What Would Happen If Jason Garrett Had Not Been Figured Out?

[dbair1967]

David, one of these days you'll figure out how the quote system works.

Nah, its hopeless.

 

[Beast_from_East]

I think it is more a question of if Wade has been figured out or not. Our defense is ranked 30th and there are only 32 teams.

 

[jay cee]

Absolutely agree with that. But watching your QB make three boneheaded throws/decisions isnt an example of that. This isnt high school football where you can simply give up on the pass and run the ball every down to win.

Romo's one of the best QB's in the league, if he gets to the point where we have to treat him like Quincy Carter, what good is he?

See you keep trying to boil it down to running the ball on every down as a way to refute our point of view, when no one even remotely suggested that.

We only said that the Cowboys should have run the ball more than they did in that game.

 

[dbair1967]

See you keep trying to boil it down to running the ball on every down as a way to refute our point of view, when no one even remotely suggested that.

We only said that the Cowboys should have run the ball more than they did in that game.

They ran it 50/50 overall and it was 60/40 in the 2nd half. Thats running it alot.

If Romo were a poor QB then maybe I could see a little of this, but he isnt. He's a huge weapon and you have to take advantage of it. Everybody knew going in the Giants were missing 2 of their top 3 CB's and both safeties were playing hurt, any offensive coordinator with half a brain is gonna go after it. Romo just played a bad game, period.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

They ran it 50/50 overall and it was 60/40 in the 2nd half. Thats running it alot.

If Romo were a poor QB then maybe I could see a little of this, but he isnt. He's a huge weapon and you have to take advantage of it. Everybody knew going in the Giants were missing 2 of their top 3 CB's and both safeties were playing hurt, any offensive coordinator with half a brain is gonna go after it. Romo just played a bad game, period.

Let's look at it the other way David. If Garrett had quit calling for passes in the 2nd half and Romo did not attempt any long passes– And the Cowboys still lost...

Well, we'd be hearing the same stuff that was said after the Seahawk playoff loss– "Why didn't the Cowboys test the Giant secondary more?"

 

[jay cee]

They ran it 50/50 overall and it was 60/40 in the 2nd half. Thats running it alot.

If Romo were a poor QB then maybe I could see a little of this, but he isnt. He's a huge weapon and you have to take advantage of it. Everybody knew going in the Giants were missing 2 of their top 3 CB's and both safeties were playing hurt, any offensive coordinator with half a brain is gonna go after it. Romo just played a bad game, period.

Like I said in another thread, different people just have different philosophies. I don't think you have to have a poor QB, to have a run first philosophy.

I have never checked out their stats, but I see the Giants as a run first offense. I see the Cowboys of the 90's as run first also.

I know they threw the ball plenty, but it seemed that they were each more smash mouth teams that used their running games to open up the pass.

And both of those teams had good (Manning) to great (Aikman) QB's.

Then if you look at the Giants of the 80's they won two superbowls with a run first philosophy. Simms was a good qb and Hostetler was only a solid backup.

So IMO, you are not saying that you don't have faith in your QB by having a run first philosophy, because in any offense your QB has to make plays to really be a great team.

 

[CF74]

Absolutely agree with that. But watching your QB make three boneheaded throws/decisions isnt an example of that. This isnt high school football where you can simply give up on the pass and run the ball every down to win.

Romo's one of the best QB's in the league, if he gets to the point where we have to treat him like Quincy Carter, what good is he?

Nobody is saying to give up on the pass, just reduce attempts. As far as being like Quimphy, Romo is piling up the turnover stats, he needs to be reigned in.

Let's look at it the other way David. If Garrett had quit calling for passes in the 2nd half and Romo did not attempt any long passes– And the Cowboys still lost...

Well, we'd be hearing the same stuff that was said after the Seahawk playoff loss– "Why didn't the Cowboys test the Giant secondary more?"

It's all about timing. You don't go long when the team you are against is playing the pass, you run the ball and vice versa. We should have kept pounding the ball till they stacked the box, till they sold out to stop the run. Then at that point you hit em deep.

 

[jay cee]

Let's look at it the other way David. If Garrett had quit calling for passes in the 2nd half and Romo did not attempt any long passes– And the Cowboys still lost...

Well, we'd be hearing the same stuff that was said after the Seahawk playoff loss– "Why didn't the Cowboys test the Giant secondary more?"

You would most certainly hear it from someone, that happens after every loss.

I can guarantee, you would not hear it from me. I say a team has to have an identity, and it should be around their strength.

IMO, with this o-line and these rb's, this teams strength should be the running game. That's not saying that Romo is a poor QB.

I think the 90's Cowboys strenghth was the running game. And that was with a HOF QB.

That's why they were able to win with 2nd or 3rd string qb's when Aikman was out with injuries.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Nobody is saying to give up on the pass, just reduce attempts. As far as being like Quimphy, Romo is piling up the turnover stats, he needs to be reigned in.



It's all about timing. You don't go long when the team you are against is playing the pass, you run the ball and vice versa. We should have kept pounding the ball till they stacked the box, till they sold out to stop the run. Then at that point you hit em deep.

If I recall, there were two other guys out in the pattern. It was the QB's choice on which receiver he would go too. The read normally isn't difficult. If the safety is playing deep, then the QB goes somewhere else with the ball vis-a-vis it's the QB's choice.

60% of the call in the second half were runs– That's a large percentage.

 

[theogt]

If I recall, there were two other guys out in the pattern. It was the QB's choice on which receiver he would go too. The read normally isn't difficult. If the safety is playing deep, then the QB goes somewhere else with the ball vis-a-vis it's the QB's choice.

