What Happens if Bledsoe is Injuried?

[blindzebra]

LOL..

You of all people should know that it's all in how you view it. Some plays are bang-bang and you almost have to take a step back and replay all of what you were able to capture in those few snap shots, back in your mind. Then you make a call.

Others can be looked at from a distance and all of a sudden, a picture comes clear. That's how I view Carter and Vinnie. People watched them and took certain things from there play. Like a ref calling a play. All of a sudden, the things that they captured, good or bad, become the lasting images in there minds.

After a while, if you have enough objectivity creeping in, you can start breaking down plays, games and seasons. After awhile, you come to see that the two, statistically, were very simular overall. The deference was clearly defense and luck of the draw.

This is what I see.

This entire Quincy won 10 games and got us to the playoffs argument got shot full of holes last offseason pre-release.

We had good defense and coaching in 2003, both did a much worse job in 2004. The offenses, mainly due to injuries, were almost identical.

That is what the numbers say, and what anyone without a Carter agenda would see.

 

[kartr]

Now it's 8 teams with GOOD DEFENSES, mighty big change from 8 of the top 10?

You don't have to take my word on anything. If you care to know the truth, I base my opinion on the stats from nfl.com. If you sort on total defense, it will clearly show that we played against 8 of the top 10 defenses that year, and that's without RB like a Marchall Faulk,Shaun Alexander,Travis Henry or a Priest Holmes. If you look at Hambrick's stats that year, he had 5 td runs in the 1st 8 games and 0 in the last 8, whereas Carter had 3 200+ games and 2 190+ games in the the first 8 and 5 200+ games in the last 8, including 200+ against the Pats,Dolphins,Panthers,Giants and Saints. Hambrick averaged around 30 yards per game in the last 8 games. That's means our offense didn't have enough of a running threat to counter-balance our passing attack and that's clearly Parcells' fault for not getting a better RB to complement Carter. Had he done so, Carter would have been better and we'd had a fighting chance against the Eagles,Pats and Dolphins late in the season. All of those teams outrushed us which put less pressure on their qb's.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

11Bledsoe, DrewQB


First, you have to look at what's left should Bledsoe get injured ...

7Henson, DrewQB

9Romo, TonyQB


Unrestricted Free Agent

16Testaverde, VinnyQB




I'm not trying to answer this one ...but, all I can say is you'd better Hope that Bledsoe satys healthy throughout the season!

This can be said for about 98% of all teams in the NFL. Even Philly, the probable odds on favorite in the NFC, doesn't have what I would call a great backup sito. I think you guys have McMahon, Detmer and Blake. It that correct? I think think for a game or three, you might be fine but if McNappie is out for any length of time, you guys are hurting IMO. That's just the unfortunate reality of football in the NFL right now.

IMO, I would actually like to see a situation where Henson or Romo were forced to play. I don't see Bledsoe as the long term answer. I would very much like to get the question of "What do we have in Henson and Romo" answered. I would not be all that disapointed to see one or both get real playing time. Especially now. I'd much rather know now if we need to draft a QB or sign a guy, while we have lots of youth on the team going through the learning curve as opposed to two season from now when all these guys should be coming into there own and Bledsoe should be ready for the retirement road. To wait till that time comes, IMO, would be a huge mistake. Better to know now IMO.

 

[kartr]

I'm glad the guy is history and no longer our problem and in the meantime I'm not seeing any teams going after him strongly so while some may think very high of Carter other teams around the league do not share that view point or Carter would have already been signed.

That's a very good point about other teams not going after him, but think about this;several teams such as Detroit,Chicago,Arizona,Cleveland,Miami struggle with poor qb play last year, whereas the Jets had an excellent starter in Pennington, so who was smarter, the Jets or those other teams, since the Jets made the playoffs. Carter's 2 wins helped that Jets lock up a wild card berth,plus Carter was better than the qb's of those teams who didn't sign him and struggled with poor qb play. Those teams look like fools cause either their head coaches got fired or are in trouble now. Those teams learned that their starting qb's stunk and didn't develop. Clearly Carter's 2004 qb rating would have helped any of those teams to play better at the qb position. That's why I laughed the jokers who got fired and the ones who are in trouble now. Hey, Carter engineered victories over two of those teams,Cleveland and Arizona, despite that fact they harassed him with good pass rushes. Meanwhile, Herm Edwards and Terry Bradway come off looking good for giving Carter another chance and making the playoffs, whereas otherwise they would not have. And the team that released Carter, well, their season went straight into the toilet.

