What does an acceptable rebuild transition period look like for you?

[Blitzen]

The success of the 2003 season had something to do with Carter. He had by far his most productive season. We generated more offense that season. We ranked 8 spots higher than the previous season. Parcels got the defense to perform better, which was pretty much the same players from the previous season. You seem to want to go on and on with this. It’s obvious we don’t agree on anything and I have better things to do than to spend multiple days wasting time. It’s not like our opinions are going to change. If you want to continue feel free but I’m moving on to other topics.

Carter had next to nothing to do with the 2003 season success. They were 27th in offense in points scored and middle of the pack in yards. Lots of the wins were low scoring affairs. He was never able to build off it.

My opinions change when good solid facts and reasoned arguments back up generalized thoughts. I provided some evidence that very good QBs can have terrible regular season wins/losses (even when healthy and playing all the games and even after they have established themselves). It’s up to you to disregard it and plow on or accept it as meaning a very good QB cannot dictate regular season success much given certain surrounding cast.

 

[thunderpimp91]

How? They rebuilt their team and then went and got a QB. That is how.

This is why I think it is a dumb investment for crappy teams to draft a QB with the number 1 pick. If your team is atrocious a QB is not going to help.

I don't disagree. If I were a team like New England this year I would avoid going QB altogether. Spend a year building up the rest of the roster and then look for a QB once they can be put into a situation where they can actually succeed. If I'm Chicago I don't hesitate one second to trade back for a kings ransom. It makes zero sense to me to invest in a QB without the rest of the pieces.

 

[Chasing6]

I don't disagree. If I were a team like New England this year I would avoid going QB altogether. Spend a year building up the rest of the roster and then look for a QB once they can be put into a situation where they can actually succeed. If I'm Chicago I don't hesitate one second to trade back for a kings ransom. It makes zero sense to me to invest in a QB without the rest of the pieces.

100%.

It is much cheaper to build the team first, then get your cheap rookie QB.

If you get your QB first, by the time you build the team, your QB is on his new giant contract and you have to let people go to make room.

 

[Reid1boys]

What was stupid was trading 3 first round picks for Trance.

How many super star WR's did Brady have again?

If you like the Super Star approach and want to spend half your salary cap on 6 players, you will struggling to win a SB.

Have a few Superstars, and a bad playoff team. Sell tickets and merch and call it a season.

when we get Mahomes, or Brady... you let me know. Until then.........

 

[Chasing6]

when we get Mahomes, or Brady... you let me know. Until then.........

When we build the right team we only need a Dilfer. You let me know when we build a team.

 

[thunderpimp91]

any GM that isnt an idiot woul dnever do that.

So you f=draft a top 4 WR and then you want to get rid of him as soon as he is due a contract? You strike Gold with Parsons and then want to trade him away? It always amazes me when people want to trade away super start players. Just stupid is all I can say.

If you can get a taker for Lamb for 2 1sts I do it all day every day. Fixes your cap situation, nets you two premium picks, and you can even be in the running for a top free agent this year if you wanted to. That is exactly how you build a complete roster. I'm skeptical he makes it to free agency so maybe its not the best example, but if you could land a Chris Jones while also getting 2 1st round picks in exchange for Lamb you would say no?

It's similar to what KC did moving on from Tyreek Hill and that's worked out pretty well for them. I'm a massive Ceedee Lamb fan, but the lack of willingness to every now and then cash in on a player when their value will never be higher is exactly what's held this franchise back for so long.

 

[KJJ]

Carter had next to nothing to do with the 2003 season success. They were 27th in offense in points scored and middle of the pack in yards. Lots of the wins were low scoring affairs. He was never able to build off it.

My opinions change when good solid facts and reasoned arguments back up generalized thoughts. I provided some evidence that very good QBs can have terrible regular season wins/losses (even when healthy and playing all the games and even after they have established themselves). It’s up to you to disregard it and plow on or accept it as meaning a very good QB cannot dictate regular season success much given certain surrounding cast.

You have no idea what you’re talking about if you think a QB has nothing to do with their teams success. Are you serious? A very good QB can dictate regular season success and anyone who doesn’t think so knows absolutely nothing about football. Pointing out Hall of Fame QBs that struggled on bad teams their first year or two doesn’t refute anything I stated earlier in this thread. You’re just looking to spend another day arguing. Have fun wasting your time.

 

[Chasing6]

If you can get a taker for Lamb for 2 1sts I do it all day every day. Fixes your cap situation, nets you two premium picks, and you can even be in the running for a top free agent this year if you wanted to. That is exactly how you build a complete roster. I'm skeptical he makes it to free agency so maybe its not the best example, but if you could land a Chris Jones while also getting 2 1st round picks in exchange for Lamb you would say no?

It's similar to what KC did moving on from Tyreek Hill and that's worked out pretty well for them. I'm a massive Ceedee Lamb fan, but the lack of willingness to every now and then cash in on a player when their value will never be higher is exactly what's held this franchise back for so long.

You fail to recognize that these people think Mahomes won the SB all by himself.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Why the assumption this franchise can't win and absolutely suck without Dak?

Who is playing QB? You dont have a top flight QB, you dont win. Period.

You are most likely looking at 2 years of sub .500 football after moving on from Prescott. And that is if you hit on QB in the draft. If we move on in 2025 it's most likely that 1) We wont he drafting high enough to get a franchise QB. 2) 2025 looks like a weak QB class. So 2025 is likely a tank year.

Hitting on a QB in 2026 draft puts us back on a contention trajectory. If you get a Stroud or Herbert level rookie impact, 2026 could even be a division title level year. That might even be too optimistic

Reality is they have two real choices. Extend Prescott and keep the low level relevance status quo. Or they move on, rebuild, and build a better team from the top down. Thats not going to happen overnight, and fans need to accept that.

 

[KJJ]

I provided some evidence that very good QBs can have terrible regular season wins/losses (even when healthy and playing all the games and even after they have established themselves).

Where did I ever say they couldn’t? You’re just wasting your time providing evidence for something I never refuted.

 

[KJJ]

Carter had next to nothing to do with the 2003 season success. They were 27th in offense in points scored and middle of the pack in yards. Lots of the wins were low scoring affairs.

We beat the Giants 35-32. We beat AZ 24-7. We beat Detroit 38-7. We beat Carolina 24-20. We beat Washington 27-0. We beat Philly 23-21. More than half of our wins weren’t low scoring. Have fun arguing that.

 

[thunderpimp91]

Who is playing QB? You dont have a top flight QB, you dont win. Period.

What are we defining as a top flight QB? Jared Goff, Baker Mayfield, Jordan Love, and Brock Purdy were the NFC QBs to make it further than the Cowboys last year. How many of those guys are top flight? One was a Rams castoff, another struggled to stick with Carolina last year, another a 7th round pick.

I get that moving on from Dak is a roll of the dice, but we act like it's impossible to find alternate solutions at the QB position these days. Teams that have high levels of talent aside from the QB position tend to be able to find alternatives significantly easier.

 

[Chasing6]

We beat the Giants 35-32. We beat AZ 24-7. We beat Detroit 38-7. We beat Carolina 24-20. We beat Washington 27-0. We beat Philly 23-21. More than half of our wins weren’t low scoring. Have fun arguing that.

Majority of those look like defensive wins - 7,7,20,0,21. Only 1 game over 30.

 

[KJJ]

Majority of those look like defensive wins - 7,7,20,0,21. Only 1 game over 30.

Not arguing that the defense didn’t play a big part in those wins but we were generating offense/points which we hadn’t done the previous season. The opposing offenses weren’t getting as many snaps. Our D wasn’t having to stay on the field as much.

 

[darthseinfeld]

What are we defining as a top flight QB? Jared Goff, Baker Mayfield, Jordan Love, and Brock Purdy were the NFC QBs to make it further than the Cowboys last year. How many of those guys are top flight? One was a Rams castoff, another struggled to stick with Carolina last year, another a 7th round pick.

I get that moving on from Dak is a roll of the dice, but we act like it's impossible to find alternate solutions at the QB position these days. Teams that have high levels of talent aside from the QB position tend to be able to find alternatives significantly easier.

I mean sure if you want a playoff win or two to be your high water mark. I dont see the point of blowing it up, getting yet another middling QB, and consistently falling short. If you are going to do it, do it with the intention of building a legitimate title contender. And doing that is going to require patience. Im not interested in a team that goes just a little bit farther than where Dak Prescott can take them

 

[Rockport]

I'm just curious for those who want to blow it up, or at the very least move on from Dak. How long would you be comfortable absolutely sucking after?
This isn't a loaded question either, or a disguised thread to fearmonger what losing dak would look like. I'm just coming around, and wondering how others feel.

I'd hate just being terrible with no hope for 3 years +.

You’re lucky if it’s only 3 years. Finding a franchise QB is easy. Just draft one in the 1st round. How many first round QB’s have teams like Cleveland drafted? Lance was the 3rd pick in the draft. Daniel Jones? Mac Jones? It’s not a sure thing and if you miss then the years start piling up.

 

[Chasing6]

You’re lucky if it’s only 3 years. Finding a franchise QB is easy. Just draft one in the 1st round. How many first round QB’s have teams like Cleveland drafted? Lance was the 3rd pick in the draft. Daniel Jones? Mac Jones? It’s not a sure thing and if you miss then the years start piling up.

If all these top pick QB's coming out college are supposed to be legit, maybe it is the team around them holding them back.

How does Mac Jones play great his rookie year then drops the next 2 years. Maybe because he went from having a legit OC, to having DC become his OC in year 2 and a 3rd OC in year three.

Could that possible have anything to do with his development?

 

[Blitzen]

You have no idea what you’re talking about if you think a QB has nothing to do with their teams success. Are you serious? A very good QB can dictate regular season success and anyone who doesn’t think so knows absolutely nothing about football. Pointing out Hall of Fame QBs that struggled on bad teams their first year or two doesn’t refute anything I stated earlier in this thread. You’re just looking to spend another day arguing. Have fun wasting your time.

I showed Matt Ryan’s poor seasons ( back to back 4-12 and 6-10) sandwiched between an NFCCG and his SB appearance (when he won the MVP award). That first 4-12 season was his sixth year in the league (not exactly rookie or even around rookie season). There are others if you need further evidence.

I never said good QB’s do not have anything to do with their team’s success stats-wise. They do not magically add lots of wins independent of surrounding cast (which it sounds like you do believe). I suppose if I wanted I could put some type of theoretical statistical method together to attempt to value wins above surrounding cast. Only a tiny fraction of even the best QB’s have a substantial impact on regular season and playoff wins. This is the issue-everyone over values QB’s in regular season wins and losses. Brock Purdy has way more in common with Jimmy Garoppolo than he does Pat Mahomes.

 

[thunderpimp91]

I mean sure if you want a playoff win or two to be your high water mark. I dont see the point of blowing it up, getting yet another middling QB, and consistently falling short. If you are going to do it, do it with the intention of building a legitimate title contender. And doing that is going to require patience. Im not interested in a team that goes just a little bit farther than where Dak Prescott can take them

I tend to think the exact opposite. In a rebuild patience is the worst thing you can have sometimes. Not saying you don't have some grace for players as they develop, but you have to have the urgency to rebuild before the influx of talent gets expensive. Too many mega contracts is what has the Cowboys in the position they are in today. The lack of willingness to be aggressive in free agency at times and make that trade deadline deal to patch a hole has been this teams biggest obstacle. Part of the appeal of a rebuild for the Cowboys is freeing up some cap space to recreate that flexibility to be more aggressive

 

[Blitzen]

Not arguing that the defense didn’t play a big part in those wins but we were generating offense/points which we hadn’t done the previous season. The opposing offenses weren’t getting as many snaps. Our D wasn’t having to stay on the field as much.

You are attempting to make Carter’s contribution a bigger deal than it was. He kinda drove the bus-which when you look at the totality of his career is not that big of a deal. The team was much improved more so because of a handful of useful additions, an actual NFL head coach with real authority, team buy in, and outstanding defense.