What specifically is wrong with Roy Williams?

[cowboyed]

...fitting into round holes Roy Williams is ideal when moving forward to the ball - either pass or run.

Unfortunately not every play in game allows Roy to principally play going forward.

More and more he is becoming a specialist. So in order to take advantage of the best Roy has to offer you need to substitute him in and out of packages.

That's alot of money being paid to what is turning into a package player.

Yeah there's alot worse in the league, but I agree with Wayne in seeing this league transform into a defend the pass first and plug the gap on the run second.

Roy's not a bad player, he's just terribly expensive for what he's good at.

His level of play also has eroded. He used to be adequate in coverage, now he is a liability. He used to be a consistent devastating hitter, now he flares occassionally. He also has become a worse tackler. Once upon a time when he was able to play close to the line he would nail a running back in his tracks or pummel a quarterback. Again those days are gone and the precipitous drop on quality play started 2 years ago when ironically he was awarded an extended contract with a hefty increase in pay.

Then there is his horse collar fetish which now has earned him a suspension. What irks me about Roy the most is his short term attitude and comments about football. He is on record stating that he will not be long for the game of football and he rarely makes an effort to defensively study or prepare for an upcoming devotion.

Roy is still a good safety despite the let up. But most certainly he has gone off the heralded path that is commensurate of a No. 8 pick in the first round. What a disappointment for the talent he has and to think he is willingly undermining himself while not playing up to the assurances he gave the team and owner when he was so handsomely rewarded.

 

[khiladi]

He is bulkier than his college and rookie seasons. His legs and hips got too big.

 

[theogt]

His level of play also has eroded. He used to be adequate in coverage, now he is a liability. He used to be a consistent devastating hitter, now he flares occassionally. He also has become a worse tackler. Once upon a time when he was able to play close to the line he would nail a running back in his tracks or pummel a quarterback. Again those days are gone and the precipitous drop on quality play started 2 years ago when ironically he was awarded an extended contract with a hefty increase in pay.

I disagree. I think he's a better tackler this year than in years past. He's also been better in coverage, but that's likely the result of him not in deep coverage consistently this year.

As for the big hits, it's a good thing he doesn't do that anymore. It's resulted in him becoming a better tackler and lowered his chances for injury.

 

[junk]

I just don't think he is the superstar that is above criticism that some like to make him out to be.

He is a liability in certain aspects of the game and his game isn't getting any better.

I expected he'd build on the success he saw early in his career and instead he has dramatically fallen off.

I also don't think he is a "beast" in the run game. He has some pretty poor tackling habits. Another area where his game has declined since earlier in his career. This should be a guy in his prime playing his best football.

 

[CowboyChris]

i think roy williams biggest problem is that he doesnt look at the QB while in pass coverage, usually he plays his zone, and when the ball is thrown he realizes it too late, and has to scramble to try and get into position.

 

[bbgun]

http://img155.*************/img155/8999/img2416za9.jpg

 

[NoLuv4Jerry]

here it is in a nutshell...the NFL seems to be moving to a pass oriented attack...at least the ELITE teams are...which is always who you should be building your roster to defeat....the ELITE.

Parcells built this team to stop the run....with spread offenses...and the return of the TE, offensive coordinators are trying their best to go at Roy and Dallas is trying it's best to hide Roy. You cannot play defense like that. Roy as a member of the secondary should at least be able to play sound technique on TEs or RBs. But to me he cannot...and he certainly gets lost in zone coverage. I have said it before and I will say it again...in a game against someone like the Pats...I would line Roy up against Randy Moss and have him beat the heck out of him all day long...then cover the flat or take away the inside....think about it...if you are going to have someone over the top, why not have the fast guy over the top and have the slower more physical guy in someones jersey. Randy Moss should never be allowed to leave the LOS clean

 

[mwmilsted]

I'm only interested in hearing from people who believe Roy Williams isn't the answer. I'm looking for specific reasons and not "He is not very good" I'm not trying to start a flame or ask a rhetorical question.

I'm suprised people are interested in getting rid of him. Yes, I think he is overrated and his coverage skills stink but I don't think that's enough to warrant getting rid of him. He is a great tackler (minus recent incident) and occassionally makes plays in coverage. I've always thought of Williams as a solid SS. I've always known about his weaknesess but I never thought they were bad enough to warrant cutting him and risking replacing him with soeone else.

I want to hear from your side. Why do you think he is a liability to us. Again, I only want to hear from the Williams critics. This is not meant to be a thread for fighting so if you are a huge Roy Williams fan, resist the urge to argue on his behalf in this thread. I just want to hear the reasons for cutting him. Maybe, there is something I'm not seeing

Let him go! The reasons are many. This is the first year of watching
Cowboy games that I've had a chance to see RW in action, other than a few interceptions he ran back for a score in previous highlights.

This year the videos have shown him out-of-position many times when the receiver (in his field area) scores.