 

[Doomsday101]

That's a very good point about other teams not going after him, but think about this;several teams such as Detroit,Chicago,Arizona,Cleveland,Miami struggle with poor qb play last year, whereas the Jets had an excellent starter in Pennington, so who was smarter, the Jets or those other teams, since the Jets made the playoffs. Carter's 2 wins helped that Jets lock up a wild card berth,plus Carter was better than the qb's of those teams who didn't sign him and struggled with poor qb play. Those teams look like fools cause either their head coaches got fired or are in trouble now. Those teams learned that their starting qb's stunk and didn't develop. Clearly Carter's 2004 qb rating would have helped any of those teams to play better at the qb position. That's why I laughed the jokers who got fired and the ones who are in trouble now. Hey, Carter engineered victories over two of those teams,Cleveland and Arizona, despite that fact they harassed him with good pass rushes. Meanwhile, Herm Edwards and Terry Bradway come off looking good for giving Carter another chance and making the playoffs, whereas otherwise they would not have. And the team that released Carter, well, their season went straight into the toilet.

In those 3 games Martin rushed for 119, 88 and 99 yards and Jets defense gave up 7 points in 1 victory and 3 points in the other winning games 10 to 7 and 13 to 3. Please don't go there Carter did not lead anything, while you may think the guy is hot stuff most think he lacks quite a bit and now with his off the field problems it makes him even less desireable than ever.

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

This can be said for about 98% of all teams in the NFL.

Sure I hear your point! But were not talking about all the teams in the NFL, we're talking about Bleedsoe and the Cowbozoys. Having said that, don't believe that Drew can take the Cowbozoys to the promise land -- perhaps even Beeldsoe himself can't.

 

[Banned_n_austin]

Bledsoe has had 1 season in his 12 year career cut materially short by injury. He's very durable.

Tony Romo will be our starter if Drew goes down.

I agree, unless Parcells decides to go with Vinny ...

... or even Quincy.

 

[kartr]

This is also untrue. Vinnie, in fact, has helped the Jets make the playoffs. He has shown that he can do this. Same with Bledsoe. It may not be for the Cowboys, per say, but given the circumstances, I don't see how you can look at Carter or Vinnie and say one lead the team to victory and the other to defeate. The reality of the situation is that both QBs, posted almost identical passing stats 03 and 04.

57.8% Comp., 6.5 YPC, 17TDs/21INTs, 3302 yards.

60.0% Comp., 7.1 YPC, 17TDs/20INTs, 3532 yards.

Which stats belong to which QB?

Total Offense numbers look like this.

5197

5161

Total Sacks for/against.

32/37

33/36

Which is which?

Total Rushing yards and average per carry look like this.

1999 for 3.9

1769 for 3.9

Which is which?

In fact, the only real discernable difference between 2004 and 2003 is this.

Total offensive yards against.

5285 2004

4056 2003

Total Rushing yards against.

1764 2004

1425 2003

Total Passing yards against.

3521 2004

2631 2003

Total TDs Against.

49 2004

28 2003

Total FGs Against.

21/23 2004

21/23 2003

You can hang a lot of things on Vinnie or give credit to Carter for certain things but the facts are that the two QBs, in there last season here in Dallas were almost identical from a statistical point of view. To give credit to one for winning and the other for lossing is rediculous. Even the offensive support is almost the same. The only real difference was the defense and that is clearly illustrated in the numbers from one year to the next. Give credit where due. The defensive performance of the 2003 club was better then the 2004 club. We were very lucky in 2003 in that we faced many teams at the right time. The QBs had little to do with the eventual outcomes of the seasons.

That's the real truth.

Excellent post, but in your post, you contradict yourself and add weight to my point. You state that their numbers were almost identical, and you're right. But, Carter was just in his 3rd year and his first full year as a starter,meaning that Carter had advanced to the level of a fading starter, but he did it against much better defenses, whereas Vinny was playing against weaker defenses with a better supporting cast in JUJO and Keyshawn and now 2nd year Te, Jason Witten. Vinny last playoff year was in '97, that's half a decade ago;Vinny's career winning percentage is .423 or 42%, that's 6-10;Carter's winning percentage is .523, a little better than 8-8, with only 34 starts under his belt,Bledsoe winning percentage is .503, that's 8-8 even after 12 years in the NFL, and his last playoff year was in 97-98,again half a decade ago.
Carter's winning percentage last year was 66% for the Jets. He continues to improve his winning percentage,his qb rating and completion percentage. Those things are what make him a better option in Dallas,Oakland,Chicago,Miami,Arizona,Cleveland,Baltimore,Detroit,Buffalo,Washington.
His numbers as well as his age and athleticism are what makes him a better option. The teams I named above would be more competitive with his as their starter whether they see it or not and they will also learn the folly of their ways again as they did last year, by not making the playoffs. I just hope Dallas wakes up before the others do.

