What would it take for you to trade Roy Williams?

[BigDFan5]

What's the point? The issue is Roy's approximate trade value, not whether he deserves to go to Hawaii every year.

Your exact words were

He's primarily a run-stuffer who doesn't get picks or force many turnovers

I would like to compare him to other SS who in your opinion is the best SS in the NFL

 

[lane]

i would never even consider trading a bad *** old school player like roy.

 

[jem88]

There are a ton of players I would trade Roy straight up for. He's a very good player, but I don't view him as a future Hall of Famer at this point. I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again, but he's not great enough to be untouchable in my mind. Heck, in my view, he's maybe the 4th best player on our defense right now and that is even close.

1. Newman - no contest
2. Ware - Insane ability that will only get better as he should no longer have to think about what he's doing as much and just play.
3. James - was great last season.
4. Roy Williams - Very good player.

I think there is a great chance that Henry could bounce back and be the player he was before he got injured. If he does, I put him above Roy. It is also possible for Canty and Spears to pass up Roy on my list. Simply put, Roy fits in, but he's not the straw that stirs the drink.

David Harrell - Pokes
dwh

Let's not get carried aware here. I think some people do over-rate Williams (ex. those who wouldn't trade him for anybody), but putting James ahead of Williams? That's a bit much, at least for now. For me, the only guy on our defense who is untouchable is Newman. Ware probably will be too, but he needs to show continued progress (which I'm confident he will do.)

 

[dbair1967]

It's not unprecedented. Haley was traded at the height of his powers in '92. Of course, he was a pain in the *** in Frisco, which hastened his exit. Roy has no such reputation. Frankly, I don't think there's that much interest in Roy out there. He's primarily a run-stuffer who doesn't get picks or force many turnovers. Yes, he hits big, but usually after the catch has been made on him.

uh, you realize that in 4yrs Reed has forced a total of 26 turnovers and Williams has forced 20 right? if Roy "doesnt force many turnovers" then does that mean reed doesnt as well?

also, RW has forced a t least a couple of fumbles via special teams...not sure if those are tallied on a players defensive stats or not

and his big hits often result in a WR dropping a ball...its happened alot

David

 

[koolaid]

i wouldnt trade roy for anything short of 2 first rounders and a decent SS replacement

 

[demdcowboys#1]

nothing......................NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[curboys]

Let's just say I am curious. I like Roy as a player, but I wouldn't consider him untouchable. I tend to think the Cowboys faithful might overrate him a bit.

What would it take for you to trade him? I'd like some examples. Picks, players, whatever.

Or do you consider it too silly to even consider?

Junk, I like your thinking....

I for one have felt that Williams is overrated !! When we drafted him with the 8th pick in the first round of the 2002 (2003) draft there were comparisons to the 49ers Ronnie Lott. Well he's no Ronnie Lott.

If we were to trade him I'd prefer to get a top ten pick for him. A.J. Hawk would be nice.

 

[Big Country]

This theme could be different in lots of ways while discussing the possibilities of trading Roy W. at a certain time in his NFL career... Last year maybe... This year no. The development of the new 3-4 defense can go a long way to proving that theme true.

Remember that offensive coordinators will game plan for dynamic, game changing players... If the OC knows that he will be game planning for a player like Roy W. then he's gonna know where he is on every play and know how to use the strength of his offenses to negate that players strength...

Coordinators know now that Roy W. in a second or third and long is going to be hell because Dallas defense will be in attack mode and the short routes to TEs and RBs need to look the hell out. Possible De-cleaters "a-la Madden." Second or third and short are easier because you can use play action pass and get Roy W. in a chase mode, which does not play to his strengths.

