What is New England plotting with their 60M of cap space?

[LocimusPrime]

that is what having stability at QB with the most dominant QB for 20 years allows you to do.
furthermore the QB gives the team team-friendly deals because he wants to be the greatest ever.
hope dak stays healthy for 20 years and you will see similar levels of cap flexibility as time moves on - even after his rookie deal.

Plus they don't spend a lot on the Oline ( Brady makes it work)....they don't spend a ton on wide receivers ( the system and Brady makes it work.....and they don't really spend any money on Rbs ( they just can plug and play).

 

[waldoputty]

Up until 3 or 4 years ago that would have been 25% of a team's cap, and nobody is giving a 40-year old $30M per year.

Free agency isn't an auction. Highest bid doesn't always win. What the most desperate team would pay for the best QB in the NFL doesn't matter if the best QB in the NFL absolutely will not play for that team. What the most desperate team would/could pay probably would exceed what the team who signed the guy actually did pay. That doesn't mean the team got a great deal that is cap friendly because the most desperate team determined the "market value" for the best QB. The QB wouldn't play for the most desperate team so they're irrelevant. They weren't even in the market.

The comps are skewed by the fact that they were signed in different years under different cap circumstances and by different teams. Brady may be worth 2 or even 3 Flacco's but that doesn't mean Joe Flacco is the guy who has the correct contract and Brady's contract should be based off Flacco's numbers. There have been a number of players who have outplayed Flacco over the years and who have made less than him. The 49ers gave $19M/year for Kaepernick and he's been struggling to even be their starter at times. If the 49ers were smart they'd just cut him.

The Bears gave Jay Cutler just as much as Flacco and Cutler flat out sucks. In fact, he has the highest active contract value of any QB. Of any player for that matter. Relative to Cutler, guys like Rodgers, Brady, Ryan, or even Dak are probably worth at least twice as much. That doesn't mean those guys deserve contracts that are worth $35M/year, it just means that the Bears made a horrible decision and nobody is going to follow their lead. If one team made it a requirement for all teams to match, teams would be suffering from the contract the Skins gave to Haynesworth. He received $14M/year and it wasn't for another 5 years that a contract was signed that bested it. Why? Because stupid franchises don't set the market with each new contract they sign.

You're also comparing averages. Longer contracts typically have higher averages as base salaries increase towards the end of the deal. Cutler has an average of $18M, is there any chance he gets his $19.2M base and $2.5M roster bonus in 2020? Any chance he gets his $17.5M base and $2.5M roster bonus in 2019? For a guy who is turnover prone, has a career QB rating of 85.7, and who could potentially have lead his team to it's 7th consecutive losing season? Absolutely not. I wouldn't even be confident he's on their roster this year if I were him. All of a sudden his lead-leading contract total just lost 57% of it's total value. Brady has basically been getting small 2 and 3 year extensions. There are no later years.

The cap is increasing and as long as it continues to increase, the contract numbers will climb. Tom Brady is almost 40-years-old. No one should expect him to have contract on par with Andrew Luck who is just 27-years-old. Same goes for Russell Wilson who's just 28 or even Aaron Rodgers who, at the age of 33, is still significantly younger than Brady while also being significantly older than the other two.

Tom Brady signed a contract to be the highest paid player in the NFL in 2010. $18M/year at a time when the cap was in the $120-$130M range. Right on par with Peyton Manning who signed an $18M/year deal just a year later. Now that we are sitting at a cap projected to be $168M, the present day equivalent of that contract in terms of cap percentage would be $24.5M/year. Brady hasn't been underpaid just as Manning hasn't been underpaid. They just played for a long time and most of their career was in a completely different world in terms of the salary cap. The cap has almost tripled since they came into the league.

Aaron Rodgers will ultimately have the same thing happen to him, just as all the players you are saying Brady should be making more than will. If Rodgers was a 29-year-old free agent right now as he was in 2013, he might actually get $30M/year. His $22M/year under a $123M cap is equivalent to $30M/year in todays cap, percentage-wise.

