CFZ What if the core of this team just isn't that great?

[75boyz]

I don't know, strikes me as odd that you'd have so many players that simply just fold in the playoffs.

I think the issue is when it comes to the playoffs we have a QB that just doesn't shine when the lights are the brightest and he's also tied to a a HC (and coaching staff) that's just not good enough.

Granted, I think in some specific cases, there has been roster holes that cost us. I do believe suspect run D (lack of good DT play for example) has cost us as well.

I think our issues are simply:

- The QB just isn't prime time
- Jerry has coaches that just aren't good enough
- The roster typically has a fatal flaw that Jerry ignored despite it being quite obvious

Totally agree.
For me it begins and ends with HC and QB selection imo. Everything else is trickle down effect.
So I strongly support your opinion here.

 

[MyFairLady]

Literally the toronto maple leafs situation with 4 players on their team taking half the cap and underperforming in the playoffs and preventing better players to fill their roster.
Known as playoff chokers despite being regular season heros, cupcake coach and terrible management.

Believe it or not I am a Leafs fan and I make this comparison all the time. The "stars" on the Leafs could not be happier. They are celebrated as heroes all season long and paid at the top of the league. Come playoff they get pushed around like babies and are gone in a flash. The similarities in philosophy are insane.

 

[KMY_Amber]

Well there you go. I would go as far as to say no new contracts adjusted as a ringing punishment for what happened as far as players go. Now I wiuod not advocate for removing a coach but MM might be in trouble.

Bye McCarthy!!!! If that's how you get a team ready to play for the playoffs, then you'll never get the Cowboys over the top to the Superbowl.

And he's regularly outcoached, and has questionable game management. So he's simply not worth keeping.

Yes, three straight 12-win seasons, but the NFC East is weak, so beating up on the Giants and Commanders (and Eagles, for that matter), it's not enough. In the Big Games, Mike and the Cowboys crumble, and sometimes get blown out.

 

[nightrain]

One of the hard parts of losing in the manner the Cowboys did Sunday is the very real possibility that what was considered the strong core of this team is probably incapable (as currently constituted) to compete seriously for a championship. And the evidence is clear- they can’t win big playoff games against the best teams in the league. That’s not an opinion. That’s based on this team’s playoff record WITH this core.

What is the core of this team? It‘s the guys this FO believes are the best players we have. The guys we would never trade or cut because of their value to the team. Here is that core:

• Dak Prescott (8 yr vet- 2-5 playoff record)
• Micah Parsons (3 yr vet- 1-2 in the playoffs)
• Cedee Lamb (4 yr vet- 1-2 in the playoffs)
• Zack Martin (11 yr vet- 3-6 in the playoffs)
• Tyron Smith (14 yr vet- 3-6 in the playoffs)
• DeMarcus Law (11 yr vet- 3-6 in the playoffs)
• Tyler Smith (2 yr vet- 1-2 in the playoffs)
• Trevon Diggs (5 yr vet)

So having all these talented players on this roster, some of which are very highly paid or are about to get bigger paydays, has amounted to 3 total playoff wins over the last 14 seasons? That’s it? These “must have” guys are so valuable as a core, we have won 3 wild card playoff games with them? With two different HCs and multiple different coordinators in some cases.

Many fans here won’t like this…but there’s a very good chance that the core of this roster- the centerpiece of talent for this team - is vastly overrated. OR…we have a front office that is incapable of finding a coaching staff that can motivate and shape this core into playoff winners. It actually could be both.

This organization will NOT look in the mirror and ask the tough question: What if the core of our team isn’t that great?

A good portion of the core are old and declining players. That is Jerry's MO, draft them and keep them too long, not parting ways until their dead cap hit is a hefty 8 figures.

 

[kskboys]

It’s not. Most playoff teams are better

This.

If you think about it, we struggled mightily in the regular season against good teams. BUFF, DET, ARI, SF, SEA, teams that are constructed to win in the playoffs, to be specific. No, not all of them made it, but it's that type of construction that kills us. And that's the type of teams you see in the playoffs.

 

[Cowboy_svt]

Believe it or not I am a Leafs fan and I make this comparison all the time. The "stars" on the Leafs could not be happier. They are celebrated as heroes all season long and paid at the top of the league. Come playoff they get pushed around like babies and are gone in a flash. The similarities in philosophy are insane.

Ill give them one thing though, at least MLSE will change GMs.
My brother and i are both Panther fans and we had to endure decades of **** teams and horrendous GMs, we finally get a great GM and boom, off to the Stanley cup and this year picking and pulling unknown but good guys to fill weaknesses from last year.