 

[bbgun]

If we get really desperate ...

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

That's a very good point about other teams not going after him, but think about this;several teams such as Detroit,Chicago,Arizona,Cleveland,Miami struggle with poor qb play last year, whereas the Jets had an excellent starter in Pennington, so who was smarter, the Jets or those other teams, since the Jets made the playoffs. Carter's 2 wins helped that Jets lock up a wild card berth,plus Carter was better than the qb's of those teams who didn't sign him and struggled with poor qb play. Those teams look like fools cause either their head coaches got fired or are in trouble now. Those teams learned that their starting qb's stunk and didn't develop. Clearly Carter's 2004 qb rating would have helped any of those teams to play better at the qb position. That's why I laughed the jokers who got fired and the ones who are in trouble now. Hey, Carter engineered victories over two of those teams,Cleveland and Arizona, despite that fact they harassed him with good pass rushes. Meanwhile, Herm Edwards and Terry Bradway come off looking good for giving Carter another chance and making the playoffs, whereas otherwise they would not have. And the team that released Carter, well, their season went straight into the toilet.

Your playing what if games here. If Carter had signed with one of the other clubs mentioned in your post, he would not have faced two of the three worst teams in the league. Theoretically, had he signed with Detroit, in weeks 10, 11 and 12, he would have faced Jacksonville, Minnesota and Indy. He lost to the only winning team he faced in NY (Baltimore at 9-7) with a very good Jets team around him. The Vikes and Indy were both playoff teams. The Jags were also 9-7 and on a run twords the end of the season. It's very reasonable to think that Carter would have lost all three had he signed in Detroit.

Had he signed with Chicago, he would have played Tenn., Indy and us. The Bears were not near the team the Jets were so that Tenn. game is a guess. Indy would have still been a loss and the game against us would have been on Thanksgiving. I would have liked to have seen that game very much. I don't know if he'd have won or lost but I'd have liked to have seen it.

Arizona would have been the Giants, Carolina and the Jets. I think you lose to the Giants, you lose to Carolina and you probably lose to the Jets. What if?

If your in Cleveland during that same time span, you playing the Steelers, the Jets and Cincy. Again, you probably go 0-3.

If your in Miami, you got a bye, Seattle (which you probably lose) and SF. Who knows how that turns out. Maybe Miami gets the number one pick in the draft based on that game.

Either way you slice it, there's no telling what really would have happened. Bottom line, Carter didn't put up very good numbers in the three games he played. He did play for a pretty good team in NY and he beat Az and Cleveland, both selected top 5 in this years draft. He lost to a very young and inexperienced QB against Baltimore. It's commendable that Carter was able to come in and win the games he clearly should have been able to win but it's nothing more then that IMO. It's regreatable that he could not stay out of trouble long enough to help the Jets when they most needed it. That's the bottom line, IMO.

 

[kartr]

We also faced more then just a few of those teams without there starting QBs. Lots of backup QBs or very young QBs. If you break down those games in the first half of 2003, you'll see that we caught lots of teams at the right time. That didn't happen in 2004.

So what you're saying is that
1) Joey Harrington, 1st round draft pick was not a starter
2) Kerry Collins,1st round draft pick was not a starter
3) Jake Delhomme was not a starter
4) Donavan McNabb,1st round draft pick was not a starter
5) Drew Bledsoe,1st round draft pick was not a starter
6) Brad Johnson was not a starter

Only the Jets and Falcons and the Giants in the second game didn't have their starting qb's.