That is what I mean by a team-friendly contract.
Stupid franchises dont set the market because the top QBs have not been demanding their worth.
When I say top QB, I mean Manning and Brady.
If they wanted to (meaning deal with the franchise tag etc), they would be able to extract the free market price for their services.
You are talking about teams signing QBs because of a lack of supply under a lot of uncertainty.
Yet Manning and Brady would have offered high performance at minimal risk.
The owner should be willing to pay an incredible portion of their cap because these QBs can win with less.

 

[sean10mm]

and they are a one yard from Beast Mode and an ATL FG from 0 SBs in 13 years with Brady and Belichick

And they're a couple of 100% fluke catches from being 5-0 in Super Bowls by 2012.

And it was only a 100% fluke catch that even put them in range for Beast Mode to ice the game in the first place.

cutting star players and being arrogant has cost them dearly....

Yeah, 5 rings, really must sting.

they traded Chandler Jones, Jamie Collins and let D Revis walk and were losing 28-3 in the SB before ATL enjoyed a Choke and a Smile

They're contenders EVERY YEAR because they focus on the long term, and let guys go when it would cost them too much. They had the #1 scoring defense in the NFL *AFTER* letting Jones, Collins and Revis go, kind of an important detail there.

And Revis was never going to have his option picked up because it was basically a balloon payment. His whole deal was written as a 1 year rental with fake numbers in dummy years to massage his ego.

The Patriots keeping Revis anyway would have been the classic Jerry move of sentiment & hype over sound management. By the way, Revis has turned into garbage. It's like when they let Welker walk, he had 1 good season and then died, it was the right long-term move to drop him even though it looked bad at the time.

they won so they get to strut but they we really close to disaster

And again, they lost on pure flukes in both Giants games. Ifs and buts don't mean jack.

Dislike the Pats all you want, but they just won the Super Bowl AND have a ton of cap space. They're clearly managing their roster and budget better than anybody. The whole MAKE LOTS OF HYPE MOVES, RE-SIGN EVERY STAR OVER 30 crap that Jerry pulled until the last couple of years still seems to hypnotize some Cowboys fans, but it was super dumb.

 

[waldoputty]

and they are a one yard from Beast Mode and an ATL FG from 0 SBs in 13 years with Brady and Belichick

And they're a couple of 100% fluke catches from being 5-0 in Super Bowls by 2012.

And it was only a 100% fluke catch that even put them in range for Beast Mode to ice the game in the first place.

cutting star players and being arrogant has cost them dearly....

Yeah, 5 rings, really must sting.

they traded Chandler Jones, Jamie Collins and let D Revis walk and were losing 28-3 in the SB before ATL enjoyed a Choke and a Smile

They're contenders EVERY YEAR because they focus on the long term, and let guys go when it would cost them too much. They had the #1 scoring defense in the NFL *AFTER* letting Jones, Collins and Revis go, kind of an important detail there.

And Revis was never going to have his option picked up because it was basically a balloon payment. His whole deal was written as a 1 year rental with fake numbers in dummy years to massage his ego.

The Patriots keeping Revis anyway would have been the classic Jerry move of sentiment & hype over sound management. By the way, Revis has turned into garbage. It's like when they let Welker walk, he had 1 good season and then died, it was the right long-term move to drop him even though it looked bad at the time.

they won so they get to strut but they we really close to disaster

And again, they lost on pure flukes in both Giants games. Ifs and buts don't mean jack.

Dislike the Pats all you want, but they just won the Super Bowl AND have a ton of cap space. They're clearly managing their roster and budget better than anybody. The whole MAKE LOTS OF HYPE MOVES, RE-SIGN EVERY STAR OVER 30 crap that Jerry pulled until the last couple of years still seems to hypnotize some Cowboys fans, but it was super dumb.

no one said to resign a over-30 star...

 

[Nightman]

and they are a one yard from Beast Mode and an ATL FG from 0 SBs in 13 years with Brady and Belichick

And they're a couple of 100% fluke catches from being 5-0 in Super Bowls by 2012.

And it was only a 100% fluke catch that even put them in range for Beast Mode to ice the game in the first place.

cutting star players and being arrogant has cost them dearly....

Yeah, 5 rings, really must sting.

they traded Chandler Jones, Jamie Collins and let D Revis walk and were losing 28-3 in the SB before ATL enjoyed a Choke and a Smile

They're contenders EVERY YEAR because they focus on the long term, and let guys go when it would cost them too much. They had the #1 scoring defense in the NFL *AFTER* letting Jones, Collins and Revis go, kind of an important detail there.

And Revis was never going to have his option picked up because it was basically a balloon payment. His whole deal was written as a 1 year rental with fake numbers in dummy years to massage his ego.

The Patriots keeping Revis anyway would have been the classic Jerry move of sentiment & hype over sound management. By the way, Revis has turned into garbage. It's like when they let Welker walk, he had 1 good season and then died, it was the right long-term move to drop him even though it looked bad at the time.

they won so they get to strut but they we really close to disaster

And again, they lost on pure flukes in both Giants games. Ifs and buts don't mean jack.

Dislike the Pats all you want, but they just won the Super Bowl AND have a ton of cap space. They're clearly managing their roster and budget better than anybody. The whole MAKE LOTS OF HYPE MOVES, RE-SIGN EVERY STAR OVER 30 crap that Jerry pulled until the last couple of years still seems to hypnotize some Cowboys fans, but it was super dumb.

Falling back on 3 SBs over a decade ago is exactly my point.........it gave them the leeway to gamble and those gambles have mostly backfired....they are gifted a trip to the AFCCG game every year and only have 2 miracle SBs to show for it........they even blew their 19-0 season and have the same amount of Lombardis as lucky Eli in the last decade

It is like @waldoputty is saying , they are trying to make it harder on themselves out of boredom

 

[LocimusPrime]

Man they could sign like 4 probowl defensive ends with 60 million. Or 2 probowl DEs and 2 probowl DTs
Or like an entire probowl caliber secondary. Geez. Embarrassment of riches

 

[haleyrules]

Man they could sign like 4 probowl defensive ends with 60 million. Or 2 probowl DEs and 2 probowl DTs
Or like an entire probowl caliber secondary. Geez. Embarrassment of riches

You ain't kidding. How do they stay in good cap condition AND win the SB.

 

[haleyrules]

Plus they don't spend a lot on the Oline ( Brady makes it work)....they don't spend a ton on wide receivers ( the system and Brady makes it work.....and they don't really spend any money on Rbs ( they just can plug and play).

I give Belichick at lot of credit also...along with his coaching staff. But, Yes. Brady is the backbone of the club.

 

[haleyrules]

I dont know.
Tom Brady is worth at least $30M/yr, and probably more.

If Brady was auctioned off, the sky is the limit.
Look at the comps.o
should Brady be worth at least 2 Flaccos?

Team Total
Value Avg./Year Total
Guaranteed Avg.
Guar./Year % Guar. Free
Agency
Andrew Luck Colts $122,970,000 $24,594,000 $47,000,000 $9,400,000 38.2% 2022 UFA
Drew Brees Saints $24,250,000 $24,250,000 $24,250,000 $24,250,000 100.0% 2018 UFA
Joe Flacco Ravens $66,400,000 $22,133,333 $44,000,000 $14,666,667 66.3% 2022 UFA
Aaron Rodgers Packers $110,000,000 $22,000,000 $54,000,000 $10,800,000 49.1% 2020 UFA
Russell Wilson Seahawks $87,600,000 $21,900,000 $31,700,000 $7,925,000 36.2% 2020 UFA
Ben Roethlisberger Steelers $87,400,000 $21,850,000 $34,250,000 $8,562,500 39.2% 2020 UFA
Carson Palmer Cardinals $21,000,000 $21,000,000 $11,650,000 $11,650,000 55.5% 2019 UFA
Eli Manning Giants $84,000,000 $21,000,000 $36,500,000 $9,125,000 43.5% 2020 UFA
Philip Rivers Chargers $83,250,000 $20,812,500 $37,500,000 $9,375,000 45.0% 2020 UFA
Cam Newton Panthers $103,800,000 $20,760,000 $41,000,000 $8,200,000 39.5% 2021 UFA
Matt Ryan Falcons $103,750,000 $20,750,000 $42,000,000 $8,400,000 40.5% 2019 UFA
Tom Brady Patriots $41,000,000 $20,500,000 $28,000,000 $14,000,000 68.3% 2020 UFA
Kirk Cousins Commanders $19,953,000 $19,953,000 $19,953,000 $19,953,000 100.0% 2017 UFA

Of all the players in the NFL...Brady has earned his money, if that is even possible.

