What does an acceptable rebuild transition period look like for you?

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I'm just curious for those who want to blow it up, or at the very least move on from Dak. How long would you be comfortable absolutely sucking after?
This isn't a loaded question either, or a disguised thread to fearmonger what losing dak would look like. I'm just coming around, and wondering how others feel.

I'd hate just being terrible with no hope for 3 years +.

28 years and counting.

 

[KJJ]

I showed Matt Ryan’s poor seasons ( back to back 4-12 and 6-10) sandwiched between an NFCCG and his SB appearance (when he won the MVP award). That first 4-12 season was his sixth year in the league (not exactly rookie or even around rookie season). There are others if you need further evidence.

I never said good QB’s do not have anything to do with their team’s success stats-wise. They do not magically add lots of wins independent of surrounding cast (which it sounds like you do believe). I suppose if I wanted I could put some type of theoretical statistical method together to attempt to value wins above surrounding cast. Only a tiny fraction of even the best QB’s have a substantial impact on regular season and playoff wins. This is the issue-everyone over values QB’s in regular season wins and losses. Brock Purdy has way more in common with Jimmy Garoppolo than he does Pat Mahomes.

Again, where did I say good to great QBs never have or had any bad seasons? I never said that! I said if a QB isn’t getting it done by year three, you have a problem and you got it all twisted. Either you’re trying to create arguments or you can’t comprehend. You claimed Quincy Carter had next to nothing to do with the Cowboys success in 2003 and that’s simply not true. He more than doubled his production from the previous season and made a few real good plays, including a great game winning TD pass to Antonio Bryant against Carolina with less than a minute to play. No one is saying he had a great season, so don’t get it twisted but he made some plays that season to help us win some games.

 

[KJJ]

You are attempting to make Carter’s contribution a bigger deal than it was. He kinda drove the bus-which when you look at the totality of his career is not that big of a deal. The team was much improved more so because of a handful of useful additions, an actual NFL head coach with real authority, team buy in, and outstanding defense.

He drove the bus but he made some real good plays that season including that great TD throw to Antonio Bryant with less than a minute to play against Carolina. He had almost 3400 yards passing that season, which was more than double from the previous season and he had 10 more TD passes than the previous season. We had the same additions the following season with Vinny and ended up going 6-10.

 

[Reid1boys]

I would imagine Lamb is the type of player you could get two 1st for. It would be similar value to the Tyreek Hill trade. KC didn't get 2 1sts, however they did get 5 picks in total, and hitting on Trent McDuffie was a big reason they were able to win it all this year. Anything less than two 1sts and I would say I would need more details on how high those picks are before making a decision.

Still it goes back to the total package though whereas you're choosing to only focus on one piece at a time. In a situation where you move on from Lamb you'd be getting multiple draft picks in return and freeing up $30M annually with the idea that the sum of all those pieces outweigh the value of Lamb alone. Yes, there is certainly a chance that you completely swing and miss, but there is also a chance that Lamb injures his ACL and isnt 100% until 2026. Plus there is a chance the Cowboys don't miss and come out way ahead.

I'm not saying you have to move on from Lamb either, but the fear of this team actually taking a calculated risk to improve the team is part of what has held it back in my opinion. The more quality players you can have on rookie deals the larger the margin for error on something like paying a Dak/Parsons/Lamb record setting deals. It's simply a game where it becomes tough to keep everyone and upgrade the roster at the same time. The Cowboys are going through that right now.

and I would argue we have done a FANTASTIC job at having young players. Our defense was loaded with young players and we couldnt ask for much more from that unit. And we still didnt win a super bowl. Ill keep the sure thing in Cee Dee Lamb, personally.

 

[Reid1boys]

Is there a guarantee that CD continues to play at a high level every year? Especially, if we have no idea who our QB will be after Dak.

If the plan is to get rid of Dak (which it isnt) then who cares if we keep Lamb. We would be the jets anyways... so screw it. Get rid of Diggs, Bland, Parsons, Cee Dee, Ferguson, Dak... get rid of them all. We might win 1 game.... but hey, look at all that cap money we would be saving.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Dak was runner up for MVP. He lead the league in multiple categories.

When's the parade?

 

[Chasing6]

When's the parade?

He don't need no stinking parade.

But if their was one in Texas, those terrorists
would have been shot dead.

 

[PAPPYDOG]

I'm just curious for those who want to blow it up, or at the very least move on from Dak. How long would you be comfortable absolutely sucking after?
This isn't a loaded question either, or a disguised thread to fearmonger what losing dak would look like. I'm just coming around, and wondering how others feel.