Now if Dallas possibly goes sack crazy this year and is a top 3 to top 5 team in QB pressures and sacks then Roy should return to monster form and lay serious wood all over the place. Let's say two guys, Ware (15 sacks) and Spears (11 sacks) go pressure crazy and become terrors in the offensive backfield, Roy's job becomes lots more manageable, the trade scenario involving Roy W. can be laughable by season's end.
:laugh2:

 

[The30YardSlant]

I bet the Ravens would too, but fortunately for us you and your astute eye for talent ("Cunningham is better than Aikman") arnt making decisions at VR...

first, Reed is a full two yrs older than RW is...

in four years Reed has an edge in passes defenses and 10 more picks total, but Williams has more tackles, more sacks, more forced fumbles and one more int return for a TD....he is an incredibly intimidating hitter and has dislodged the ball from WR's and TE's mroe times than I can remember...there's also numerous times receivers have gator armed or pulled up on pass attempts because they feared the big hit coming...

Reed's had the benefit of playing on an ultra talented defense every yr in the league, and yet last yr he was pretty average...RW has had an extreme disadvantage from having to play the past two seasons with terrible FS's next to him, he also has the disadvantage of playing for a coordinator who yr after yr has his teams rank at the bottom of the league in turnovers and sacks

you can have Ed Reed...RW is a better all around player and has more upside than Reed does

David

You are simply wrong

RW could be in any system under any coordinator and it wouldnt change the fact that Reed is far better in coverage, much faster, and has a knack for making big plays unlike any other defensive player currently in football.

And that whole "Reed is on a better, more telanted defense" thing works both ways. Considering he has Ray Lewis, Terrell Suggs, until last year Edgerton Hartwell, etc. wouldnt you expect him to have less tackles?

 

[DiscipleofTuna]

If I was offered Ed Reed and a swap of firsts with Baltimore, im all over it. Ed Reed and Ngata help Dallas win more games than Manny Lawson (for sake of argument) and Roy IMO.

 

[DiscipleofTuna]

I'd never trade him. He's one of the few untouchables (Roy, Witten, Ware and Newman) who we are building this team around. People who say Roy is overrated need to get a clue. The guy is a game changer and a play maker.

He is also a season changer too. Like this play

I get a feeling Reed and a few other safeties wouldnt have allowed that a SECOND time.

:bang2:

 

[DiscipleofTuna]

uh, you realize that in 4yrs Reed has forced a total of 26 turnovers and Williams has forced 20 right? if Roy "doesnt force many turnovers" then does that mean reed doesnt as well?

Im more concerned with touchdown prevention at this point.

 

[Tristan]

#1 R.W. is the most intimidating DB in the game, he is todays Ronnie Lott or Jack Tatum.

#2 Regardless of interceptions, R.W. has a huge impact on the game, coaches scheme to avoid him, offenses fear him, he has always made big time clutch plays like against Philly last year, or agains O.U., he is a rare impact player!

#3 Why would you trade him for a top 10 pick? he is a top ten pick! who has proved to be a great pick, Ryan Sims anyone?. So why trade a great top ten pick for one that could be a bust?

#4 The only other safties close to him in age, talent and impact are Sean Taylor and Ed Reed, maybe Palamalu. Ed Reed is great in coverage, but IMO no where near the dominating force that R.W. is capable of being. Ed Reed is a pot head, not that that makes him a bad person, but it could eventualy have a disastrous effect on your franchise. Sean Taylor is the only guy capable of dominating, and intimidating like R.W. but obviously he has huge character issues. R.W. is a tremendous worker, tremendous player and has great character.

#5 I LOVE ROY WILLIAMS! (not in a Brokeback Mountain kind of way)

That said, the question was who would you personally trade him for? not what is a fair trade, or should we trade him, but what would it take for you to trade him?

My opinion is that he is a franchise cornerstone that is virtually untouchable, however if you do not have a franchise QB, then you do whatever you need to do to get one.

I personally think there is a good chance that Drew Henson will come to realize his enormous potential, and just in time to succeed Bledsoe. That being said, if you have a chance to get a sure thing you do it.

I would only consider trading Roy Williams for the following players.....

#1 Peyton Manning
#2 Tom Brady
#3 Carson Palmer
#4 Matt Leinart
#5 Eli Manning
#6 Phillip Rivers
#7 Reggie Bush

 

[Pokes28]

I'd trade him for any of those (with the exception of Rivers).