Carter record against Kerry Collins is 2-1 and in 4 games against the Giants has thrown for over 1000 yards against them and more touchdowns and ints going back to 2001. Did Carter catch a break with Troy Hambrick as the starting back, or with rookie A. Bryant starting instead of Rocket Ismael in 2002 or with Joey Galloway hurt against the Pats in 2003. Carter has winning record over Steve McNair,Kurt Warner,Jeff Garcia,Kerry Collins Patrick Ramsey,Joey Harrington, both 1st rounders plus Vinny and Drew Bledsoe, yet so many here act like he was worst qb in Cowboy history. This team clearly is not as good without him because he is a dual threat, able to run and throw. He just the kind of qb that Buffalo,Baltimore are trying to develop now. He's a new millenia qb, cut from the same cloth as McNabb,Vick,Culpepper who are all evolutions of Steve Young,John Elway,Randall Cunningham. He just needs a little more time to develop. Thirty four starts is bearly 2 years worth of starts.

 

[Alexander]

11Bledsoe, DrewQB


First, you have to look at what's left should Bledsoe get injured ...

7Henson, DrewQB

9Romo, TonyQB


Unrestricted Free Agent

16Testaverde, VinnyQB




I'm not trying to answer this one ...but, all I can say is you'd better Hope that Bledsoe satys healthy throughout the season!

Another reason not to like you.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Excellent post, but in your post, you contradict yourself and add weight to my point. You state that their numbers were almost identical, and you're right. But, Carter was just in his 3rd year and his first full year as a starter,meaning that Carter had advanced to the level of a fading starter, but he did it against much better defenses, whereas Vinny was playing against weaker defenses with a better supporting cast in JUJO and Keyshawn and now 2nd year Te, Jason Witten. Vinny last playoff year was in '97, that's half a decade ago;Vinny's career winning percentage is .423 or 42%, that's 6-10;Carter's winning percentage is .523, a little better than 8-8, with only 34 starts under his belt,Bledsoe winning percentage is .503, that's 8-8 even after 12 years in the NFL, and his last playoff year was in 97-98,again half a decade ago.
Carter's winning percentage last year was 66% for the Jets. He continues to improve his winning percentage,his qb rating and completion percentage. Those things are what make him a better option in Dallas,Oakland,Chicago,Miami,Arizona,Cleveland,Baltimore,Detroit,Buffalo,Washington.
His numbers as well as his age and athleticism are what makes him a better option. The teams I named above would be more competitive with his as their starter whether they see it or not and they will also learn the folly of their ways again as they did last year, by not making the playoffs. I just hope Dallas wakes up before the others do.

I don't believe I support your position in this post. You make the points that the defenses we faced were tougher but I would ask that you go back and actually see where those defenses were ranked at the time we played them. I suspect you will find some interesting info there. I would also ask you to see who we faced at QB. You will see that we didn't face a lot of healthy starters as we did in 2004.

The supporting cast in not a good argument IMO. JJ was hurt much of last season so I don't think you can say he was a major difference. Witten was better but Campbell was out all of last year. That is a major impact to the offense. The WR core was more talented in 2003 then in 2004 IMO so I don't see the logic there. Carter may have only been in his 3rd season but he was in a very easy offense. Our offense, in Dallas, is extremely basic. We did not ask very much of the QB. He had youth and the advantages that go along with that as well as familiarity with the personel. Vinnie, on the other hand, was in his 18th season. He was never supposed to be the starter and he had never played in Payton's offense or with most of the players in Dallas. There is no advantage or disadvantage to either player here. As for the Jets thing, I've addressed that in a previous post.

The whole career stat thing doesn't hold water in this comparison. If you want to compare, compare them over the last three years of there careers. The game has changed a lot in 18 years. Carter has never played for a team as bad as Tampa Bay was when Vinnie got drafted. It's unfair to associate that. Different time and place all together. Lastly, you fail to recongnize the obviouse. Points scored and offensive performance were almost exact. The big difference was the defensive play. It's not Carter or Vinnie.

 

[kartr]

In those 3 games Martin rushed for 119, 88 and 99 yards and Jets defense gave up 7 points in 1 victory and 3 points in the other winning games 10 to 7 and 13 to 3. Please don't go there Carter did not lead anything, while you may think the guy is hot stuff most think he lacks quite a bit and now with his off the field problems it makes him even less desireable than ever.

ONce again, a partial truth, you act as is Martin did nothing in the games that Pennington played in. Martin was on a tear the whole season as far as rushing yards, but he didn't throw a single touchdown pass and Carter did. Carter wasn't asked to put up big numbers in those games,just manage them. Carter threw for 262 yards against the Falcons, over 600 yards in 2 games against the Giants, 264 yards against the Panthers,210 yards against the Pats on the road,288 yards against the Dolphins and 290 yards against the Saints on the road, all without benefit of a running game. So you should know better than to go there.