 

[waving monkey]

I like the scenario where we maintain our year in year out competitiveness in the play offs
like NE. They keep drafting QB's and getting a higher return on investment also.
I'd like to stop crashing and burning

 

[Yakuza Rich]

If they sign a FA to more money, they'll keep the length of the contract short. The length of the contract is why most teams struggle in FA. Most teams sign FA's to big deals and lengthy amount of time and one way or the other they have to deal with that for 5, 6 or 7 years. The Pats may dole out some big $$$, but keep the contract to 1 or 2 years. If they like the FA after 1 or 2 years, they'll maybe get him an extension. Otherwise, they'll take their money and give extension to players like Chris Hogan, Malcolm Brown, Malcolm Butler, etc. and incremental hikes and then sign a bunch of value FA's that they feel they can get at a good price and fit their offensive and defensive schemes.




YR

 

[sean10mm]

It is like @waldoputty is saying , they are trying to make it harder on themselves out of boredom

This has it exactly backwards. The Patriots are always making it as easy on themselves as possible, it's just that their philosophy is different from yours so you can't wrap your head around it. Letting expensive free agents walk is almost always the CORRECT long-term move in the modern NFL, but you see any star leaving the team as a blunder, so you end up contriving ridiculous theories involving "making it harder on themselves out of boredom" because you can't accept that you're starting from a false premise that's leading you to silly conclusions.

Fans generally see everything through the lens of just accumulating the most talent possible THIS YEAR. They want to make the odds of winning the next Super Bowl as high as possible. But when you do that you usually end up not winning the Super Bowl anyway, and a bunch of the big hype moves invariably bust, and your salary cap is a tire fire. The better strategy is to care about making the playoffs every year for the foreseeable future. The Patriots will sacrifice this year if it means they're better off for the next several years in terms of cap space/draft picks/whatever. Put another way, the Patriots care less about being 15-1 this year than they care about being at least 12-4 every year. The more often you make the playoffs, the better your odds of getting hot at the right time and getting some lucky breaks and winning it all. Instead of trying to improve their batting average by 5% they just take twice as many swings.

Revis didn't make the Jets any good, Chandler Jones didn't make the Cardinals any good, Jamie Collins didn't improve the Browns in the slightest. They had some value obviously, but they weren't the difference makers that their hype made fans think they were. The value of getting them off the salary cap books and getting trade value or comp picks in return outweighed their value on the team.

 

[Nightman]

Revis didn't make the Jets any good, Chandler Jones didn't make the Cardinals any good, Jamie Collins didn't improve the Browns in the slightest. They had some value obviously, but they weren't the difference makers that their hype made fans think they were. The value of getting them off the salary cap books and getting trade value or comp picks in return outweighed their value on the team

that is just ridiculous.....they are all way above average players......I watched them make the Pats a lot better and their play continued for their new teams.........Belichick cut them because of money..........he is convinced he can plug spare parts in and keep rolling

 

[sean10mm]

that is just ridiculous.....they are all way above average players......I watched them make the Pats a lot better and their play continued for their new teams.........Belichick cut them because of money..........he is convinced he can plug spare parts in and keep rolling

The rings suggest he's right! If we're talking big picture, why should fans care about anything else? If any other coach had 5 maybe we could argue against him based on style points or something, but lol

 

[icup]

that is just ridiculous.....they are all way above average players......I watched them make the Pats a lot better and their play continued for their new teams.........Belichick cut them because of money..........he is convinced he can plug spare parts in and keep rolling

i thought the patriots defense played better/the same WITHOUT collins. but i don't think money was the only reason for his departure either. reports were coming out at the time that collins was doing his own thing too often on defense (they called it freelancing). collins also made comments about being more interested in video games than he was about football. or something to that effect.

you could argue that they miss jones' pass rush. they brought in a lot of guys to try to fill that hole. but was jones worth the risk? no, they won a super bowl without him too. chandler jones had an episode where he was almost naked, and high out of his mind. he went to a police station in his underwear i believe it was. tripping balls on synthetic marijuana. not surprised the pats didn't invest more money in jones. especially considering his brother and his brother's problems with cocaine among other things. i think jon jones was on house arrest or arrested for a period of time too. relapsed several times. not good. tremendous talent but lots of risky variables at play when you're thinking about committing pass rusher money to a person.