I'd hate just being terrible with no hope for 3 years +.

In the 3rd year, you should be making the playoffs as a wildcard team.

 

[PAPPYDOG]

He don't need no stinking parade.

But if their was one in Texas, those terrorists
would have been shot dead.

Huh, we have Terrorists?
Should we be worried?

 

[Chasing6]

Huh, we have Terrorists?
Should we be worried?

Well whatever you want to call them that shot people at the SB parade.

 

[PAPPYDOG]

Well whatever you want to call them that shot people at the SB parade.

Oh, that ya sad............sicko's might work.

 

[kskboys]

Huh, we have Terrorists?
Should we be worried?

Absolutely. And it's getting worse.

 

[kskboys]

and I would argue we have done a FANTASTIC job at having young players. Our defense was loaded with young players and we couldnt ask for much more from that unit. And we still didnt win a super bowl. Ill keep the sure thing in Cee Dee Lamb, personally.

Yup. Because we took very bad 2nd round choices. Add in an OG, a couple LB's, and a DT insted of what we did take, and we'd have beaten GB.

 

[KJJ]

You are attempting to make Carter’s contribution a bigger deal than it was.

Show me where I attempted to make his contribution bigger than it was? I never said he had a great season and carried the team, but he did show noticeable improvement over the previous season and made some nice plays. How can you deny that? You said he had next to nothing to do with the 2003 success which is completely untrue.

Carter had next to nothing to do with the 2003 season success.

 

[Coogiguy03]

One without Stephen and Jerry

 

[Blitzen]

He drove the bus but he made some real good plays that season including that great TD throw to Antonio Bryant with less than a minute to play against Carolina. He had almost 3400 yards passing that season, which was more than double from the previous season and he had 10 more TD passes than the previous season. We had the same additions the following season with Vinny and ended up going 6-10.

And this is the heart of my stance. Vinny Testaverde passed for 3532 yards with 17 TDs/20 INTs in 15 games at the ripe age of 41 (the stat line look familiar?). The team went from scoring 289 points in 2003 to 293 in 2004.

The defense went from 2nd in scoring against to 28th (allowing 260 points in 2003 to 405 points in 2004)-probably had something to do with the harder schedule based on the previous season’s results too.

If you cannot see that the Carter had far less to do with the wins in 2003 than the team defense and some first year Parcell’s magic I cannot show you in more plain mathematical logic.

Most QB’s have very little say in wins and losses other than NOT TURNING the ball over to the other team and taking points when the opponent gives them. The better the offensive surrounding cast, the easier it is to take safe pathways to scoring points (and the current Cowboy’s QB is a master at taking safe pathways when available).

 

[KJJ]

And this is the heart of my stance. Vinny Testaverde passed for 3532 yards with 17 TDs/20 INTs in 15 games at the ripe age of 41 (the stat line look familiar?). The team went from scoring 289 points in 2003 to 293 in 2004.

The passing numbers were similar but Carter added 257 yards rushing with a couple of rushing TDs. His mobility added a lot to our offense. Vinny only had 38 yards rushing. The team wasn’t excited about a 41 year old QB. Our play sunk with him and it led to only 6 wins.

 

[Blitzen]

The passing numbers were similar but Carter added 257 yards rushing with a couple of rushing TDs. His mobility added a lot to our offense. Vinny only had 38 yards rushing. The team wasn’t excited about a 41 year old QB. Our play sunk with him and it led to only 6 wins.

Going down with the ship? So you are making the argument that the team’s attitude towards Vinny made the defense go from 2nd to 28th in one season? That Carter’s 257 yards rushing was so amazing in 2003 that the team went backwards in total team yardage (~30 yards) on offense and in points scored (4 points) from 2003 to 2004? That’s shooting from the gut-not the brain. That highlight pass play could not happen with Antonio Bryant (and Vinny) anyway when he threw a major tantrum with Bill during the 2004 offseason-and was traded a little after games began.

 

[kskboys]

Show me where I attempted to make his contribution bigger than it was? I never said he had a great season and carried the team, but he did show noticeable improvement over the previous season and made some nice plays. How can you deny that? You said he had next to nothing to do with the 2003 success which is completely untrue.

Not really. Carter was terrible. He was drug to the playoffs by the #1 D.

 

[Croomraider]

When was the last time Dallas had a top 5 pick and selected a QB? Ohhhh they won 3 superbowls..... ding ding ding ding