played the half. He completed four passes, I completed 26. I think it incorporates QB runs as well ... The weighting of it doesn't make a whole lot of sense."

In a more recent example, a game played on September 24, 2017, Alex Smith of Kansas City Chiefs received an inexplicable QBR of 7.8, half as much as the equally-bad QBR of 16.1 for his counterpart Philip Rivers of the Los Angeles Chargers, even though Smith had a higher completion rate (16/21 vs. 20/40), a better average per completion (7.8 yds vs. 5.9), a far superior TD/int ratio (2-0 vs. 0-3), and won the game handily 24-10. For comparison, the passer RTG, 128.1 for Smith and 37.2 for Rivers, was by far a better metric of success. Mike Florio of Profootballtalk.com wrote that he'll "continue to ignore ESPN’s Total QBR stat."

Again, Foles played very well, but only the most desperate Eagles fan would use QBR to say Foles outplayed Brady.