I'd add to that list Palamalu, Walter Jones, Orlando Pace, and Richard Seymore. These are the guys off the top of my head right now. I'm sure I could come up with another 10 guys if I really thought about it. But these are based on who and where I currently think Dallas could use some help. Getting a premier LT (and moving Adams to RT) would help this team more than replacing Roy with an average SS.

David Harrell - Pokes
dwh

 

[junk]

OK, interesting answers so far.

How about another discussion point?

Dallas is in the midst of trying to assemble a formidable front 7. Ideally, a defensive coordinator has many, many more options if he can stop the run and pressure the passer with only 7 in the box.

Roy is, by far, his best in the box. If Dallas is able to put together a front 7 that can regularly stop the run and pressure the passer, what does the role of the strong safety (Roy) in the Dallas defense become?

 

[baj1dallas]

RW could be in any system under any coordinator and it wouldnt change the fact that Reed is far better in coverage, much faster, and has a knack for making big plays unlike any other defensive player currently in football.

Do you watch the games man? Roy makes play after play after play after play.

I wouldn't trade him for less than two high first round draft picks.

 

[bbgun]

uh, you realize that in 4yrs Reed has forced a total of 26 turnovers and Williams has forced 20 right? if Roy "doesnt force many turnovers" then does that mean reed doesnt as well?

also, RW has forced a t least a couple of fumbles via special teams...not sure if those are tallied on a players defensive stats or not

and his big hits often result in a WR dropping a ball...its happened alot

David

You're stacking the deck by only factoring in the positives. If you considered all of his negative plays (which are plentiful), he averages out to be, well, average--not unlike a latter day Andre Waters or Chuck Cecil. Yes, that MNF interception in Philly was great, but it's balanced by his pathetic performance against the Skins (two long TDs and a critical dropped int). "Big hitter" does not mean "complete player."

 

[dbair1967]

You're stacking the deck by only factoring in the positives. If you considered all of his negative plays (which are plentiful), he averages out to be, well, average--not unlike a latter day Andre Waters or Chuck Cecil. Yes, that MNF interception in Philly was great, but it's balanced by his pathetic performance against the Skins (two long TDs and a critical dropped int). "Big hitter" does not mean "complete player."

unless you somehow have Tivo'd every Baltimore Ravens game, how could you possibly talk about Roy's negatives and reasonably know anything about Reed's? If Reed were the ultra dominant playmaker everyone makes him out to be, why did he only have one int last yr? This isnt just directed at you, but also every other person clamoring for "lets trade RW for Reed!!!"...I'm guessing nobody who posts on this forum has seen more than a couple games a yr at best of Ed Reed...the rest of their exposure to him comes via ESPN highlights

Williams is not good enough in coverage to cover other teams best WR's man to man SS...Reed is better playing in space but is not the intimidator that Roy is, nor is he anywhere near as good vs the run or blitzing...but Williams has shown he can cover TE's and RB's, and from time to time has excellent coverage on WR's (not many safeties, if any could cover Jimmy Smith man to man 40 yds downfield with perfection and come away with a clean pick- as RW did as a rookie)...all this liabilitycoverage is pretty much b/s, as you can legitimately count on one hand how many times RW got beat or blew a coverage last yr

finally, I find it comical that everyone always ASSUMES a player elsewhere would duplicate his success here, when in fact 6 years track record on the defensive side of the ball shows that Mike Zimer's teams dont force many turnovers, they dont play the ball, they dont sack or consistently pressure the QB and they dont even stop the run consistently...SIX YEARS folks

David

 

[dbair1967]

You are simply wrong

RW could be in any system under any coordinator and it wouldnt change the fact that Reed is far better in coverage, much faster, and has a knack for making big plays unlike any other defensive player currently in football.

And that whole "Reed is on a better, more telanted defense" thing works both ways. Considering he has Ray Lewis, Terrell Suggs, until last year Edgerton Hartwell, etc. wouldnt you expect him to have less tackles?

"Randall Cunningham is better than Troy Aikman"

enough said

David

 

[The30YardSlant]

"Randall Cunningham is better than Troy Aikman"

enough said

David

Typical, not that I would expect anything less from you

Here, let me try to be dbair for a post: