What is with all of the Ramsey love?

[ConceptCoop]

I've watched a lot of him. He's the guy I wanted at 4. Never saw anything that led me to believe he's a big hitter, but I'm not even talking about laying big hits.

FWIW, the first two profiles that pop up when you Google his name specifically mention that he's good, hard tackler. You likely disagree, but it's worth noting that analysts seem to view it as a strength.

 

[LocimusPrime]

people get a pet cant and don't let go. these are the people that will be in here telling us each and every week every time ramsey has a great play and get double obnoxious if zeke has a bad week that week.

This is definitely going to happen throughout the season. Week 1 might be tough for EE supporters as they ease him into the game plan.

 

[ConceptCoop]

What metric did you use to determine the best secondary? I find it hard to believe with Arizona.

I didn't use a metric. I thought it was pretty much universally accepted. They are the only team to have two DBs on the first team All-Pro squad. Here's an article you might be interested in:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000574600/article/cardinals-headline-nfls-five-best-secondaries

 

[Corso]

Don't make me throw the leftover pot roast and chips at you, mate! Ramsey would have been a great addition to the King Jones' defense, but not make too much of a difference. With Elliott we are set for the next half decade or until Garrett falls on his own pitard.
Anymore bobly-wink out of you and I will call out the Rude Boys from the east of Manchester to deal with you, bloke!

That's it. I'm forcing you to marathon-listen to the Doors while watching Samurai Cop for 48 hours straight while eating Walmart barbecue from a bag.
I'm putting the 'Murica back in you!

 

[iceberg]

This is definitely going to happen throughout the season. Week 1 might be tough for EE supporters as they ease him into the game plan.

well yea, to be fair the zeke supporters will be flying that jock strap flag with every good game to run the ramsey fans noses in it.

that battle alone is already so very old.

 

[iceberg]

That's it. I'm forcing you to marathon-listen to the Doors while watching Samurai Cop for 48 hours straight while eating Walmart barbecue from a bag.
I'm putting the 'Murica back in you!

in all fairness, this does imply they have another style.

 

[LocimusPrime]

in all fairness, this does imply they have another style.

That walmart bbq isnt really that bad. The pre-marinated ribs are good. Just slap on the grill, get some potato salad, slaw, beans. Booom.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Please tell me you just didnt use SPARQ lol.

I used much more than just SPARQ scores. I just added it as part of the evidence to my argument.






YR

 

[conner01]

Even then, I believe he was the safest pick. The pics obviously effected his draft position but, the night of the draft, it was reported that the pic was believed to be 5 years old, which would mean that Tunsil was a Soph or Jr in HS when it was taken. He had no dirty tests, while at Ole Miss so to me, even though the pick surfaced, he was still the safest pick but that's just my own opinion.

I will say this, there are a lot of rumors about Elliott and drugs as well. The entire OSU football team, there are a lot of rumors about using.

Gotta feel sorry for tunsil
Kid has one major enemy

 

[iceberg]

That walmart bbq isnt really that bad. The pre-marinated ribs are good. Just slap on the grill, get some potato salad, slaw, beans. Booom.

children in africa see that **** and go "no thanks, i'll wait for sally struthers' meal..."

 

[Corso]

children in africa see that **** and go "no thanks, i'll wait for sally struthers' meal..."

Would you like some Sally Struther's food?
Sure, we all do!

 

[iceberg]

Would you like some Sally Struther's food?
Sure, we all do!

that's it - wal mart bbq tonight.

what the HELL was i thinking?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

that's it - wal mart bbq tonight.

what the HELL was i thinking?

I thought you quit drinking Ice?


;-)

 

[bounce]

Ramsey played plenty of safety at FSU. He was great covering the slot, which NFL safeties are asked to do a lot. Ramsey could do exactly what he did at FSU and have a full-time role in the NFL. He played the same role Tyrann Mathieu played at LSU. Tyrann was named to the All-Pro team this year.

But would he be asked to do what he did at FSU in the NFL, or would he be a full-time CB? If you're drafting a CB at #4, he'd better be projected to be an absolute lockdown corner. Not a guy who plays safety and covers the slot. Mathieu is a good example, but the difference is that he was picked #69, not #4, where we would have taken Ramsey. To be clear, I'd be absolutely fine with Ramsey on the team, and wouldn't have HATED the pick at 4, but there are just too many question marks, for me - anyway, to go all-in on a guy at #4 who would be asked to switch position.

 

[LocimusPrime]

Gotta feel sorry for tunsil
Kid has one major enemy

I feel sorry for his enemy. Tunsil is a 300lb + millionaire while his enemy is sitting at home drinking that off brand cola from a warm 2 liter bottle.

 

[CyberB0b]

I think Ramsey would have fared well here in the Cover 3/Cover 1 single high safety scheme we use. He could be the single high player, while Byron comes down and guards the TE or RB out of the backfield, or covers the flat. Oh well. I like Zeke, too.

 

[MichaelValentino]

He's a hybrid DB just like Byron Jones is. However, I think you can put Ramsey at SS and Jones probably doesn't fit there if you need to do that. That gives you a tremendous amount of flexibility in the defensive backfield. If a corner gets hurt, you can move him there. If a safety gets hurt, you can put him over there. You can essentially field your best 4-5 players in the defensive backfield far more often.

He's a player that can defend a big TE like Gronk, a big WR like Alshon Jeffrey, speedsters like Antonio Brown and quick slot guys like Cole Beasley and lock them down.

I think Byron has those capabilities as well, but with two players like that in the defensive backfield you're shutting down high profile passing offenses with either guy being able to lock on the top 2 pass catches from the other team. And if one of them gets injured, you still have that versatile player than can lock on the top receiver of the other team.

He's also an elite athlete as shown by his SPARQ score and he tackles well.

He's never said that he doesn't want to play safety. And scouts have said that they think he could be an All-Pro corner. Plus, Mike Mayock, who has a good history of judging DB's, raves about him.

Meanwhile we have EE who can only play 1 position, he has a mediocre SPARQ score and the position he is playing has a high rate of depreciation.








YR

YR,

I've always been impressed with your posts. In the weeks leading up to the draft I was torn between Ramsey and EE at 4. You were one of the best advocates for Ramsey (and Lynch). I envisioned a safety pairing of Ramsey-Jones that would rival any in Cowboys history, and two guys who would give the Cowboys a chance to match up with teams like the Pats. I was hoping somehow the Cowboys would also figure a way to get Jack, as the thought of speedy and athletic cover guys like Ramsey, Jones, Jack and Lee made me think of Jimmy Johnson's fast defenses of the early 90s. When I was wearing my "draft Ramsey" hat I thought ahead to 2017 and getting Fournette or Chubbs in the first round and then getting more help at CB and WR. Then, in 2017, with a healthy Romo (hopefully) the Cowboys would make a serious run for SB 52 (crushing NE or Pitts - you know, to make the fantasy even sweeter). When I was wearing my "draft Elliott" hat I was thinking of having a true three-down back with explosiveness and who can pass block and protect the ball running behind the best run blocking line in football, and what that would do for Romo, the passing game, TOP and the defense.

The Ramsey-Elliott debate will carry on if EE does not have a great rookie season. I think he will have a great year and I think Ramsey is going to be a solid, Pro Bowl DB for years. EE does not have to be Peterson and Ramsey does not have to be Ronnie Lott or Ed Reed (or Deion) to have great careers. I think we'll be looking back as we now do when it comes to Tyron Smith or JJ Watt. The Cowboys would have struck gold with either selection in 2011. I think we'll be saying the same about EE vs Ramsey three years from now. The Jack vs Jaylon Smith debate might be another story unless both guys return to health and stay healthy for 8-10 years.

 

[Jenky]

I used much more than just SPARQ scores. I just added it as part of the evidence to my argument.






YR

I understand that. I could show you sparq scores throughout the years with guys who are irrelevant and at the top and people like LeSean Mccoy and Le'Veon Bell scoring more towards "average" in their percentile. A high sparq score can potentially scare the **** out of me cause I want a football player more than anything and not an outstanding athlete who's a bust/can't play a lick.

This is just an example:

https://3sigmaathlete.com/rankings2015/wr/

Look how far down Amari Cooper is and look at who's at the top.

 

[iceberg]

I thought you quit drinking Ice?

;-)

been around 18 months so far. that's how i knew to run away from the struthers.

 

[ConceptCoop]

But would he be asked to do what he did at FSU in the NFL, or would he be a full-time CB? If you're drafting a CB at #4, he'd better be projected to be an absolute lockdown corner. Not a guy who plays safety and covers the slot. Mathieu is a good example, but the difference is that he was picked #69, not #4, where we would have taken Ramsey. To be clear, I'd be absolutely fine with Ramsey on the team, and wouldn't have HATED the pick at 4, but there are just too many question marks, for me - anyway, to go all-in on a guy at #4 who would be asked to switch position.

There's one question: Can he be a high level corner on the outside. To that I ask: Can Zeke? Because even if we assume the answer is no, Ramsey is an elite safety/slot prospect. That's one position in today's NFL. Tyrann Mathieu was a DPOY candidate at that spot. His all All-Pro corner teammate was not.

If you're arguing that a fs/slot isn't worth a top 4 pick, I can't take you seriously if you also think RB is. And again, this is worst case scenario. Best case - he's Patrick Peterson. A lot if analysts think he can be an All-Pro corner.

ETA: Honey Badger slipped because he got kicked out of LSU. That's hard to do - ask Jeremy Hill. He was absolutely a first round pick based on talent and production. And Ramsey is a bigger, stronger, faster version.