Wentz vs Dak

[bayeslife]

I understand liking Wentz as a prospect more. What I don't get is the sheer level of animosity towards Dak from Cowboys fans. It's bizarre.

It's because people care about being right about their pick more than rooting for the Cowboys. I was a huge Jalen Ramsey guy but I've since hopped on the Elliot wagon and have no issue doing so

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I understand liking Wentz as a prospect more. What I don't get is the sheer level of animosity towards Dak from Cowboys fans. It's bizarre.

Well you've got some folks that let it all hang out for Wentz this past offseason and for them to backtrack at all is a sign of weakness. LOL!

And then you have some folks that disliked Prescott period– no matter what round the Cowboys would draft him in. They just thought he was a lousy prospect– The have the same problems as the Wentz-lovers, they can't backtrack now or their "evaluation skills" will look weak.

 

[Ken]

Look at the star power in that list wow

It is the most misleading and worthless stat I have seen.

Ya, he was 84% completion throwing dump off...but the Eagles were only 3-15 on 3rd down.....

Go figure.

 

[Doomsday101]

It is the most misleading and worthless stat I have seen.

Ya, he was 84% completion throwing dump off...but the Eagles were only 3-15 on 3rd down.....

Go figure.

True and those short passes are a big part of the WCO. I will say in watching Wentz I hate to say it but I think he is going to be a very good player and he like Dak have only played in 2 games in this league. He nor Dak are finished products yet both are performing at a higher level that some vets in this league.

 

[CATCH17]

I don't think I've ever seen the media go so gah-gah over a QB that threw for a whopping 190 yards against the Bears.


Wentz is surely an impressive athlete. He's got a cannon for an arm and seems to understand a complex WCO system already. But, I think he has some massive holes in his game, particularly his inability to read blitzes and avoid big time hits in the pocket. People like to romanticize the QB that 'hangs in there to take the hit', but it doesn't lead to long careers and the best QB's hang in there and still find a way to avoid the hit.


Also, I think Wentz has some poor throwing mechanics that usually causes his passes to sail on him or skip off the turf badly. While one can correct those mechanics over time, Wentz doesn't appear to have made any real improvement during training camp and then was injured in preseason. And when you start guys like him right away, they may never get it. Dak has made a dramatic turnaround in his mechanics and he’s at the point where they seem to creep up from time to time, but for the most part he has them down pat.


The other thing is that Dak and Wentz had different mechanical issues. Dak’s was a footwork problem and Wentz’s is a windup issue (and I’m not nutty about his footwork either). My belief is that footwork is easier to improve. You might see a QB struggle to change his footwork in a WCO, but in general with an offseason of work they can make the adjustment to their footwork. Throwing motion issues are a different animal. It’s hard for QB’s to adjust to how they throw the ball. Look at QB’s like Jason Campbell, Byron Leftwich, etc…they never really adjusted their windup and it was always a problem for them. I don’t think Wentz quite has their big windup, but you can see it from time to time and the ball is poorly thrown.


What Wentz has going for him is a good defense and likely a very good offensive mind at head coach. That can keep him off the field and put him in advantageous situations where receivers get wide open and he’s throwing a lot of high percentage passes.




YR

I expect Wentz to struggle this year for some of the reasons you mentioned.. The jump in level of competition was huge for him and some of the things he got away with he won't get away with all year long.

Luckily for him he can escape and buy time but it does leave him at risk to get injured.

Eventually though he will get a lot of his flaws cleaned up. He's got good coaching in Philly.

 

[CATCH17]

True and those short passes are a big part of the WCO. I will say in watching Wentz I hate to say it but I think he is going to be a very good player and he like Dak have only played in 2 games in this league. He nor Dak are finished products yet both are performing at a higher level that some vets in this league.

With some guys you can just tell.

The floor is not going to fall out from under Dak or Wentz.

What I worry about with Dak is him not being a playmaker. I worry that he is being taught to be conservative and fears making mistakes so much that big plays are non-existent. It's a non-issue right now. It's just a long term thing i'm looking at.

In the pre-season he was making big plays so hopefully we see that again.

I just don't like how we are having to chip our way up the field while also seeing 8 & 9 man fronts.

 

[bayeslife]

With some guys you can just tell.

The floor is not going to fall out from under Dak or Wentz.

What I worry about with Dak is him not being a playmaker. I worry that he is being taught to be conservative and fears making mistakes so much that big plays are non-existent. It's a non-issue right now. It's just a long term thing i'm looking at.

In the pre-season he was making big plays so hopefully we see that again.

I just don't like how we are having to chip our way up the field while also seeing 8 & 9 man fronts.

I haven't seen Wentz lead his team down the field for a game winning touchdown on the road

 

[darthseinfeld]

True and those short passes are a big part of the WCO. I will say in watching Wentz I hate to say it but I think he is going to be a very good player and he like Dak have only played in 2 games in this league. He nor Dak are finished products yet both are performing at a higher level that some vets in this league.

I think our rivalry with the Eagles atop the NFCE is going to be renewed over the next 5 or so seasons. Grudens Skins are falling apart and the Giants are at a crossroads with Manning and will need to replace him sometime in the next 3 years

 

[Doomsday101]

With some guys you can just tell.

