What is your contract-years-remaining limit on player hold-outs?

[McKDaddy]

Sure we are looking for them to be binding. Most aren’t willing to walk away if it means not getting paid. But personal services as such isn’t normal business.

We must remember the NFL has become the entertainment business. And breaking or renegotiating contracts is much more the norm than perhaps many realize.

I don't think the type of business should be a consideration though when it comes to fulfilling ones obligations.

Your earlier comments about owners & front offices giving in to these tactics is what has led to this becoming "normal" tactics in this industry is the problem. They need to tell agents & players those days are over and only deviate in instances where there is a clear greivance about not getting paid fairly rather than just what the player & agent want to get paid.

 

[zrinkill]

He caved in to a fat old guard last year and made him the highest paid in the NFL only to watch him flop around like a beached whale.

Who?

 

[Praxit]

...CD's situation makes most sense. Dak can wait.

Let Parsons prove himself under Zimmer.

 

[Streifenkarl]

To me this shouldn't be any different from a regular employer employee relationship. If I wanted more money and I think I'm worth it, I'm going to talk to my boss. If we agree then everything's fine. If we have to seek a compromise and get it done everything's fine. If not I will look elsewhere.

A deal always takes two parties. If Jerry wouldn't be known for caving in we wouldn't see so many hold outs. This goes for any owner of course. Personally I'd rather trade a player than let him force his wishes on me. I'd always be prepared to seek a compromise but I'd also have my ceiling.

If I was like one good player away from making a Superbowl I'd raise my ceiling of course compared to rebuild years.

 

[McKDaddy]

To me this shouldn't be any different from a regular employer employee relationship. If I wanted more money and I think I'm worth it, I'm going to talk to my boss. If we agree then everything's fine. If we have to seek a compromise and get it done everything's fine. If not I will look elsewhere.

A deal always takes two parties. If Jerry wouldn't be known for caving in we wouldn't see so many hold outs. This goes for any owner of course. Personally I'd rather trade a player than let him force his wishes on me. I'd always be prepared to seek a compromise but I'd also have my ceiling.

If I was like one good player away from making a Superbowl I'd raise my ceiling of course compared to rebuild years.

I always respected the way the Steelers towed the line with players like Le'veon Bell.

 

[Diehardblues]

I don't think the type of business should be a consideration though when it comes to fulfilling ones obligations.

Your earlier comments about owners & front offices giving in to these tactics is what has led to this becoming "normal" tactics in this industry is the problem. They need to tell agents & players those days are over and only deviate in instances where there is a clear greivance about not getting paid fairly rather than just what the player & agent want to get paid.

I agree but the owners probably won’t because they are too desperate for these talents.

Fans must come to the reality that the NFL isn’t just a football league. It’s sports entertainment on the highest level.

And as long as owners need these leading actors to promote their teams being broadcasted on TV, the demand will be there.

 

[KingCorcoran]

That may be the wildest take I've ever heard.

Brian Burns just went for 3 picks including a 2nd rounder
Chase Young a 3rd rounder
Sweat went for a 2nd rounder
Leonard Williams went for a 2nd and 5th rounder
Aaron Rodgers netted two 2nd rounders
Darren Waller a 3rd rounder
Sean Payton a 1st rounder
Calvin Ridley a 3rd and 5th
Chase Claypool a 2nd rounder
TJ Hockenson a 2nd rounder
Roquan Smith a 2nd rounder + 5th rounder + a player
Kadarius Toney a 3rd and 6th rounder
Christian McCaffrey a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th rounder
Deshaun Watson (3) 1st round picks + 3rd round, (2) 4th rounders
Devante Adams a 1st and 2nd rounder
Russell Wilson 3 players, 2 1sts and 2 2nd rounders
Khalil Mack a 2nd and 5th


These all happened within the last two seasons and you really think that a top, maybe THE top Edge player in football with multiple years of team control wont net even one 1st round draft pick? KC would give you a 1st round pick and laugh all the way to another super bowl.

No. I don’t think so. And the Cowboys’ owner is not inclined to pay top of market to his players and can’t trade them either indicates to me those days are gone. Reddick went for a third, one of two players with double digit sacks four years in a row. Draft picks, particularly 1st round picks, are more valuable than ever. If ever there’s proof it is foolish to part with draft picks for even a QB you need look no further than the Wilson and Watson trades. What GM in the contemporary NFL would risk their career on a draft pick(s) for an expensive player? Jerry is in no itching hurry to pay his top players and apparently can’t trade them either. His QB is about to be a free agent. His top receiver has not shown up for training camp. He formally considers Parsons a defensive end to save money on Micah’s fifth year option salary. Is this any way to run an NFL franchise trying to win a Super Bowl?

 

[shabazz]

This is true for the players getting big contracts which is a small minority. It doesn't really work for the rank and file players which make up most of the league.

The average NFL salary is roughly 3 million a year plus a lifetime pension and 5 years full covered Healthcare after they retire......not to mention numerous other money's from their memorabilia and other endorsements.

They are still above the poverty level of 15k a year, lol

I always promote athletes getting a degree or skill for life after football.