 

[Alexander]

Carter threw for 262 yards against the Falcons, over 600 yards in 2 games against the Giants, 264 yards against the Panthers,210 yards against the Pats on the road,288 yards against the Dolphins and 290 yards against the Saints on the road, all without benefit of a running game. So you should know better than to go there.

His record in those games?

3 wins. 4 losses.

As for the "no running game", Hambrick was bad, but nothing compared to what Testeverde had in terms of support over the first half of the season.

Testeverde's record with Jones?

3 wins. 4 losses.

Excuses run both ways.

 

[WoodysGirl]

How did a Bledsoe turn to a Carter thread??? Last I heard Bledsoe is the Cowboys QB until further notice and Carter is waiting on a TC injury.

 

[Alexander]

How did a Bledsoe turn to a Carter thread??? Last I heard Bledsoe is the Cowboys QB until further notice and Carter is waiting on a TC injury.

Agendas.

Just like how other threads turn into 3-4 or Ty Law fests.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Sure I hear your point! But were not talking about all the teams in the NFL, we're talking about Bleedsoe and the Cowbozoys. Having said that, don't believe that Drew can take the Cowbozoys to the promise land -- perhaps even Beeldsoe himself can't.

In that case, good point on the injury thing. I've already made the point, and why, I don't share your view where an injury is concerned but beside the point.

Now I am talking about the Eagles. You had better hope you don't sustain an injury at the QB spot.

McMahon
Detmer
Blake

We are a young team and not really in a position to challange for a championship. That is what we play for in Dallas regardless.

You are in that position and have a window of opportunity. Your advice/point is one that you should head. McNappie gone and so is your opportunity to win a championship.

 

[kartr]

Your playing what if games here. If Carter had signed with one of the other clubs mentioned in your post, he would not have faced two of the three worst teams in the league. Theoretically, had he signed with Detroit, in weeks 10, 11 and 12, he would have faced Jacksonville, Minnesota and Indy. He lost to the only winning team he faced in NY (Baltimore at 9-7) with a very good Jets team around him. The Vikes and Indy were both playoff teams. The Jags were also 9-7 and on a run twords the end of the season. It's very reasonable to think that Carter would have lost all three had he signed in Detroit.

Had he signed with Chicago, he would have played Tenn., Indy and us. The Bears were not near the team the Jets were so that Tenn. game is a guess. Indy would have still been a loss and the game against us would have been on Thanksgiving. I would have liked to have seen that game very much. I don't know if he'd have won or lost but I'd have liked to have seen it.

Arizona would have been the Giants, Carolina and the Jets. I think you lose to the Giants, you lose to Carolina and you probably lose to the Jets. What if?

If your in Cleveland during that same time span, you playing the Steelers, the Jets and Cincy. Again, you probably go 0-3.

If your in Miami, you got a bye, Seattle (which you probably lose) and SF. Who knows how that turns out. Maybe Miami gets the number one pick in the draft based on that game.

Either way you slice it, there's no telling what really would have happened. Bottom line, Carter didn't put up very good numbers in the three games he played. He did play for a pretty good team in NY and he beat Az and Cleveland, both selected top 5 in this years draft. He lost to a very young and inexperienced QB against Baltimore. It's commendable that Carter was able to come in and win the games he clearly should have been able to win but it's nothing more then that IMO. It's regreatable that he could not stay out of trouble long enough to help the Jets when they most needed it. That's the bottom line, IMO.

What if games? Jeff Garcia had horrible game against us last year. Against our bad defense, Quincy with good running game and Vinny's 3 ints, Cleveland clearly would have beat us. Quincy had great numbers against the Ravens, the Jets coaches and pass defense lost the Ravens game. Kyle Boller looked like the second coming Joe Montana in the second half of that game. Do you really think that Quincy wouldn't have outplayed Henson in the Bears game. The teams I mentioned had absoutely horrible qb play. Quincy was needed the most for the Jets when Pennington was hurt. In the playoffs, Quincy wasn't needed because Pennington was healthy enough to play. He was great in San Diego playoff game, he didn't look hurt at all to me, but he played lousy in the Pittsburgh playoff game, so they said his shoulder was hurting again. Quincy is not under league suspension, which means he's not in trouble with the NFL. He can play from day one with any team that signs him.

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

McMahon
Detmer

Cannot agree. Koy Detmer is a quality QB. Offensive lines have a lot to say about who gets to injury QBs! Otherwise I agree, they all need to stay healthy.