Whats up with dallascowboys.com re: Ogletree?

[WoodysGirl]

Can somebody tell me how many tackles this 'core special teamer' has?

Is it enough to justify being a complete waste of (roster) space otherwise?

Thanks in advance!

While tackles are good, I think the point that's being made is that maybe Coach D trust Stanback to know where to be on the field in the ST formations that he won't be caught out of position and open up a jail break.

So even if he's not in on the tackle, he won't leave a huge gaping hole for a returner to run through.

JMO..

 

[Stash]

While tackles are good, I think the point that's being made is that maybe Coach D trust Stanback to know where to be on the field in the ST formations that he won't be caught out of position and open up a jail break.

So even if he's not in on the tackle, he won't leave a huge gaping hole for a returner to run through.

JMO..

And guys who can run in a straight line and do nothing else are in such high demand?

Sorry, but I've pretty much had it with the excuses for why a player with a blank stat sheet should get another season, especially at the expense of a player who has shown football ability as some here suggest.

 

[jchocolate82]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Per Rafael Vela at ...

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2009/...lity#storyjump

"Don't Throw the Core Out With the Discards"

"DeCamillis has settled on a core of players. A couple are names many of us, me included have marked for death. Pat Watkins continues on both kickoff and both punt units, greatly improving his chances of hanging on. The same is true of wideout Isaiah Stanback. He hurt his cause by fumbling a pass, but had a strong game on special teams. He and rookie Jason Williams were frequently the first two down on kickoff returns. He plays in the middle of the punt coverage team, in one of the slots Keith Davis used to occupy. Stanback had a solid 30 yard return and his downfield block on a 'Niners gunner sprung Crayton on his big return. Stanback is playing like a cat who knows he's on his 9th life, and that adrenaline-infused hustle may keep him in a Cowboys uniform.

Stanback, Watkins, John Phillips and Jason Williams are four guys Coach D has trusted the last two weeks. Watch next week to see if these four have company on the special teams core.



And you exclaimed "WOW!"?

WOW!

:laugh1: you're proving nothing to me with this blog. Go back and read all my comments to you especially the very first one. The whole theme of my comments have been if stanback makes this team its not going to be at the expense of Ogletree and that he wont survive to the PS. I even stated in my first reply to you that if stanback makes this team and does improve and becomes a better WR I was all for it cause it was that much better for the team, but you implied that Stanback would be kept over Ogletree and that the organization should make the gamble and put O through the waivers to try and put him on the PS. Ogletree has made this team and has locked up the 5th WR spot O is our 5th WR he's worked his tail off and has earned that much. Stanback is just battling for a roster spot period and I dont care what some blog says I'm taking the talent everytime.

 

[WoodysGirl]

And guys who can run in a straight line and do nothing else are in such high demand?

Sorry, but I've pretty much had it with the excuses for why a player with a blank stat sheet should get another season, especially at the expense of a player who has shown football ability as some here suggest.

Not suggesting that. Your impatience with all things Stanback is well-known. I'm not that invested in either guy to engage in that particular debate.

You asked for clarification and I gave it. Based on what Vela wrote, Coach D sees him as a core guy and seemingly trusts him to be where he's supposed to be on a field full of inexperienced and other mistake-prone players.

 

[Stash]

Not suggesting that. Your impatience with all things Stanback is well-known. I'm not that invested in either guy to engage in that particular debate.

Impatience?

The guy's been here three years?

How much patience does he get?

More like my preference for a wide receiver who can play wide receiver. I've stated before that if the team feels that they should keep 6 receivers, I'm fine with that.

What I'm not fine with is keeping Stanback over Ogletree.

You asked for clarification and I gave it. Based on what Vela wrote, Coach D sees him as a core guy and seemingly trusts him to be where he's supposed to be on a field full of inexperienced and other mistake-prone players.

Sorry, but I still don't see where my question was answered.

How many tackles did the core special teamer have?

I don't put much value in simply running down the field.

Not enough to keep a guy who can't do anything else anyway.

 

[WoodysGirl]

More like my preference for a wide receiver who can play wide receiver. I've stated before that if the team feels that they should keep 6 receivers, I'm fine with that.

What I'm not fine with is keeping Stanback over Ogletree.

I think only one guy in this thread has suggested that.

Sorry, but I still don't see where my question was answered.

How many tackles did the core special teamer have?

I don't put much value in simply running down the field.

Not enough to keep a guy who can't do anything else anyway.

Obviously.

One guy could have 50 ST tackles, but if it was caused by another guy leaving gaping holes in the process, maybe you'd see differently. Then again maybe not.

I've presented my theory. Take it as you wish or toss it out.

 

[Everlastingxxx]

Sorry for spoiling the party for you, but Stanback will righfully be the teams #5 WR, Ogletree will be cut, clear waivers and provide us a good practice double on the practice squad; and that's not such a bad thing, because he could develop his game there, both as a WR and special teamer.

Stanback rightfully belongs with another team as a 3rd string QB.

Ogletree not only will make the team, but will play this season.

Love to see what you have to say once these things happen.

 

[igtmfo]

On the other hand ... Stanback's game-ending, possibly game-losing (?) fumble might have been the last straw for the staff, good special teams or no.

Interesting if Stanback sits this week while other guys "that might actually have a position" are auditioned on special teams.

Probably not though. Special teams are so thin now that DeCamillis needs all hands on deck, and coaches need to throw him a bone. DeCamillis is in meetings arguing to keep any guys on the 53 that can play special teams, and Stanback is one of the few that apparently graded real good.

 

[tomson75]

On the other hand ... Stanback's game-ending, possibly game-losing (?) fumble might have been the last straw for the staff, good special teams or no.

Interesting if Stanback sits this week while other guys "that might actually have a position" are auditioned on special teams.

Probably not though. Special teams are so thin now that DeCamillis needs all hands on deck, and coaches need to throw him a bone. DeCamillis is in meetings arguing to keep any guys on the 53 that can play special teams, and Stanback is one of the few that apparently graded real good.

I'd be surprised if we don't get our longest look at Stanback to date...

Could provide for some animated discussion here afterwards.

 

[Doomsday101]

I'd be surprised if we don't get our longest look at Stanback to date...

Could provide for some animated discussion here afterwards.

I hope Stanback does see a lot of playing time in the last game of pre-season but he is going to have to do something and I hope he does. It would make no sense at this stage for Dallas to keep him if he is not going to show anything.

Some seem to be getting after Olgetree fact is in these 3 games he has show more than Stanback has since he has been here. I don't like to disrespect the guy but come on potential is one thing but sooner or later you have to be judge by your play and Stanback has not done anything pre-season or regular season since he has been here. Earn the job or leave

 

[Everlastingxxx]

I'd be surprised if we don't get our longest look at Stanback to date...

Could provide for some animated discussion here afterwards.

I bet you Stanback returns a kickoff. I just know this guy is going to weasle onto the roster somehow, someway.

 

[Stash]

I hope Stanback does see a lot of playing time in the last game of pre-season but he is going to have to do something and I hope he does. It would make no sense at this stage for Dallas to keep him if he is not going to show anything.

Some seem to be getting after Olgetree fact is in these 3 games he has show more than Stanback has since he has been here. I don't like to disrespect the guy but come on potential is one thing but sooner or later you have to be judge by your play and Stanback has not done anything pre-season or regular season since he has been here. Earn the job or leave

I hope Stanback plays a ton, has a great game and forces the team to keep 6 receivers - I really do.

But if he doesn't, there's no legitimate reason for him to make the roster.

And if he somehow did, at Ogletree's expense, then this team is in worse shape that any of us think.

 

[gimmesix]

I'm highly against keeping Stanhack over Pat Watkins. Watkins still resembles a player while Stanhack looks, well, like a hack out there.

You're kidding, right? Watkins is terrible as a safety and has completely exhausted any possibility of improving.

 

[gimmesix]

And suddenly, somehow, some way, Stanback is a 'key special teamer' is the latest excuse to keep a physically-talented, non-performer around.

How many special teams tackles does this 'key performer' have?

Anyone?