Although he doesn't have great pass coverage skills (no surprise), this year he isn't producing much in the way of tackling the running back. It was glaringly obvious that the Eagles targeted him in their running and passing game and it was easy to see him miss the tackle.

Most of all, there is no excuse for him to still be making horse-collar tackles after 3 years after the NFL changed the rule allowing it.

 

[Clove]

Earlier on in his career, he was knocking receivers out and was actually fined and critisized for it. In the pro-bowl when he nearly killed a Bronco's receiver, he was critisized.

Then the Washington fiasco happened when his name was thrown in the pot for helping to give up 2 last minute TDs to Santana Moss.

For some reason, he has lost his beast-manship. No way you can forget how to play, I just don't believe that. A combination of him getting his mula, league fining him, media blasting him, he can't stay in shape anymore, he just needs a wake up call.

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

I theorize that Roy suffers from a rare disease known as eliphantitis. This hindrance has caused him to alter his formerly reckless style of play for fear of a career threatening injury.

 

[MapleLeaf]

I'd agree with everything but the tackling. I think he's a fine tackler for a guy his size. According to Wade he's already at 100+ this year, and that's with a damn good front seven.

...speaks highly of his recognition skills and his ability to break on the ball carrier.

My comment on being prone to poor form tackling is seeing twice this year his attempt to stop the carrier with his shoulder as opposed to wrapping his arms around the player.

As players age physical skills will erode. Maybe Roy still thinks he can deliver the knock out blow, but using your arms to stop a player as a habit isn't a bad thing.

I feel bad for the guy because he really doesn't seem the pariah that the media and some fans portray him to be.

His greatest fault is that he not a good range covering safety that fits into the cover two. It doesn't mean he can't play.

It's really Jerry's fault and not Roy's that he is being paid the salary he is. For Wade to go forward with Roy he really needs to find unique ways to take advantage of what he does best.

If this season's talk was all about Garrett tailoring the offence to get T.O. involved, I'm sure Stewart could do the same.

I just don't know why anyone would put Roy back in a Tampa 2 scheme?

 

[cowboyed]

...speaks highly of his recognition skills and his ability to break on the ball carrier.

My comment on being prone to poor form tackling is seeing twice this year his attempt to stop the carrier with his shoulder as opposed to wrapping his arms around the player.

As players age physical skills will erode. Maybe Roy still thinks he can deliver the knock out blow, but using your arms to stop a player as a habit isn't a bad thing.

I feel bad for the guy because he really doesn't seem the pariah that the media and some fans portray him to be.

His greatest fault is that he not a good range covering safety that fits into the cover two. It doesn't mean he can't play.

It's really Jerry's fault and not Roy's that he is being paid the salary he is. For Wade to go forward with Roy he really needs to find unique ways to take advantage of what he does best.

If this season's talk was all about Garrett tailoring the offence to get T.O. involved, I'm sure Stewart could do the same.

I just don't know why anyone would put Roy back in a Tampa 2 scheme?

Roy Williams level of performance has been deteriorating in his prime though. Unlike Darren Woodson Roy has really not been that injured in his career. You are correct Jerry Jones provided him the increased extended contract. But that involved negotiation with Roy and his agent and assurances that he would continue to be committed to the game, the sport and perform at a high level.

I think knowledgeable fans would have more empathy or understanding with Roy if he made the extra effort to prepare for an opponent or improve in aspects of his game.

Roy was drafted and compensated as a premier player and lived up to that billing for about 3 years and then started going south. To me it is a matter of employee ethics about remaining fully committed, continuing your job education and giving it your best as you should appreciate the extraordinary compensation particularly working for one of the elite franchises in the NFL.

 

[JPM]

I'm trying to figure out how fans know that Roy isn't committed to the game, or isn't working hard, or working out. Are they there to see him missing meetings, falling asleep during a meeting (if he even attends them), missing film session, not working out. That like saying I'm slacking off from work and not committed to my job cause I make a post on this site.

Last night I saw Troy Polamalu miss a tackle on Stephen Jackson. Does that mean Troy isn't committed and doesn't care about football ?

 

[burmafrd]

I think the fines and rule changes have made Roy less aggressive and hesitant about sticking it to guys like he did his first few seasons. AND honestly I do not see how it can change. You are not ALLOWED to hit and be as aggressive now as 5 years ago.

 

[InmanRoshi]

I was completely on board with RW when we drafted him, even though conventional wisdom at the time was you don't spend a Top 10 pick on a safety. My reasoning is that you do when it's a player like Roy Williams, because I watched him in the Big XII week in and week out be one of the most versatile players in college. He was so instinctual, sudden and versatile that Stoops could use him any number of ways to take out the opponents biggest weapon. When OU was going up against UT, Stoops had RW play deep coverage to protect against the deep threat of (the Longhorns) Row Williams. When OU played Texas Tech, Stoops isolated RW on RB Taureen Henderson who was a huge threat catching balls out of the backfield. When OU played an option run based team like KSU or Texas A&M Roy played in the box to nullfiy the run. That's essentially what Roy was ... a nullifier. He took your best weapon and singlehandedly erased it from the game.

That's a player that went away long ago. Per Mick, when he was drafted the scouts said what sets apart Roy from the others was his "suddeness". He would come out nowhere on your picture screen and made an impact play. There's no suddenness now. When you watch Ryan Grant blow right by him as though he's standing still ... when you watch a gimpy Donovan McNabb pull away from him ... it's just sad to watch. It's not that he just doesn't have the top end speed, which was always questionable, he's slow to initially react as well. It looks like he's playing with concrete shoes on. Now he's become a matchup nightmare for us. We have to find ways to hide him. To scheme around him. It puts extra strain on the coaches and other players around him, and sadly Roy doesn't bring enough leadership intangibles to balance it. The only reason he'll be on the team next year is because his cap hit makes it prohibitive to release him.

 

[burmafrd]

Biggest salary cap mistake Jerrah has made the last 5 years.

 

[Chief]

I was completely on board with RW when we drafted him, even though conventional wisdom at the time was you don't spend a Top 10 pick on a safety. My reasoning is that you do when it's a player like Roy Williams, because I watched him in the Big XII week in and week out be one of the most versatile players in college. He was so instinctual, sudden and versatile that Stoops could use him any number of ways to take out the opponents biggest weapon. When OU was going up against UT, Stoops had RW play deep coverage to protect against the deep threat of (the Longhorns) Row Williams. When OU played Texas Tech, Stoops isolated RW on RB Taureen Henderson who was a huge threat catching balls out of the backfield. When OU played an option run based team like KSU or Texas A&M Roy played in the box to nullfiy the run. That's essentially what Roy was ... a nullifier. He took your best weapon and singlehandedly erased it from the game.

That's a player that went away long ago. Per Mick, when he was drafted the scouts said what sets apart Roy from the others was his "suddeness". He would come out nowhere on your picture screen and made an impact play. There's no suddenness now. When you watch Ryan Grant blow right by him as though he's standing still ... when you watch a gimpy Donovan McNabb pull away from him ... it's just sad to watch. Now he's become a matchup nightmare for us. We have to find ways to hide him. To scheme around him. It puts extra strain on the other players around him. The only reason he'll be on the team next year is because his cap hit makes it prohibitive to release him.

My thoughts exactly, and I was fully on board with his selection in the top 10.

I saw him change games in the Big 12, like the Tech game you mentioned.

The Cowboys scout who was in charge of the Big 12 at the time -- Jim Hess -- told me in 2002 that "Roy's camera takes pictures faster than anyone elses," meaning that he could see things before they happen, the instincts that you can't teach.

It seems to be all gone now, though.

Like David said in the post above, I think Roy is a good guy who isn't the evil villain that Jen-Jen and others make him out to be. I've said this before, but I just don't think football is that important to him anymore. Simple as that.

 

[smarta5150]

will this ever end?

I guess no.

I would even be willing to bet that if (and I know its not gonna happen) he was on another team next year there would still be several threads popping up about him.

Cowboy or not Roy will be talked about here for years.

Thats all I'm saying.

 

[wileedog]

I was completely on board with RW when we drafted him, even though conventional wisdom at the time was you don't spend a Top 10 pick on a safety. My reasoning is that you do when it's a player like Roy Williams, because I watched him in the Big XII week in and week out be one of the most versatile players in college. He was so instinctual, sudden and versatile that Stoops could use him any number of ways to take out the opponents biggest weapon. When OU was going up against UT, Stoops had RW play deep coverage to protect against the deep threat of (the Longhorns) Row Williams. When OU played Texas Tech, Stoops isolated RW on RB Taureen Henderson who was a huge threat catching balls out of the backfield. When OU played an option run based team like KSU or Texas A&M Roy played in the box to nullfiy the run. That's essentially what Roy was ... a nullifier. He took your best weapon and singlehandedly erased it from the game.

That's a player that went away long ago. Per Mick, when he was drafted the scouts said what sets apart Roy from the others was his "suddeness". He would come out nowhere on your picture screen and made an impact play. There's no suddenness now. When you watch Ryan Grant blow right by him as though he's standing still ... when you watch a gimpy Donovan McNabb pull away from him ... it's just sad to watch. It's not that he just doesn't have the top end speed, which was always questionable, he's slow to initially react as well. It looks like he's playing with concrete shoes on. Now he's become a matchup nightmare for us. We have to find ways to hide him. To scheme around him. It puts extra strain on the coaches and other players around him, and sadly Roy doesn't bring enough leadership intangibles to balance it. The only reason he'll be on the team next year is because his cap hit makes it prohibitive to release him.

Can't put it any better than that.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

Juding from some of the posts in this thread, you can add decrepitude and senility to Roy's long list of foibles.