What is your contract-years-remaining limit on player hold-outs?

[Aerolithe_Lion]

1 year remaining is common and widely accepted as normal

3 years remaining is extreme and would make the player look foolish, aside from unicorn situations (example: let’s say Michael Vick signed a 5 year deal out of prison for the vet minimum just to have a nice backup job until he retires. 2010 was his second season out, so he’s now OPOY runner up who is the lowest paid player in the league and 3 years left on his contract. In that circumstance, it wouldn’t be unreasonable for the player to hold out.)

2 years remaining is right in the middle. Not something that should be commonly accepted as appropriate, but there are be situations that call for it. Let’s say there is a rookie player who’s playing pretty well, and signs a decent 5-year extension after year 3. With rookie seasons 4 and 5 left, he could be 5 years into the new contract and still have 2 years left on it. If this player was now top 5 at his position and being paid like a mid level player, I don’t think it would be too surprising if he held out. Cooper Kupp was a good example of this. He had 2 years left on his thrift store contract after he broke all those receiving records in 2021, so his agent went to their FO and told them it wasn’t working out anymore. While he didn’t technically hold out, there was speculation that he might before the contract ended up getting done.

 

[thunderpimp91]

Anything beyond a year remaining would be tough for me to support and would have to be a pretty extreme situation where a mid tier player puts themselves into MVP consideration. If a player has two years left but is worried about long term security with a contract then sign for a lesser AAV and get a deal done early. If a team values the player at all that its a no brainer all around. If their goal is to maximize every dollar they can then sorry, you have to play the waiting game, and shouldn't have signed as long of a deal to begin with.

 

[zrinkill]

Lamb I pay ...... he is young and has gotten better every year.

Parsons I probably pay ........... same as Lamb except that he seems to slow down at end of year.

Dak I don't pay ....... 8 year veteran that keeps making the same game losing mistakes, good regular season QB but I do not feel like he will take next step at this late stage.

 

[Diehardblues]

If you are under contract, I don't see anything that gives you the right to hold out. Especially if you are on a first round pick contract or on a second contract.

If anything, the guys who aren't drafted in the first but who earn starter or significant roles are the ones who should have the right to terminate the contract & get something resembling their actual value after say two seasons.

Of course, if at the end of the year all players were compensated based on their actual playing time & production, it would largely remove reasons for players to hold out.

Im not sure what you mean “ the right to hold out” ?

Last time I checked we are in America. Which provides anyone the right to at least attempt to renegotiate their contracts.

And the owners and or FO’s still have the power to stand firm . If the player sits out , he doesn’t get paid . Seems pretty simple to me .

It’s a risk for the players if the Mgmt doesn’t cave . It could cost him millions. And if he sits out entire season waiting on FA other teams might not be as eager worried he could be a problem down the road in his contract.

In the end only a very small percentage of players have the talent level and situational leverage to pursue such a tactic.

 

[Diehardblues]

Lamb I pay ...... he is young and has gotten better every year.

Parsons I probably pay ........... same as Lamb except that he seems to slow down at end of year.

Dak I don't pay ....... 8 year veteran that keeps making the same game losing mistakes, good regular season QB but I do not feel like he will take next step at this late stage.

Probably so but what if you don’t have a Franchise QB who can at least lead you to playoffs do you still want to commit a long term deal on a WR. No one is winning Super Bowls with just a great WR1.

And if this season collapses as a result of not resigning Dak and or Lamb does Parsons lose interest in staying here as he’d know that Cowboys would be bringing in a new HC looking for their next Franchise QB and all of the uncertainties attached possibly being on a non playoff or bottom tier team for height of his career.

 

[Diehardblues]

On the whole, the present hybrid system seems to suit the players quite well.

The generational wealth that the workers are currently getting is unprecedented

It always amazes me how so many fans are disgruntled by the wealth of the players and not the owners , league, sponsors , networks and everyone else involved .

 

[thunderpimp91]

It always amazes me how so many fans are disgruntled by the wealth of the players and not the owners , league, sponsors , networks and everyone else involved .

I get what you're saying, but ultimately the fans don't care at all about the owners, sponsors, networks, etc.

 

[McKDaddy]

Im not sure what you mean “ the right to hold out” ?

Well, in the rest of the world you have no legal basis. "Hold Out" ie, to not perform a job that you are under contract to perform is breach of contract.

Without regard to the law, a deal was made. Complete the deal and then you are free to pursue whatever you wish.

 

[KingCorcoran]

I seriously cant find any kind of argument that a player should get the most money he can. Of course other than being unmoralic, ascoial or greedy.

And because their careers are short is not an argument for me. There are other jobs that have short careers. Then the result will be: after your career go learn something else and back to work again.

The common nfl player usually earns enough money during his rookie deal. At least so much he doesnt have to work any more his whole life.

The rest of the players still will have enough money to invest into education to learn a new job. Well most have a good college degree anyways.
Then go find a job and work there for the rest of your life. Most people do that. AFAIK There is no law that forbids a former pro football player to work after his career.

And spare me (not you reality) with the narrative "i have a family to feed". Well good then, another reason to find a new job after your career!


To come back to your question: To me holding out is not easy to answer.

Short would be: for me its ok when the player holds out at the end of his final contract. That means somewhere near the last part of the last year of his contract.

But then there are also players like for instance Prescott, who i would never give the ok that he was/is holding out. The guy earned enough money so that he or his children have never to work again. There is no reason to hold out other than being greedy.
But as long as society supports this kind of behaviour and does not question it at least players will do it without any kind of wrong feelings.

Well, a good social climate is like peace: it is not given by itself. You (people) have to work for it to have it.

What is a “common nfl player” to you?

 

[zrinkill]

Probably so but what if you don’t have a Franchise QB who can at least lead you to playoffs do you still want to commit a long term deal on a WR. No one is winning Super Bowls with just a great WR1.

And if this season collapses as a result of not resigning Dak and or Lamb does Parsons lose interest in staying here as he’d know that Cowboys would be bringing in a new HC looking for their next Franchise QB and all of the uncertainties attached possibly being on a non playoff or bottom tier team for height of his career.

A young WR like Lamb would be a blessing to a young QB coming into the league.

And I do not think we have a franchise QB now.

 

[thunderpimp91]

Probably so but what if you don’t have a Franchise QB who can at least lead you to playoffs do you still want to commit a long term deal on a WR. No one is winning Super Bowls with just a great WR1.

And if this season collapses as a result of not resigning Dak and or Lamb does Parsons lose interest in staying here as he’d know that Cowboys would be bringing in a new HC looking for their next Franchise QB and all of the uncertainties attached possibly being on a non playoff or bottom tier team for height of his career.

That's a very fair argument, but the Cowboys aren't even coming close to winning super bowls with their current formula so do you let fear dictate the decision making process? Personally I think this team is good enough to at least contend for a playoff spot without Dak, even if they aren't truly super bowl contenders with a lesser QB.

Worst case scenario you let Dak walk and Micah wants traded....now you've freed up close to $100MM per year to spend and have a boat load of draft picks to restock with as you bring in a new HC with a new vision. There may be some pain associated with going that route, but it give me more hope than running it back year after year expecting different results.

 

[Kingofholland]

If you're in your final year and you're a top player being paid outside of the top 10 at your position I can understand holding out.

 

[McKDaddy]

If you're in your final year and you're a top player being paid outside of the top 10 at your position I can understand holding out.

I can understand asking to look at a remedy ... not so much holding out.

 

[Diehardblues]

I get what you're saying, but ultimately the fans don't care at all about the owners, sponsors, networks, etc.

They should cause they are the driving force behind the largest sports entertainment business. And their wealth is ultimately what has escalated the players wealth.

Too many fans lose sight the NFL is a business first.

 

[Diehardblues]

That's a very fair argument, but the Cowboys aren't even coming close to winning super bowls with their current formula so do you let fear dictate the decision making process? Personally I think this team is good enough to at least contend for a playoff spot without Dak, even if they aren't truly super bowl contenders with a lesser QB.

Worst case scenario you let Dak walk and Micah wants traded....now you've freed up close to $100MM per year to spend and have a boat load of draft picks to restock with as you bring in a new HC with a new vision. There may be some pain associated with going that route, but it give me more hope than running it back year after year expecting different results.

While I’d agree with much of your thoughts, from the business side which I’d promise you is what our owners and most teams look at is it’s a much more lucrative position to have a playoff contender team than basically starting over looking for another Franchise QB.

There’s basically 2 types of teams in the NFL. One is looking for a Franchise QB and or trying to develop one and the others are trying to build around one best they can. Of course the greater the QB easier it is to build around .

I understand many fans have given up hope Dak can lead us further but it’s not an absolute certainty despite whatever conclusions they’ve come to.

And why I’d imagine regardless the disappointment and frustration we might have most FO’s are going to try and retain their Franchise QB.

There’s a very short list of teams who walk away from consistent playoff caliber Franchise QB’s because they come up short.

 

[Coogiguy03]

Oh please.....show me the last player to do this. There MAY be a few but nowadays players DO honor their contracts, especially the guaranteed years. Generally speaking, they want a new or restructured deal after all guaranteed money is paid. In other words, when we hear the 5-year deal, 3 years guaranteed, the player will likely want new money after year three.

You don't know who Zack Martin is he did this around this time last year oh please

 

[Diehardblues]

A young WR like Lamb would be a blessing to a young QB coming into the league.

And I do not think we have a franchise QB now.

And how many years could Lamb waste in the prime of his career waiting on Cowboys to find another Franchise QB.

I don’t know anyone outside of some fans frustration who don’t believe Dak is Franchise QB. The bigger discussion is how good of one.

 

[blueblood70]

To me, it depends on how aggressive the agent is and what's the long term plans for said player?

For Parsons, I think he is a re-sign/core guy.
Now if his agent went all Watson and wanted an absurd amount guaranteed then I would explore trading him.

Players have the right to request an extension after 3 years in the NFL. So, I think it's justified for players to ask for a raise, even if under contract for a few years.
And I think at times it's benefitual to the team to re-sign guys early that you think are legit stars, as each year their price tag goes up.

They both got a raise in my opinion when you're offered & a fifth year option you're making over $1,000,000 a game that is more guarantees that is a race and if they want to hold out and lose that kind of money along with all the fines that start today more power to them but they're all going to play in 2024 even without a new deal I promise you none of them is going to be willing to eat that kind of money because that was a raise they were not making that much money the first three years...

So I'm not worried about this training camp hold out nonsense it's not a holdout it's posturing these veterans do not need all this work in the offseason. So I'm not gonna judge them for holding out but I expect him to be on this team in 2024 even if they don't get a new deal that's a lot of money they're not risking anything in my opinion Prescott broke his ankle off and got paid if you're that good injury or not you will get paid and yours not going to affect your pay because most players come back and play well they're all not Michael Gallup...

Chris Jones held out until a week before the season started last year nobody made that big a deal out of it that ohh the Kansas City Chiefs are cheap they should have got this done earlier they don't know what they're doing they're a bunch of bozos over there..lmao

so yeah none of this matters to me right now it matters to me that they all suited up game one and get ready to go and I believe they all will...

.

 

[Cowboys93]

Players should use their leverage when they have the ability to do so. I’m sorry but when you’re one hit away from unemployment and you got the weight to do it, I don’t blame them. It’s business and the Jones family should know that more than anything based on how they run this team. That being said each situation is different as far as a timetable goes, but I will say in the case of someone like CeeDee I 100% understand why he is not reporting to camp

 

[sunalsorises]

On the whole, the present hybrid system seems to suit the players quite well.

The generational wealth that the workers are currently getting is unprecedented

This is true for the players getting big contracts which is a small minority. It doesn't really work for the rank and file players which make up most of the league.