what i saw with pat watkins

[BlueStar22]

If Watkins is a player, he'll step up and keep Killa Davis on the bench.

 

[AdamJT13]

Don't know, but my question since it happenend is WHY did he turn and start backpedaling?! What on earth entered his mind to make him do that?!

He was a few yards behind the WR and the ball and he was trying to catch up to them while the ball was in the air. He lost all of his speed and momentum when he suddenly turned and started backpedaling and looking for the ball and the ball ended up coming down 4-5 yards behind him.

He spun around because he saw the ball going deeper than where he was, and he doesn't have eyes in the back of his head. The problem was that he took an angle to arrive at the receiver near the goal line, but the ball was thrown about 6 yards deep in the end zone. By the time Roy realized the ball was thrown deeper, all he could do was spin around. If he had just started running deeper, the best he could have done is have it hit him in the back of the head. If McNabb had thrown the ball on more of a line to hit Brown near the goal line, Roy would have been in perfect position to make the play.

 

[MapleLeaf]

He spun around because he saw the ball going deeper than where he was, and he doesn't have eyes in the back of his head. The problem was that he took an angle to arrive at the receiver near the goal line, but the ball was thrown about 6 yards deep in the end zone. By the time Roy realized the ball was thrown deeper, all he could do was spin around. If he had just started running deeper, the best he could have done is have it hit him in the back of the head. If McNabb had thrown the ball on more of a line to hit Brown near the goal line, Roy would have been in perfect position to make the play.

...says the player with the shallowest angle on the throw from the wide side of the field has the best look and opportunity to intercept or bat the ball down.

He gets to watch the whole play in front of him. Roy had the best chance to make something out of that play other than the eventual TD. There's no getting around that.

As for getting hit in the back of the head??? Why in the heck would that happen if you take the proper angle to the ball.

Let's break the play down properly. Roy is playing middle safety and breaks to his right to cover Baskett who has gotten behind Watkins.

Baskett's route had taken him and Watkins right over the right side of the field's yardage numbers. Watkins route is a direct trail on Baskett. The only person who could see the ball through the entire flight and guage it's intersection with the receiver was Roy and he blew it.

It's basic school yard ball. Misjudge the angle to the receiver and ball and you get a player who takes himself out of the play.

As for the one of the reasons why Baskett got off behind Watkins, I think we should all look at what happened off the line of scrimmage. Mr. 94 was lined up over Baskett and conveniently forget ot chip him when he most definetly made a "half baked" attempt at an arm swipe in Baskett's direction while his right foot was coming down on the Eagle 40 yard line numbers.

If Ware redirects the receiver maybe that route isn't there for McNabb. We've talked aobut this before on the forum. I think it was the Denver or KC game last year? But WAre who was dropping into zone coverage on that play had to redirect the receiver. He didn't and it allowed Baskett to shoot out of the gate untouched.

Watch Aikman's replay after the ref signlas that the Dallas holding penalty is declined. You'll see Ware in full technicolour "noodlearming" towards Baskett.

 

[Clove]

I thought the game was too big for Watkins. The spotlight was on, and he froze when patterns came his way. Think about it, the kid's never been tested until Donovan had common sense enough to test a rookie.

He needed this game, and so did the Cowboys. We need to get this messing up crap out of our system, so we can get on with it.

RW was in perfect position, and I don't know if it were the lights or not, but he stopped exactly where he thought the ball would land, and when he saw he was wrong, it was too late.

 

[AdamJT13]

As for getting hit in the back of the head??? Why in the heck would that happen if you take the proper angle to the ball.

When he was near the goal line and realized that the ball was going deeper, if he had run to that spot, he wouldn't have been able to make a play on the ball because he would have been facing the back of the end zone. The ball would have been coming from behind him.

Here's a crude drawing of the approximate angles involved in the play --

The blue arrow represents the angle Roy took. The red arrow represents the angle Roy would have had to have taken to make a play on the ball. The intersection of the dotted line (the ball's approximate path) and the blue arrow is about where Roy spun around (or probably closer to the end zone, actually). If had changed his angle to where the ball was going, he would have been running pretty much directly away from the quarterback and the ball would have been coming from directly behind him. Hence, getting hit in the back of the head would have been his best play on the ball.

Also, if Roy had taken the angle represented by the red arrow, he wouldn't have been there in time to make a play if McNabb's pass had arrived sooner (at the 5-yard line or goal line), and people would be complaining that he took the wrong angle.

Let's break the play down properly. Roy is playing middle safety and breaks to his right to cover Baskett who has gotten behind Watkins.

Roy broke on the play well before Brown (not Baskett) got behind Watkins. Brown was no closer to the end zone than the 32 when Roy started running his way. (That's the first instant we can see Roy's feet on the replay.) When Brown was at the 32, Watkins was at the 28 but wasn't at full speed, and Roy was at the 30 on the left NFL hash marks. Brown passed Watkins at the 22, when Roy was at the 21 and still between the left college hash marks and the left NFL hash marks.

Baskett's route had taken him and Watkins right over the right side of the field's yardage numbers. Watkins route is a direct trail on Baskett. The only person who could see the ball through the entire flight and guage it's intersection with the receiver was Roy and he blew it.

You say that as if it's an easy thing to do. Roy isn't coming from the middle of the field to the side of the field, he's running downfield at a slight angle away from the quarterback. He doesn't know whether the receiver is running a post, a fly or a corner route, and the receiver isn't running near the sideline (which makes things easier for the safety to judge). And even once the ball is thrown, it's extremely difficult to judge the flight when you're running away from the quarterback. How many times is a receiver able to adjust to a ball thrown several yards over the wrong shoulder? How many times is a guy on punt coverage able to locate the ball in the air while also keeping an eye on the returner and the goal line? In fact, how many times have you ever seen a safety intercept a pass similar to that one?