60% of the call in the second half were runs– That's a large percentage.

The way Romo immediately stared down Hurd and the way Hurd and Crayton's routes are designed makes me think it was a designed long play to Hurd from the get go. Which is a stupid play call there. But yes, both Romo and Garrett are at blame and it's kinda silly to argue which one is more to blame.

 

[jay cee]

Nobody is saying to give up on the pass, just reduce attempts. As far as being like Quimphy, Romo is piling up the turnover stats, he needs to be reigned in.

Great point, and IMO, your next statement would go a long way towards helping with that problem.

It's all about timing. You don't go long when the team you are against is playing the pass, you run the ball and vice versa. We should have kept pounding the ball till they stacked the box, till they sold out to stop the run. Then at that point you hit em deep.

 

[Cochese]

Ginger Mike Martz is a clown, I dont care what any numbers say.

 

[Bluefin]

60% of the call in the second half were runs– That's a large percentage.

It wasn't large enough.

The Giants were getting pulverized on the ground, there was no need to call very many passes.

Jason Garrett is simply incapable of taking the game out of Tony Romo's hands.

The Giants knew it and played accordingly.

 

[dbair1967]

Let's look at it the other way David. If Garrett had quit calling for passes in the 2nd half and Romo did not attempt any long passes– And the Cowboys still lost...

Well, we'd be hearing the same stuff that was said after the Seahawk playoff loss– "Why didn't the Cowboys test the Giant secondary more?"

No doubt about it. In fact we had already started hearing complaining in PRESEASON games.

Garrett cant win regardless of what happens with some of these people. they dont like him, fine. He's a good young coach IMO. The kind that if he were somewhere else, they'd be saying "why cant we hire guys like this!!!!!"

 

[dbair1967]

Nobody is saying to give up on the pass, just reduce attempts. As far as being like Quimphy, Romo is piling up the turnover stats, he needs to be reigned in.

Reduce them to what? And what good does that do? What you people want is to reduce any chance of Romo turning the ball over and pin that on the coordinator. So what if he reduces attempts to an unheard 15-20 a game, Romo is still going to be Romo. He threw picks on short passes and a long pass the other day. All three of them were bad plays by the QB. At some point the QB has to LEARN to quit doig it.

It's all about timing. You don't go long when the team you are against is playing the pass, you run the ball and vice versa. We should have kept pounding the ball till they stacked the box, till they sold out to stop the run. Then at that point you hit em deep.

Thats great, so what is the excuse for the other two picks?

 

[dbair1967]

The way Romo immediately stared down Hurd and the way Hurd and Crayton's routes are designed makes me think it was a designed long play to Hurd from the get go. Which is a stupid play call there. But yes, both Romo and Garrett are at blame and it's kinda silly to argue which one is more to blame.

Still doesnt excuse the QB for throwing it into coverage. There were other receivers in the pattern. Even if there were not any, Romo should have either thrown it away or run.

But if it makes you feel better to keep saying it, have at it.

 

[Cochese]

Still doesnt excuse the QB for throwing it into coverage. There were other receivers in the pattern. Even if there were not any, Romo should have either thrown it away or run.

But if it makes you feel better to keep saying it, have at it.

Your defense of the ginger is commendable, is anything ever his fault in your eyes?

This is reaching norv turner levels from you.

 

[dbair1967]

Your defense of the ginger is commendable, is anything ever his fault in your eyes?

This is reaching norv turner levels from you.

Why should I feel bad about the offensive coach when 1) they've scored 65 offensive pts in two weeks 2) run up well over 800 yds in two weeks 2) run the ball much better than at almost any point the last 3 or 4 seeasons or more 4) given up 1 sack in two weeks 5) have committed only 1 or 2 offensive penalties in two games

As for the Norv Turner thing, he's done more in SD than either of our last two head coaches here hasnt he?

 

[CF74]

Reduce them to what? And what good does that do? What you people want is to reduce any chance of Romo turning the ball over and pin that on the coordinator. So what if he reduces attempts to an unheard 15-20 a game, Romo is still going to be Romo. He threw picks on short passes and a long pass the other day. All three of them were bad plays by the QB. At some point the QB has to LEARN to quit doig it.




Thats great, so what is the excuse for the other two picks?

You people? Are we a category now?? We are fans trying to diagnose this chronic losing against solid opponents. I don't hate Garrett as you purport. I just don't comprehend how we can't spread the blame, how one guy gets a pass. Romo is a liability, Garrett needs to reign him in. How does that equate to hate? This is my team, this is one of my passions. There are no excuses here man, this team loses big games and it starts at the top.

Look there's no magic number here. 50/50, 60/40, or 30/70. Whatever it takes just win. I don't care whose feelings get hurt. Right now even Jimmy Johnson is saying the same thing we are. Until Romo can settle down and control his propensity for error in big games, we need to reduce his passing attempts. Numbers are for nerds, there are no numbers. And stats are for losers like Dan Marino... (That was just said for effect.):laugh2:

 

[Idgit]

It's nuts that you guys are still trying to tie that game to Garrett. That decision and that bad throw were on Tony Romo.

I don't understand this bizarre fixation for blaming the wrong people for bad decisions all the time. It's not like you won't have an opportunity to pile on JG for a legitimate poor decision at some time this season. Just be patient.

This week was the week you were all supposed to legitimately pile on our QB. If we're going to overreact and act like a bunch of babies about things, can't we at least try to stick to actual talking points?