Anyone?

He's been in on several special teams tackles this preseason, outplaying Watkins in that area on kickoff coverage from what I've seen.

However, even if he makes the team, I doubt he'll be active for games to perform on special teams since we'd most likely just take four receivers. He'd have to be so good that we'd take a risk and leave a DB inactive in order to have a fifth receiver active or take him to games instead of Austin or Hurd, and I don't think he's that good.

 

[Stash]

He's been in on several special teams tackles this preseason, outplaying Watkins in that area on kickoff coverage from what I've seen.

According to NFL.com's preseason stats, he's not credited with a single tackle.

Heck, Ogletree's even got him beat in the kick return department!

 

[gimmesix]

According to NFL.com's preseason stats, he's not credited with a single tackle.

Doesn't really mean much since I've watched and rewatched the tapes to focus on such things. Based on what I've seen, he's been one of our better kickoff coverage men. That doesn't mean he's been in on every tackle, just three or four, which is more than most of the players have been in on.

 

[Stash]

Doesn't really mean much since I've watched and rewatched the tapes to focus on such things. Based on what I've seen, he's been one of our better kickoff coverage men. That doesn't mean he's been in on every tackle, just three or four, which is more than most of the players have been in on.

Seems odd that they'd be so off, but since they have Greg Isdaner credited with a sack, I wouldn't rule it out...

:laugh2:

 

[speedkilz88]

They can't even tell the difference between Brooking and Isdaner.

 

[gimmesix]

Seems odd that they'd be so off, but since they have Greg Isdaner credited with a sack, I wouldn't rule it out...

:laugh2:

Still probably doesn't matter on Stanback, though. It's good that he's showing special teams ability, but it won't mean much if he's not active.

That's one of the things that drives me crazy about special teams in the preseason. You work to make those units effective, but some of the guys you use, who might be some of your better ST players, won't be available to you during the regular season.

I mean, who knows if Watkins or Stanback will make the team? It's possible that we won't be able to carry both Victor Butler and Steve Octavien to games (or maybe we take them and not Hodge, if he makes the team). Courtney Brown certainly is not going to make this team. Etc.

Now a lot of the players will be in place, but all it takes is one of the ones stepping into the place of a Stanback or Watkins being out of position for a big return to happen. But if you're going to load your special teams with backups, the only thing you can do is try to give most of the preseason work to guys you believe you can count on to make the team ... which I'm not sure Dallas has done.

 

[tskyler]

Stanback is a hard one for me. I almost always like the hard worker that shows up in the preseason vs. the athletic talent with potential. However, I really see the potential in Stanback. I think he's going to be a great receiver one day and I think he gives some options in WildCat long term. Ogletree looks like Hurd did to me several seasons ago. Competent, workman-like, etc. I just don't see any upside with him. He is what he is. Maybe that's enough. I see Ogletree as a younger Sam Hurd and Stanback as a younger Miles Austin. (You could argue Crayton since they were both QB's and could both have a Wildcat role. But, I see Stanback's real backup potential as a providing the same explosiveness they are trying to get with Austin)

Stanback hasn't done anything to prove he belongs. Keeping him is a gamble. However, I see Ogletree as JAG. Maybe that's what we need. But, I can't see a gamble on Stanback as a crazy thing. I just don't see injuries as something that should count against a player. Yes, things can reoccur. Yes, he's older than when he came in the league. But, unless you are saying that he is a whiny baby or that the football god's are and will continue to punish him for his sins, I think the whole injury prone argument is stupid. Columbo is the best example. He got hurt a couple of times and the Bears gave up. If you believe in the potential of a player then I think you have to be mature, rational, and suck up the bad taste that previous injuries have left in your mouth.

Watkins is the opposite case. He's a guy who has been around enough to know what he is. He is not going to be a starting safety. He is always going to be a gunner. Again, maybe we just need a gunner this year, just like we need a workman-like Ogletree and Stanback is a luxury. I won't get worked up whatever we do but I do see the diamond when most of you guys see the coal and it is freaking me out. I hate being on the pro-athleticism vs. skills side of the debate.

Skyler