What Trevon Diggs reminds us again about drafting

[CowboyRoy]

Man what are you even talking about? You're moving goal posts. Nobody is commenting about re-signing him. Stay on topic. You said he lacked "competitiveness and toughness". This thread is about discussing DRAFTING. Has nothing to do about who you re-sign man pay attention damn......

LOL...........you just said we would be better with Jones. How are you going to do that without resigning him? DUH!!!

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

LOL...........you just said we would be better with Jones. How are you going to do that without resigning him? DUH!!!

It was a hypothetical. The whole argument you made was re-signing these type of guys are bad. You didn't say because of money you said because he lacked competitive spirit and toughness.....right? So if all things are the same you are telling me if Anthony Brown and Byron Jones got paid the same that we would be worse because he doesn't have "toughness"? Please. If you think that then go log off and take a nap.

 

[CowboyRoy]

It was a hypothetical. The whole argument you made was re-signing these type of guys are bad. You didn't say because of money you said because he lacked competitive spirit and toughness.....right? So if all things are the same you are telling me if Anthony Brown and Byron Jones got paid the same that we would be worse because he doesn't have "toughness"? Please. If you think that then go log off and take a nap.

NO, the point was you dont resign those type of guys. Jones was a shining example of EVERYTHING that was wrong with the old Cowboys defense. NO play makers. Jones was the poster child for that.

"Duh the Cowboys would be better with Deion Sanders than Brown" DUH!!!!

See, I can say something completely useless too.

 

[Bobhaze]

we arent going to hes long gone..BJ left because he was overrated and now overpaid. We have too many of those to fit another..LOL
he good not great,,

not a bad pick but for sure made the right decision to let him walk..yup..Jerry gets lucky every now and then,.

Byron Jones was neither overrated nor overpaid. He got market value for a good starting NFL corner. You can’t judge players only by how much they get paid. NFL pay scales are nothing like the real world.

 

[Zekeats]

I remember him for this

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

NO, the point was you dont resign those type of guys. Jones was a shining example of EVERYTHING that was wrong with the old Cowboys defense. NO play makers. Jones was the poster child for that.

"Duh the Cowboys would be better with Deion Sanders than Brown" DUH!!!!

See, I can say something completely useless too.

 

[Bobhaze]

NO, the point was you dont resign those type of guys. Jones was a shining example of EVERYTHING that was wrong with the old Cowboys defense. NO play makers. Jones was the poster child for that.

"Duh the Cowboys would be better with Deion Sanders than Brown" DUH!!!!

See, I can say something completely useless too.

I didn’t intend to make this a Byron Jones critique. Both Jones and Diggs are good. It’s not an all or nothing thing. My point was when drafting, always put football skills ahead of combine skills. That wasn’t intended to say Byron Jones was no good. He was and is a good player. Do I think Diggs is better? Yes. But again that doesn’t mean Jones sucks.

 

[charron]

Being athletic doesn't mean you can play this game. Teams need to spend less time watching the combine and more time watching players film and actually getting to know players.

 

[Clove]

With the overall 27th pick in the first round of the 2015 draft, the Cowboys drafted defensive back Byron Jones. He was considered an “athletic freak” from his combine performance including his 4.43 speed and his world record for standing broad-jump with a leap of 12-feet, 3-inches. Remember the video of Jones jumping over a car? He’s athleticism was off the charts.

Five years later, after not re-signing Byron Jones to a second contract and losing him to the Dolphins in Free agency, we drafted Trevon Diggs with the 51st pick in the draft in the second round. He did not have the “measurables” that Byron Jones had in the combine.

But who is a better football player- Diggs or Jones? Let’s look at the comparisons:

• Jones has 4 career INTs in 98 games, and is in his 7th NFL seasons.
  
• Diggs has 9 INTs in 17 games in his 2nd year (he missed 4 games last yr with a foot injury)
• Jones was a combine “freak” who was pretty good at football.
• Diggs is an outstanding football player- first.

Reminder for future drafts: Draft great football players who may also have great measureables. Not the other way around.

Bob, how old are you because you seem wise? Jerry Rice (4.6 speed) "Weak armed" Joe Montana, the slow Tom Brady, is a small example of athletes with average physical traits that were considered the GOAT. We as fans , coaches, scouts, etc... Need not measure athletes by physical attributes, but rather if they have the "It" factor and If they are intelligent.

Michael Jordan wasn't only the most gifted athlete, but he was the smartest athlete on the court and the player most obsessed with winning. This is what I would look for in a scout if you're looking for star players. This is why I think Parsons' has HOF written all over him. The guy isn't very big and plows through 600lbs (two offensive linemen) of men. That's called special.

 

[elcowboi]

Diggs is playing like he should have been the first defensive drafted. It's a game of chance

 

[ConstantReboot]

actually hes correct hes using the eye test example vs real football iq in drafts. MO had all the talent in the world just got hurt a lot, and playing while hurt and stated getting burned hurt his confidence. Like some qb who got sacked too much early and never recovered ie Carr..

truly Mo was also better DB then BJ sorry man BJ was athletic and could cover but lacked real football instincts..

Instincts was this draft Parsons, Gholston, Osa, cox, etc etc all seem to not just be athletic but just have that feel for the game..we have been lacking that Jsmith is an example freakish athletic build got away wit it in college had the injury but now that he needed to depend on reading and reacting quicker instead of using his speed and athleticism, he was exposed..

no matter how slow Diggs will get with age his instincts will carry him , his student of the game pure football drive is why hes so good..he is seeing routes as the ball is snapped ..BJ was never that ...

Mo wasn't really that talented. He was a 3rd round talent at best. It's Jerry and his defunct marketing team proclaiming Mo Claiborne as the next coming of Deion. No ways.

Mo ran a 4.5 in the combine. His agility was that of a 3rd rounder. He had a good first step and long hands which made it hard for the receivers to get off cleanly from the LOS. But we would have needed a strong passrush to make use of him effectly.

He certainly wasn't worth the 6th pick in the draft. If we would have stayed our course we would have gotten Michael Brockers and Bobby Wagner.

 

[Bobhaze]

Bob, how old are you because you seem wise? Jerry Rice (4.6 speed) "Weak armed" Joe Montana, the slow Tom Brady, is a small example of athletes with average physical traits that were considered the GOAT. We as fans , coaches, scouts, etc... Need not measure athletes by physical attributes, but rather if they have the "It" factor and If they are intelligent.

Michael Jordan wasn't only the most gifted athlete, but he was the smartest athlete on the court and the player most obsessed with winning. This is what I would look for in a scout if you're looking for star players. This is why I think Parsons' has HOF written all over him. The guy isn't very big and plows through 600lbs (two offensive linemen) of men. That's called special.

Well, I’m 63 and look and feel it, lol, but thanks for the question. You make several good points using the examples of Rice, Montana, and Jordan…I also thought of Larry Bird who was slow, couldn’t jump but had off the charts basketball IQ coupled with great shooting and passing ability. And like the guys you mentioned, wanted to win more than anything.

I would add some other Cowboys players that were great but didn’t have all the measureables. Bob Lily was not a overly muscular guy but he was incredibly quick and powerful. Drew Pearson was not fast but was always open and huge in the clutch. I like looking at Dak’s scouting report from 2016 because there are so many things that were overlooked or underrated in him. He doesn’t have a canon for an arm but he has great judgement about ball placement- as in rarely throws picks. His toughness, leadership and upside was not recognizable at the combine.

Drafting is hard. It’s why not very many football people are great at it. But over the years I believe too many scouts have overrated the combine skills (which are good to have) and underrated whether or not a player was just a good football player with football IQ.

 

[Clove]

Well, I’m 63 and look and feel it, lol, but thanks for the question. You make several good points using the examples of Rice, Montana, and Jordan…I also thought of Larry Bird who was slow, couldn’t jump but had off the charts basketball IQ coupled with great shooting and passing ability. And like the guys you mentioned, wanted to win more than anything.

I would add some other Cowboys players that were great but didn’t have all the measureables. Bob Lily was not a overly muscular guy but he was incredibly quick and powerful. Drew Pearson was not fast but was always open and huge in the clutch. I like looking at Dak’s scouting report from 2016 because there are so many things that were overlooked or underrated in him. He doesn’t have a canon for an arm but he has great judgement about ball placement- as in rarely throws picks. His toughness, leadership and upside was not recognizable at the combine.

Drafting is hard. It’s why not very many football people are great at it. But over the years I believe too many scouts have overrated the combine skills (which are good to have) and underrated whether or not a player was just a good football player with football IQ.

I love listening and learning from older wise people so thank you. I'm 51 myself, and I originally had Bird amongst a ton of others written out but thought it was a tad too much so I sort of slimmed my list down so to speak. lol

This is actually a great debate, and are examples all over the world.

 

[kskboys]

Yeah but Byron Jones was a great player for us lol. He contribute despite poor coaching. Byron Jones is not the guy to make a example out of....maybe Mo Claiborne?

Great? Not even. More like viable.

 

[kskboys]

Let's be a bit fair here. The Cowboys dicked around for a few years trying to make Jones a S. If they had made him a CB right from the start, he likely would have had a pretty good 5 year run and worth that pick.

Diggs is better but there was nothing wrong with taking Jones where we did.

Disagree. Jones was a project player, a combine baby. Taking him in the first was taking a huge chance. This type of drafting way too often does not work out.

 

[john van brocklin]

With the overall 27th pick in the first round of the 2015 draft, the Cowboys drafted defensive back Byron Jones. He was considered an “athletic freak” from his combine performance including his 4.43 speed and his world record for standing broad-jump with a leap of 12-feet, 3-inches. Remember the video of Jones jumping over a car? He’s athleticism was off the charts.

Five years later, after not re-signing Byron Jones to a second contract and losing him to the Dolphins in Free agency, we drafted Trevon Diggs with the 51st pick in the draft in the second round. He did not have the “measurables” that Byron Jones had in the combine.

But who is a better football player- Diggs or Jones? Let’s look at the comparisons:

• Jones has 4 career INTs in 98 games, and is in his 7th NFL seasons.
  
• Diggs has 9 INTs in 17 games in his 2nd year (he missed 4 games last yr with a foot injury)
• Jones was a combine “freak” who was pretty good at football.
• Diggs is an outstanding football player- first.

Reminder for future drafts: Draft great football players who may also have great measureables. Not the other way around.

Drafting ain't an exact science for sure

 

[blueblood70]

Byron Jones was neither overrated nor overpaid. He got market value for a good starting NFL corner. You can’t judge players only by how much they get paid. NFL pay scales are nothing like the real world.

he gone im out.,.just like BJ who is what i thought he was , overpaid underperforming nfl cb

want one thats underpaid and overperforming

one guess

7...better then BJ ever was and that was only like 4 games as rookie..its all i needed to see that we made the correct choice..BJ is worth 6mil IDC care about market..

not huge difference between Brown, lewis and BJ , accept that Lewis and browns together are cheaper then one BJ...that was the choice the FO made..

want our backend at the cost we have invested or the Dolphins..hmm easy answer

heck lets see how much does

Brown
Lewis
Diggs
Hooker
Kearse
Kazee
Wilson

I have zero idea what they make but have suspicion is its bargain for all that depth and production

all together yearly salary this year is what please go add it up

now add up BJ and Xavier only

wonder whos got the bargain and the better backend options starters and depth..

so yes salary does matter when you comp it to those we replaced them with and how they are performing..

BJ solid nfl cb sure starter sure but 3 on the field at most moments they all aren't market guys and IMHO BJ was less then market guy and let the dolphins keep that..we just got rid of another. JS

 

[Aftershock]

With the overall 27th pick in the first round of the 2015 draft, the Cowboys drafted defensive back Byron Jones. He was considered an “athletic freak” from his combine performance including his 4.43 speed and his world record for standing broad-jump with a leap of 12-feet, 3-inches. Remember the video of Jones jumping over a car? He’s athleticism was off the charts.

Five years later, after not re-signing Byron Jones to a second contract and losing him to the Dolphins in Free agency, we drafted Trevon Diggs with the 51st pick in the draft in the second round. He did not have the “measurables” that Byron Jones had in the combine.

But who is a better football player- Diggs or Jones? Let’s look at the comparisons:

• Jones has 4 career INTs in 98 games, and is in his 7th NFL seasons.
  
• Diggs has 9 INTs in 17 games in his 2nd year (he missed 4 games last yr with a foot injury)
• Jones was a combine “freak” who was pretty good at football.
• Diggs is an outstanding football player- first.

Reminder for future drafts: Draft great football players who may also have great measureables. Not the other way around.

Judging CB performance purely on INT's is wrong.

 

[McKDaddy]

Reminder for future drafts: Draft great football players who may also have great measureables. Not the other way around.

can you post this again in March \ April?

 

[jnday]

This has nothing to do about whether or not we should let him walk lol. We all know we should've let him walk...though if all they were going to do was spend that money on Collins, Jaylon and Lawrence....probably would've rather kept Byron knowing what I know now. Hindsight is 20/20 though.

There is no doubt that keeping Jones would have been better than keeping Jaylon. Collins looked like a good signing , but his stock has took a massive hit these last two years. DLaw is good player that was resigned to an elite contract. He is definitely overpaid considering his time missed due to injuries. The injuries wouldn’t have been so bad if would have had the surgeries early in the offseason instead of waiting until the recovery caused him to miss regular season games. His infamous holdout was one of the most selfish tactics that I have ever seen in contract negotiations. I don’t think I can ever forgive him for that.