The floor is not going to fall out from under Dak or Wentz.

What I worry about with Dak is him not being a playmaker. I worry that he is being taught to be conservative and fears making mistakes so much that big plays are non-existent. It's a non-issue right now. It's just a long term thing i'm looking at.

In the pre-season he was making big plays so hopefully we see that again.

I just don't like how we are having to chip our way up the field while also seeing 8 & 9 man fronts.

I think Dak has option on all of his pass plays it is not 1 read and throw it away. Right now he is not forcing the ball and frankly with the Cowboys defense controlling the ball is not a bad thing right now Dallas has over a 9 min advantage in TOP. I don't think it is a fear of turning it over I think he is not looking to force the ball when he has players open. Dallas has to do better in the redzone but I don't see a problem for him or this offense moving the ball up and down the field.

 

[CATCH17]

I haven't seen Wentz lead his team down the field for a game winning touchdown on the road

I haven't seen Wentz drive his team 95 yards for a touchdown with the clock running out in the Superbowl while being in a dome with their away color jerseys on.

 

[DFWJC]

Exactly the same

1. both drafted #2
2. Wentz takes all those stupid hits that RG3 takes (already had an injury in preseason)
3. the majority of his passes vs the Bears were less than 5 yards from the line of scrimmage, the lone TD pass was behind the line.
4. poor throwing mechanics
5. Both could throw a nice deep ball.
6. Trouble reading blitzes

Let's not forget he has played 2 very weak teams so far, those come off at the top of my head

I'm not here to sell Wentz, but I don't think he compares much at all with RG3

• getting drafted #2 overall has nothing to do with the player evaluation on similarities...they could be opposites and drafted in the same slot but different years..
• RG3 was way faster and more dynamic runner, but not nearly as sturdy
• Taking dumb hits after two games does not mean it's a career long thing
• Wentz' mechanics are WAY better
• The short passes were based on taking what was given and a rookie being told to be careful He does not seem at all like a dink and dunker
• Wentz is way more savvy that RG3 at readying defense overall at this stage. And longer term is not even close. RG3 STILL can't read defenses well, while most say that will be a strength of Wentz'

It's a really bad comparison, imo.

But hey, agree to disagree.

 

[CATCH17]

I'm not here to sell Wentz, but I don't think he compares much at all with RG3

• getting drafted #2 overall has nothing to do with the player evaluation on similarities...they could be opposites and drafted in the same slot but different years..
• RG3 was way faster and more dynamic runner, but not nearly as sturdy
• Taking dumb hits after two games does not mean it's a career long thing
• Wentz' mechanics are WAY better
• The short passes were based on taking what was given and a rookie being told to be careful He does not seem at all like a dink and dunker
• Wentz is way more savvy that RG3 at readying defense overall at this stage. And longer term is not even close. RG3 STILL can't read defenses well, while most say that will be a strength of Wentz'

It's a really bad comparison, imo.

But hey, agree to disagree.

I don't think we've ever seen a flash in the pan rookie like RG3.

Usually if your that good that early you're just a good QB. He's horrible and I don't expect to see digression like that from any rookie QB that plays well.

 

[CWR]

Ha! I love the proud Brian pop up lol

 

[CWR]

If he had ice water in his veins he would be dead. What you're saying can't be true medically.

Not true, as a medic Ive given hypothermia therapy post arrest several times. It can be done and he indeed has ice water in his veins.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I'm not here to sell Wentz, but I don't think he compares much at all with RG3

• getting drafted #2 overall has nothing to do with the player evaluation on similarities...they could be opposites and drafted in the same slot but different years..
• RG3 was way faster and more dynamic runner, but not nearly as sturdy
• Taking dumb hits after two games does not mean it's a career long thing
• Wentz' mechanics are WAY better
• The short passes were based on taking what was given and a rookie being told to be careful He does not seem at all like a dink and dunker
• Wentz is way more savvy that RG3 at readying defense overall at this stage. And longer term is not even close. RG3 STILL can't read defenses well, while most say that will be a strength of Wentz'

It's a really bad comparison, imo.

But hey, agree to disagree.

I agree with that.

RG3 was a way better athlete.

Wentz isn't nearly the athlete RG3 is but he's a better QB.

 

[BoysfanfromCanada]

In the end I'll always rather have Dak and Zeke instead of Wentz and Wendall Smallwood (their closest pick to our compensatory 4th round pick, a rb about 17 picks later) based on potential alone.

 

[Ken]

I

True and those short passes are a big part of the WCO. I will say in watching Wentz I hate to say it but I think he is going to be a very good player and he like Dak have only played in 2 games in this league. He nor Dak are finished products yet both are performing at a higher level that some vets in this league.

I agree, it was obvious Wentz, is already better than Cutler....

 

[WillieBeamen]

Its sickening that we have "Cowboys fans" on here degrading one of our own, for a player on another team

I get it, we didnt draft the player you wanted. Get over it, we cant re-do the draft

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I

I agree, it was obvious Wentz, is already better than Cutler....

Agreed.

 

[Boyzmamacita]

I haven't seen Wentz drive his team 95 yards for a touchdown with the clock running out in the Superbowl while being in a dome with their away color jerseys on.

Well, he's an Eagle so...