revis was a monster in new england. but revis came to new england for a super bowl. then the pats beat seattle. the following offseason, he cashed another giant check from the jets and he's packed it in since then. revis doesn't care about football anymore. or at least that's what it looks like. we'll see if he has any pride left. maybe they move him to safety this year and he does some good things. crazy how fast his decline has been. but, belichick knew what he had in malcom butler.

the patriots have never been afraid to cut/trade anyone not named tom brady. usually the patriots do an excellent job of getting rid of a player 1 year too early vs. 1 year too late. they do not pay players for past performance. the amount of money you pay a player vs. the impact said player has on a game is definitely an equation that the patriots have and have exercised with success over and over again.

i think they're going to let hightower test the market. and i also think that hightower is going to come back if the pats can get reasonably close to the offers he's getting. i don't think hightower would play in a place like cleveland for an extra $500k. then again, he's got 2 rings now so he might want to cash in while he still can.

 

[Nightman]

i thought the patriots defense played better/the same WITHOUT collins. but i don't think money was the only reason for his departure either. reports were coming out at the time that collins was doing his own thing too often on defense (they called it freelancing). collins also made comments about being more interested in video games than he was about football. or something to that effect.

you could argue that they miss jones' pass rush. they brought in a lot of guys to try to fill that hole. but was jones worth the risk? no, they won a super bowl without him too. chandler jones had an episode where he was almost naked, and high out of his mind. he went to a police station in his underwear i believe it was. tripping balls on synthetic marijuana. not surprised the pats didn't invest more money in jones. especially considering his brother and his brother's problems with cocaine among other things. i think jon jones was on house arrest or arrested for a period of time too. relapsed several times. not good. tremendous talent but lots of risky variables at play when you're thinking about committing pass rusher money to a person.

revis was a monster in new england. but revis came to new england for a super bowl. then the pats beat seattle. the following offseason, he cashed another giant check from the jets and he's packed it in since then. revis doesn't care about football anymore. or at least that's what it looks like. we'll see if he has any pride left. maybe they move him to safety this year and he does some good things. crazy how fast his decline has been. but, belichick knew what he had in malcom butler.

the patriots have never been afraid to cut/trade anyone not named tom brady. usually the patriots do an excellent job of getting rid of a player 1 year too early vs. 1 year too late. they do not pay players for past performance. the amount of money you pay a player vs. the impact said player has on a game is definitely an equation that the patriots have and have exercised with success over and over again.

i think they're going to let hightower test the market. and i also think that hightower is going to come back if the pats can get reasonably close to the offers he's getting. i don't think hightower would play in a place like cleveland for an extra $500k. then again, he's got 2 rings now so he might want to cash in while he still can.

Fair points but Bill loves to leak the warts once he releases a player.....it is all about the money though

Revis hung it up this year but he was good last year and more to the point would have stayed great in NE

They have to pay Butler and Hightower and maybe Marty B but there is no reason to be stay too far under the cap besides showing off

 

[Trouty]

Well then you're desperate and amazingly inconsistent.

He also did it in Cleveland. Why so many Zoners gloss over his success in Cleveland is beyond me.

But "Belicheat" derp derp derp

 

[Trouty]

That is exactly what I am referring to.

He also turned around a horrid franchise in Cleveland, completely revitalized that team with an All-Time staff. He is the best ever, and so many Zoners have a complex with it.

As always, in any Pats/Brady/Belichick thread, the salt is strong.

 

[Trouty]

He's done it before?

When? What year?

1995 Cleveland Browns. Their last win in a Post-season game. Inherited a 1 win team...

 

[Trouty]

Well if that's the low bar set that 11-5 and failing to get into the playoffs is winning then Jason Garrett must be a big time winner. 13 wins, 1 seed, rookie QB. Yet I read from the same person in another thread how the Cowboys aren't a desired FA destination because they don't win.

Belichick has done nothing as a head coach without the greatest QB to ever play. I don't know why people take offense to that but it's true.

Matt Cassel compared to Dak Prescott is being disingenuous. Stahp.