Pretty insane the Panthers have gone to 2 Cup finals in the time Dallas hasnt even sniffed a conference championship game, and keep in mind Panthers were doin so bad for so long they were considering moving the team out of there.

 

[Creeper]

I don't think it is a what if anymore. I think it is a fact. The Cowboys have some good players. But they have some weaknesses too. The offensive line has not be great all year. The run blocking has been awful. To me, the core of the team is the lines on both sides so yeah, not that great anymore. The same is true on defense, they have Micah, and Bland, and Diggs when healthy, but the other players are inconsistent. The DL is just not strong enough.

I do think losing LVE and Diggs hurt this defense a lot, especially against better teams. LVE is not great but he is better than Clark and whoever else we put on the field. His experience alone makes them a better unit.

The biggest problem in Dallas is we do not have the complimentary plays to play alongside our stars. If CeeDee is out Michael Irvin, who is our Alvin Harper? Cooks is small and more of a specialty WR. Gallup disappears to much and in my opinion too limited in his routes.

On defense we have Micah but no one else on that DL demands much attention. Micah gets double and triple teamed because no one fears another guy causing problems for them.

The Cowboys depend too much on their stars to make plays instead of using the entire roster to compliment the stars they have.

 

[Ranching]

You answer that w/ a childish personal insult? Man, you must really believe we suck at evaluating. Very sad.

I didn't say you sucked, but to pretend that we know more than a pro staff is ridiculous. They watch film for hours a day, they see them up close and personal in practice etc. That's all....the childish ones are those that really believe that they have all the answers from watching a game on TV. Me included

 

[Chocolate Lab]

They aren't that great.

The QB is good, but far from elite and wilts vs better competition and in big moments.

WR, great #1 but very spare after that.

TE, good young #1 but not a Kelce/Kittle/Andrews type.

RB, below average. Not good at all.

OL, very overrated as age takes over Tyron and Zack.

They aren't bad, of course, but they also aren't this uber-talented team they're made out to be.

 

[SlammedZero]

The clause basically says he has to approve a trade. It doesn’t mean they couldn’t trade him. If I was in Dak’s shoes I would approve a trade to the right team.

Ah, OK! I just ask a question about this in the 'Dak Suck' thread. Thanks for this info, wasn't aware of that language in the contract.

 

[Reality]

I understand that. But All Pro or Pro Bowl honors are based on the regular season not the playoffs. Isn’t it possible all those guys just don’t play as well when the competition stiffens? Also there are many players who play their best in the biggest games. That’s where so many of our players seem to shrink.

Beyond qualifying for the playoffs, the only thing that matters are how players perform in the playoffs.

NFL history is littered with great All-Pro/Pro-Bowl players who never won a Super Bowl and a lot of "just good" players who have multiple Super Bowl wins.

Eli Manning threw a lot of interceptions, but played great in two playoff runs including beating the seemingly invincible and heavily favored Patriots twice.

Trent Dilfer played well enough to win a Super Bowl with the Ravens. The defense may have been the reason, but he played the part his team needed and they won.

Nick Foles has always been an average quarterback but when he got the chance to play in the playoffs, he played well enough to help the Eagles win their first Super Bowl.

Tiki Barber was one of the NFL's top running backs but shocked the Giants by retiring abruptly and the team responded by immediately winning a Super Bowl despite losing their star player.

I played a lot of sports in my life and one constant in all of them has been that the best players do not always win championships .. the good players who play great at the right time do.

I have always said I would rather have a team of good solid, consistent and reliable players than a team of average players with a few stars thrown in.

Teams made up of good players care more about the team winning because they need the team to be successful themselves while great players tend to believe everyone needs them to be successful.

 

[JustChip]

I'll shift a bit here.

I don't think the "core" is overhyped. Well maybe Dak, since he's part of the core.

But there is little doubt in my mind if that they tweaked the edges of the roster better (LB, DT) and you had a real HC (and QB), the "core" would be just fine. But, IMO, we've reached the end of this road so it's time to take it apart and start over. That means maybe moving some of the core. I'd be open to see what Parsons is worth. Hate to give him up but he's basically useless on a team that shuold be in a rebuild. Do everything to convince Dak to accept a trade. Lamb? I'd see what his value is but if you were turning it over to Lance, I think you need to keep Lamb and Ferguson to help Lance. I'd consider trading Martin. Again, you'd love to have him helping run the line in front of Lance but he's only got a couple years left, so see what he can get you.

I have no doubt that’s the conversation going on in Philly. It won’t be here, though. It’ll be concerning coaches.

The main decision that needs to be made is to extend Dak or not. I wouldn’t. I would explore a trade. It has the added challenge of his no trade clause, but that just means he has to be part of the exploration.