I'm thinking about starting a Fund Page for long snappers

 

[AbeBeta]

Unless it is your final contract year, holding out is not recommended, IMHO.

Why? Parsons has clearly outplayed his rookie deal. Dude's jersey is in Canton already after tying the record for most sacks in the first three seasons. He's earned the money.

 

[aikemirv]

...CD's situation makes most sense. Dak can wait.

Let Parsons prove himself under Zimmer.

I would negotiate with Parsons this year that upped his salary for current year and give him the huge chunk of guaranteed money next year. I would not give him the guaranteed money until then.

 

[thunderpimp91]

Yes, and I whole heartedly agree than less than Elite QB’s shouldn’t be receiving Market Price contracts but it illustrates how important to NFL franchises how important it is to them this era. Not only on the field but at the box office becoming basically the face of their franchise .

Unfortunately there’s only a handful of Elite QB’s in the league at any given time. The rest of the league has to try and find as good a QB as possible and build around them. That’s the reality of the league. Franchise QB’s represent stability.

Otherwise you go years, maybe decades continuing to strike out in the draft before hitting on the next Elite QB. Not to mention the instabilities in FO’s and Coaching staffs. It’s simply not a feasible position to be in for Franchises being one of the bottom tier teams looking for a QB.

No issues with what you're saying, it's a pretty accurate description of how most teams in the NFL operate, I just disagree with the philosophy of needing a franchise QB or sticking with the best QB that's readily available. I think so many bad teams struggle to find and develop QBs because they are indeed bad teams. I'm not and will never be asked to be an NFL GM, but I would absolutely look at prioritizing building up the rest of my roster instead of throwing 1st round picks at rookie QBs until I hit on one.

 

[silver]

I hate hold outs. The Zeke holdout killed us back in 2019 and we ended up missing the playoffs. We will probably endure the same fate this season.

 

[jaythecowboy]

I dont ever think a player is wrong for holding out. It isnt always smart though.

 

[Kingofholland]

I can understand asking to look at a remedy ... not so much holding out.

Holdouts aren't good for anyone but they get there because no other remedy could be reached and its the only leverage the player has. Same thing as when union workers go on strike.

 

[sunalsorises]

The average NFL salary is roughly 3 million a year plus a lifetime pension and 5 years full covered Healthcare after they retire......not to mention numerous other money's from their memorabilia and other endorsements.

They are still above the poverty level of 15k a year, lol

I always promote athletes getting a degree or skill for life after football.

I'm thinking about starting a Fund Page for long snappers

Even the practice squad players do really well in terms of the poverty level. I always thought that since the NFL basically forces kids to go to college they should be allowed to just major in football. A football major would consist of general life skills like how to handle the press, how to manage your money, how to take care of your body, how to stay out of trouble, etc. Making kids study Shakespeare and a laboratory science when they are there just to play football seems silly. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of true student athletes. Those that are not should be allowed to at least gain some life skills so they can navigate life during and after football.

 

[Diehardblues]

No issues with what you're saying, it's a pretty accurate description of how most teams in the NFL operate, I just disagree with the philosophy of needing a franchise QB or sticking with the best QB that's readily available. I think so many bad teams struggle to find and develop QBs because they are indeed bad teams. I'm not and will never be asked to be an NFL GM, but I would absolutely look at prioritizing building up the rest of my roster instead of throwing 1st round picks at rookie QBs until I hit on one.

I understand but there’s several teams I can think of in recent history which built solid teams with top defenses good enough to have more success but without a Franchise caliber QB struggled to even make the playoffs .

Look at Houston. Great defenses , no QB. And they tried drafting them but until they hit were on the short stick. Jets have a solid team and top defense and they've tried to draft QB’s but without that Franchise Qb can’t make playoffs . Bills another in this category until they landed Allen. Im sure there is more.

Without a Franchise QB good enough to at least reach the playoffs most teams are stuck in the mud. The only team which has probably built that type of team without a Franchise QB is SF. But Jimmy G became a Franchise caliber QB and most likely Purdy will as well. Not Elite but enough with a better supporting cast.

And why that will most likely remain the priority in Cap era in which your Franchise QB is basically only top talent you afford to remain for their entire career. It’s why they are fetching Market Price above their actual deserving value because that value goes beyond winning championships . It creates stability and a consistent product teams can promote and hype to be a contender..

Fans on the other hand are willing to hit the bottom if it has the possible potential or opportunity to continue looking for the next Mahomes, etc . Franchises know thats not a likely scenario. And why they settle for less and hope for the best.

 

[thunderpimp91]

No. I don’t think so. And the Cowboys’ owner is not inclined to pay top of market to his players and can’t trade them either indicates to me those days are gone. Reddick went for a third, one of two players with double digit sacks four years in a row. Draft picks, particularly 1st round picks, are more valuable than ever. If ever there’s proof it is foolish to part with draft picks for even a QB you need look no further than the Wilson and Watson trades. What GM in the contemporary NFL would risk their career on a draft pick(s) for an expensive player? Jerry is in no itching hurry to pay his top players and apparently can’t trade them either. His QB is about to be a free agent. His top receiver has not shown up for training camp. He formally considers Parsons a defensive end to save money on Micah’s fifth year option salary. Is this any way to run an NFL franchise trying to win a Super Bowl?

I agree with in the general idea that 1st round picks are very valuable, and it's exactly why I wouldn't be upset for a second if Jerry tried to flip a player or two for picks. The extreme you're making it out to be though is wild and the comparisons you're using isn't really accurate. Haasan Reddick is a soon to be 30 year old player looking for his 3rd contract and carries a $15M cap hit this year. That's a massive difference from a 25 year old Micah Parsons who is still on his rookie deal. Parsons would have exponentially higher trade value, and the comparison to Reddick is almost like comparing the Amari Cooper deal to the Tyreek Hill trade. Both really good players but one is elite and wasn't already on their 2nd contract.

As mentioned in my previous post the Giants just gave up the #39 and #141 picks to acquire Brian Burns and gave him $28M per year. Brian Burns is a really good player, but no one is comparing him to Micah Parsons. I respect your philosophy on draft picks and partially agree, but it's not the reality that we are seeing in the NFL today.

Trading players for picks hasn't exactly worked out poorly for Philly or Miami giving up 1st rounders for Brown and HIll. You can cherry pick what deals have and havent worked out, but ultimately there are examples of good trades and bad trades either way.

As far as Jerry not being able to trade them has there even been a rumor that he is shopping any of these guys around? Maybe there have been and I've been too tuned out to notice, but I'm completely unaware that the possibility of a trade has even been explored.

 

[JoeKing]

Why? Parsons has clearly outplayed his rookie deal. Dude's jersey is in Canton already after tying the record for most sacks in the first three seasons. He's earned the money.

Paying him early is not in the budget. Where have you been in the past 6 months? Have you not noticed the FO isn't spending money? They have a hard enough time extending contracts in their final year. Paying Parsons early is out of the question. If he were to hold out with 2 years left on his contract he would not get his money any sooner.

 

[McKDaddy]

I agree but the owners probably won’t because they are too desperate for these talents.

Fans must come to the reality that the NFL isn’t just a football league. It’s sports entertainment on the highest level.

And as long as owners need these leading actors to promote their teams being broadcasted on TV, the demand will be there.

But they aren't really desperate. There are way more applicants than positions.

Sure there are some instances where the talent of one applicant is superior to the talent of other available options for that team but if said talent is already getting paid quite handsomely, reaped the benefits of upfront money, guarantees, stardom opening other doors, etc., then as an owner I don't care that he or his agent now think he deserves more. If forced to, I will put someone else in his position and folks will still watch because my team isn't reliant on just one person.

 

[thunderpimp91]

I understand but there’s several teams I can think of in recent history which built solid teams with top defenses good enough to have more success but without a Franchise caliber QB struggled to even make the playoffs .

Look at Houston. Great defenses , no QB. And they tried drafting them but until they hit were on the short stick. Jets have a solid team and top defense and they've tried to draft QB’s but without that Franchise Qb can’t make playoffs . Bills another in this category until they landed Allen. Im sure there is more.

Without a Franchise QB good enough to at least reach the playoffs most teams are stuck in the mud. The only team which has probably built that type of team without a Franchise QB is SF. But Jimmy G became a Franchise caliber QB and most likely Purdy will as well. Not Elite but enough with a better supporting cast.

And why that will most likely remain the priority in Cap era in which your Franchise QB is basically only top talent you afford to remain for their entire career. It’s why they are fetching Market Price above their actual deserving value because that value goes beyond winning championships . It creates stability and a consistent product teams can promote and hype to be a contender..

Fans on the other hand are willing to hit the bottom if it has the possible potential or opportunity to continue looking for the next Mahomes, etc . Franchises know thats not a likely scenario. And why they settle for less and hope for the best.

You're not wrong, but we can't ignore the flip side of the equation either. Of the top 10 QBs by AAV (Burrow, Lawrence, Goff, Herbert, Jackson, Hurts, Murray, Watson, Cousins, Mahomes) only 5 of them made the playoffs last season and one of those (Watson) barely played. I'm just not seeing a direct correlation between paying a QB and success. Now I think there is a direct correlation between paying a QB and the perception that you have a super bowl contender which may be even more important to some owners. This is why the Cowboys have been given the super bowl or bust label going back to Romo every year. It's why the the Bengals with 35 wins and 2 playoff appearances since Burrow entered the league is talked about as a serious contender every year, but not Pittsburgh who has 40 wins and 3 playoff appearances in that same time period.

You also from last season have the examples of guys like Jared Goff who was looked at as a JAG or at least on the decline once he went to Detroit. As they built up that roster hes viewed as a top 10ish QB again. Baker Mayfield couldn't find anyone who wanted him and settled for a $4M contract last season and won a playoff game. Joe Flacco came from off the street to get the Browns to the playoffs. Kenny Pickett had more wins that touchdown passes last year and made the playoffs.

Now to be fair the final 4 QBs in the conference championship games, 3 of them were on that top 10 paid list so maybe there is something to that???

Appreciate the conversation by the way. You make some very valid arguments, I just view it as there is more than one way to build a team in the modern version of the game.