As for the one of the reasons why Baskett got off behind Watkins, I think we should all look at what happened off the line of scrimmage. Mr. 94 was lined up over Baskett and conveniently forget ot chip him when he most definetly made a "half baked" attempt at an arm swipe in Baskett's direction while his right foot was coming down on the Eagle 40 yard line numbers.

If Ware redirects the receiver maybe that route isn't there for McNabb. We've talked aobut this before on the forum. I think it was the Denver or KC game last year? But WAre who was dropping into zone coverage on that play had to redirect the receiver. He didn't and it allowed Baskett to shoot out of the gate untouched.

Watch Aikman's replay after the ref signlas that the Dallas holding penalty is declined. You'll see Ware in full technicolour "noodlearming" towards Baskett.

You're forgetting that it was a flea-flicker. Ware didn't reroute Brown because Westbrook had the ball and was heading his way. I certainly hope that Ware wouldn't be wasting time essentially blocking a wide receiver when the opponent is running a sweep at him with a lineman pulling right toward him.

 

[CrazyCowboy]

We need to put pressure on the QB's more with our DT's up the middle

 

[ddh33]

Adam strikes again. Hard to argue with logic and fact.

 

[MapleLeaf]

When he was near the goal line and realized that the ball was going deeper, if he had run to that spot, he wouldn't have been able to make a play on the ball because he would have been facing the back of the end zone. The ball would have been coming from behind him.

So for Brown it easier to be facing the back of the endzone looking over his shoulder for the pass, but more difficult for Roy?

Here's a crude drawing of the approximate angles involved in the play --

Would not have been a problem if he wouldn't have looked back at the ten and misjudged the angle. Fundamental football is to play the player, not the ball.

The blue arrow represents the angle Roy took. The red arrow represents the angle Roy would have had to have taken to make a play on the ball. The intersection of the dotted line (the ball's approximate path) and the blue arrow is about where Roy spun around (or probably closer to the end zone, actually). If had changed his angle to where the ball was going, he would have been running pretty much directly away from the quarterback and the ball would have been coming from directly behind him. Hence, getting hit in the back of the head would have been his best play on the ball.

I politely contest that version of events. His crossover to path Brown was running was about ten yards from one has to the other. He began his turn around at about the five and was completely spun and out of the play by the three. Brown caught the ball at the middle bar of the letter "E" on the Eagles logo.

Roy misjudged the depth by almost ten yards and turn to look at the ball on the ten yard line. He misjudged the play!

Also, if Roy had taken the angle represented by the red arrow, he wouldn't have been there in time to make a play if McNabb's pass had arrived sooner (at the 5-yard line or goal line), and people would be complaining that he took the wrong angle.

What!? If it wasn't embarassing enough that he played the ball instead of the receiver he got completely turned around on a open play in front of him. You want to make excuses for him possibly missing a short pass. It doesn't matter where the ball is, you are suppose to be in postion with your abilities to make the play.

Roy broke on the play well before Brown (not Baskett) got behind Watkins. Brown was no closer to the end zone than the 32 when Roy started running his way. (That's the first instant we can see Roy's feet on the replay.) When Brown was at the 32, Watkins was at the 28 but wasn't at full speed, and Roy was at the 30 on the left NFL hash marks. Brown passed Watkins at the 22, when Roy was at the 21 and still between the left college hash marks and the left NFL hash marks.



You say that as if it's an easy thing to do. Roy isn't coming from the middle of the field to the side of the field, he's running downfield at a slight angle away from the quarterback. He doesn't know whether the receiver is running a post, a fly or a corner route, and the receiver isn't running near the sideline (which makes things easier for the safety to judge). And even once the ball is thrown, it's extremely difficult to judge the flight when you're running away from the quarterback. How many times is a receiver able to adjust to a ball thrown several yards over the wrong shoulder? How many times is a guy on punt coverage able to locate the ball in the air while also keeping an eye on the returner and the goal line? In fact, how many times have you ever seen a safety intercept a pass similar to that one?

Your account of the position of the players is accurate, but I still don't know how you can give justification for Roy's play when he shouldn't have locked on the ball at the ten yard line. If your assumption is true and Roy was unsure of what the receiver is going to do, then why break your path from the receiver and play the ball at the ten? Why not just focus on the player and make the play when the ball comes down in contact with the receiver? He's is the strong safety after all? There's no getting around being turned out of the play by your misjudgement.

As for the angle of his play I still believe that he would have carried an angle into Brown and not been directly behind the reciever. That was the position Watkins was in because he was pursuing directly behind. Even the slightest angle gives you an opportunity to gauge the ball flight and be there for a play- whether it was the interception or a break up of the pass.

You're forgetting that it was a flea-flicker. Ware didn't reroute Brown because Westbrook had the ball and was heading his way. I certainly hope that Ware wouldn't be wasting time essentially blocking a wide receiver when the opponent is running a sweep at him with a lineman pulling right toward him.

This is true and he played the receiver correctly by letting him pass. My error.

 

[MapleLeaf]

We need to put pressure on the QB's more with our DT's up the middle

...that would be useless.

 

[MapleLeaf]

Adam strikes again. Hard to argue with logic and fact.

...asks your players to play the player and not the ball when the ball is in flight. All coaches teach that to young players.