If a reasonable trade can’t be consummated, I still don’t extend him. I ride with him next year. But that also means I keep McCarthy for 1 more year, too. It would be counterproductive to change schemes for just 1 year.

 

[Verdict]

One of the hard parts of losing in the manner the Cowboys did Sunday is the very real possibility that what was considered the strong core of this team is probably incapable (as currently constituted) to compete seriously for a championship. And the evidence is clear- they can’t win big playoff games against the best teams in the league. That’s not an opinion. That’s based on this team’s playoff record WITH this core.

What is the core of this team? It‘s the guys this FO believes are the best players we have. The guys we would never trade or cut because of their value to the team. Here is that core:

• Dak Prescott (8 yr vet- 2-5 playoff record)
• Micah Parsons (3 yr vet- 1-2 in the playoffs)
• Cedee Lamb (4 yr vet- 1-2 in the playoffs)
• Zack Martin (11 yr vet- 3-6 in the playoffs)
• Tyron Smith (14 yr vet- 3-6 in the playoffs)
• DeMarcus Law (11 yr vet- 3-6 in the playoffs)
• Tyler Smith (2 yr vet- 1-2 in the playoffs)
• Trevon Diggs (5 yr vet)

So having all these talented players on this roster, some of which are very highly paid or are about to get bigger paydays, has amounted to 3 total playoff wins over the last 14 seasons? That’s it? These “must have” guys are so valuable as a core, we have won 3 wild card playoff games with them? With two different HCs and multiple different coordinators in some cases.

Many fans here won’t like this…but there’s a very good chance that the core of this roster- the centerpiece of talent for this team - is vastly overrated. OR…we have a front office that is incapable of finding a coaching staff that can motivate and shape this core into playoff winners. It actually could be both.

This organization will NOT look in the mirror and ask the tough question: What if the core of our team isn’t that great?

It’s idiotic to continue to pay Tyron, Tank, Steele, Dak, Martin to be middling players.

Martins reputation is still high. But he’s not making a difference. Trade Martin for a first round pick while his value is still high. Trade the rest of those guys if you can make it work under the cap. Get some salvage value out of those contracts and rebuild them.

Be on the lookout for QB options.

 

[Bobhaze]

I didn't say you sucked, but to pretend that we know more than a pro staff is ridiculous. They watch film for hours a day, they see them up close and personal in practice etc. That's all....the childish ones are those that really believe that they have all the answers from watching a game on TV. Me included

I’m just basing my thoughts on the results we’ve been getting in the playoffs. Isn’t that the bottom line? I’m not saying that everyone in the FO is incapable of any good evaluations.

But I am saying that the results we’ve been getting in the playoffs time after time begs the question, “What if the core of talent isn’t that good?” Based on the results we’ve been getting, these guys may not be that good. Hey I know I’m not an expert. But I sure hope the guys who are will do a better job than what we’ve been getting.

 

[Bobhaze]

Beyond qualifying for the playoffs, the only thing that matters are how players perform in the playoffs.

NFL history is littered with great All-Pro/Pro-Bowl players who never won a Super Bowl and a lot of "just good" players who have multiple Super Bowl wins.

Eli Manning threw a lot of interceptions, but played great in two playoff runs including beating the seemingly invincible and heavily favored Patriots twice.

Trent Dilfer played well enough to win a Super Bowl with the Ravens. The defense may have been the reason, but he played the part his team needed and they won.

Nick Foles has always been an average quarterback but when he got the chance to play in the playoffs, he played well enough to help the Eagles win their first Super Bowl.

Tiki Barber was one of the NFL's top running backs but shocked the Giants by retiring abruptly and the team responded by immediately winning a Super Bowl despite losing their star player.

I played a lot of sports in my life and one constant in all of them has been that the best players do not always win championships .. the good players who play great at the right time do.

I have always said I would rather have a team of good solid, consistent and reliable players than a team of average players with a few stars thrown in.

Teams made up of good players care more about the team winning because they need the team to be successful themselves while great players tend to believe everyone needs them to be successful.

This is so accurate. Isnt what happens as a team the bottom line? Not how many All pros we have?

 

[kskboys]

I didn't say you sucked, but to pretend that we know more than a pro staff is ridiculous. They watch film for hours a day, they see them up close and personal in practice etc. That's all....the childish ones are those that really believe that they have all the answers from watching a game on TV. Me included

Then you should stay out of discussions instead of running around being childish.

I'm a reader. I read prolifically from scouting reports, player evaluations, anything I can get my hands on. I have never pretended to know more than NFL personnel, that was your little schtick that you just repeat ad nauseum when you don't understand something. You have assigned thoughts to me that I don't have. It's just weird, dude.

I have my thoughts about Damone from scouting reports, which are written by "pro staffers". Here it is: "Info processing is still developing. Late to recognize route development. Short area quickness is lackluster. Slap tackler who doesn't drive his weight through targets. Poor lateral mover who will have to eat blocks to get around them. Slow to rev up his engines in pursuit. Play speed never reaches full potential. Technically inconsistent w/ how he constructs blocks. An 80% player who just never seems to turn it on."

So, maybe you didn't realize I was getting info from the experts. I can accept that, as most here just spew, and that bugs me also. Don't blame you for being irritated by that. FYI, I'm not one who says crapp just to say crapp. I don't have the time nor the inclination to watch hours upon days of tapes, so I rely on those who do it for a living.

Clark is a "Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane" type of player. Great physique, but lacks the physical skillset to start. Going into the season w/ him as our starter was foolish. Apparently my "experts" know more than the "experts" on the Cowboys. In case you haven't noticed, Damone is playing 100% as his scouting report says he would.

 

[InPhiltraitor]

One of the hard parts of losing in the manner the Cowboys did Sunday is the very real possibility that what was considered the strong core of this team is probably incapable (as currently constituted) to compete seriously for a championship. And the evidence is clear- they can’t win big playoff games against the best teams in the league. That’s not an opinion. That’s based on this team’s playoff record WITH this core.

What is the core of this team? It‘s the guys this FO believes are the best players we have. The guys we would never trade or cut because of their value to the team. Here is that core:

• Dak Prescott (8 yr vet- 2-5 playoff record)
• Micah Parsons (3 yr vet- 1-2 in the playoffs)
• Cedee Lamb (4 yr vet- 1-2 in the playoffs)
• Zack Martin (11 yr vet- 3-6 in the playoffs)
• Tyron Smith (14 yr vet- 3-6 in the playoffs)
• DeMarcus Law (11 yr vet- 3-6 in the playoffs)
• Tyler Smith (2 yr vet- 1-2 in the playoffs)
• Trevon Diggs (5 yr vet)

So having all these talented players on this roster, some of which are very highly paid or are about to get bigger paydays, has amounted to 3 total playoff wins over the last 14 seasons? That’s it? These “must have” guys are so valuable as a core, we have won 3 wild card playoff games with them? With two different HCs and multiple different coordinators in some cases.

Many fans here won’t like this…but there’s a very good chance that the core of this roster- the centerpiece of talent for this team - is vastly overrated. OR…we have a front office that is incapable of finding a coaching staff that can motivate and shape this core into playoff winners. It actually could be both.

This organization will NOT look in the mirror and ask the tough question: What if the core of our team isn’t that great?

It’s not just the core that’s perennially overrated, it’s the entire roster. I’ve always felt that if the Cowboys are fielding a team that’s legitimately a plus 500 team, there’s an emphasis to turn them into Super Bowl contenders. Why? Because everyone benefits. The media, the league, and the buzz generated by the love/hate Dallas Cowboys relationship. The heat from those flames permeates not only the team, but the fan base, and creates a false sense of entitlement.

The last two days have been filled with “All that talent” comments. I’m saying to myself, “Really, where’s all this talent?” two-fifths of the O-line is adequate at best, two-fifths can decline at any moment due to Father Time, a true TE didn’t emerge until this year, and do you really want to address the RB position? Flip to the defensive side. Still can not consistently stop the run, the LB’s are a mess, safety play is spotty and our corners, if not intercepting passes, are not immune to yielding big receiving numbers.

Our players seem to be graded by this organization on some kind of curve that affords them a loftier status than players on other rosters have the luxury of receiving. Bob, your last sentence references “look in the mirror”. Therein lies the key to change and it can only happen if Jerry Jones literally looks in the mirror and recognizes that the reflection he sees needs to summon the wisdom and courage to fire the man that’s looking back at him.

 

[Ranching]

I’m just basing my thoughts on the results we’ve been getting in the playoffs. Isn’t that the bottom line? I’m not saying that everyone in the FO is incapable of any good evaluations.

But I am saying that the results we’ve been getting in the playoffs time after time begs the question, “What if the core of talent isn’t that good?” Based on the results we’ve been getting, these guys may not be that good. Hey I know I’m not an expert. But I sure hope the guys who are will do a better job than what we’ve been getting.

You don't win 12 games in this league without good players. They were over confident and poorly coached. MM didn't light a fire under their butts and Quinn out thought himself by running zone. We don't play much zone, that's why their receivers were running wide open. Micha should have taken over MLB when we lost LVE. That's my take

 

[Reality]

This is so accurate. Isnt what happens as a team the bottom line? Not how many All pros we have?

Exactly!

 

[Momanpr100]

The talent is always overrated in Dallas.