When exactly was Dallas supposed to run the clock out?

[Chocolate Lab]

Hahaha "keeping the defense off the field" is always the objective. We tried to do that by throwing the ball instead of running into a 10-in-the-box wall. Are you assuming we'd have picked up the 1st down by running right into the teeth of their D when they're selling out hard for the run?

You have those numbers on how often they had 10 in the box? Are you talking about the next to last drive only?

It makes you wonder how any team who ever has a big lead ever runs the ball. I mean, the other team knows they want to run it, right?

It's just like joeboy said, and the same thing we went through after that Detroit debacle (the one from a couple years ago -- since we have to distinguish which Detroit debacle)... If you just keep the clock moving and get a few first downs, they don't have time to beat you barring a rash of turnovers or special teams scores.

 

[burmafrd]

That's just silly. They got 36 points with that ratio. But the defense takes no blame.

that 36 points did not hold up did it? Why? Because our D could not hold. The only reasonable alternative was to try and milk the clock by running the ball.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

They had the ball twice in the 3rd quarter. On the first drive they went 11 plays 6:35 minutes and got a FG.

Second drive Murray flat out drops a wide open pass. They can run it twice after that to run clock, but do you really want to give up on a drive inside your 20 in the 3rd Q. I don't. They probably could've run a draw on second down, but threw a short incomplete pass to Hanna. They tried to get a first and got sacked. It happens but at least the clock was running for all the complainers.

4th Q they go on a 10 play 90yd TD, 5minute drive to make it 36-24 with 7:55 left.

The Packers then go 80 yds for a TD for the 3rd time this half and score a TD for the fourth time in 4 tries to make it 36-31. Do you really believe Dallas can run out the 4:17 when GB has 3 TOs and the 2 minute warning. Dallas needs to keep scoring. On first down, Romo misses a wide open Dez after a great play fake. Sack on second, first down completion to Dez on third. Murray runs for 5yds on first down, GB TO. On second down a run/pass option is called. GB has 10 in the box to stop the run, so Romo goes with the quick slant option. Not a bad decision, but the throw was late and behind Austin. If he leads him it's probably a TD. Again, they weren't running out the clock and with a 10 man box, they weren't running for a first.

So if they went run, run there, GB uses another TO and gets the ball back after the punt with 2:00 left and no TOs. Does anyone think they hold GB on defense because GB had to use their TOs? Either way Dallas is in the same position of being down by one with around a minute left and 3 TOs.

Dude...

 

[Future]

And if Dallas hadn't scored on either of those drives, GB would've had the lead early in the 4th.

Considering the fact that we averaged more than 7 ypc for the game, its hard to imagine that we wouldn't have scored. That's the whole point...

Not to mention the fact that our run game actually had a higher YPA than our pass game. Murray averaged 7.4 per attempt, and, if you include sacks, we threw for 332 on 48 attempts, which is less than 7. Plus, we didn't have a turnover in the run game.

There is no logical reason not to run the football that I can think of.

 

[DOUBLE WING]

So they shouldn't throw the ball in the second half if they have a lead. Got it.

I'm not saying they should NEVER throw the ball. I'm saying in the situation that presented itself yesterday, they should have been running.

 

[LatinMind]

They had the ball twice in the 3rd quarter. On the first drive they went 11 plays 6:35 minutes and got a FG.

Second drive Murray flat out drops a wide open pass. They can run it twice after that to run clock, but do you really want to give up on a drive inside your 20 in the 3rd Q. I don't. They probably could've run a draw on second down, but threw a short incomplete pass to Hanna. They tried to get a first and got sacked. It happens but at least the clock was running for all the complainers.

4th Q they go on a 10 play 90yd TD, 5minute drive to make it 36-24 with 7:55 left.

The Packers then go 80 yds for a TD for the 3rd time this half and score a TD for the fourth time in 4 tries to make it 36-31. Do you really believe Dallas can run out the 4:17 when GB has 3 TOs and the 2 minute warning. Dallas needs to keep scoring. On first down, Romo misses a wide open Dez after a great play fake. Sack on second, first down completion to Dez on third. Murray runs for 5yds on first down, GB TO. On second down a run/pass option is called. GB has 10 in the box to stop the run, so Romo goes with the quick slant option. Not a bad decision, but the throw was late and behind Austin. If he leads him it's probably a TD. Again, they weren't running out the clock and with a 10 man box, they weren't running for a first.

So if they went run, run there, GB uses another TO and gets the ball back after the punt with 2:00 left and no TOs. Does anyone think they hold GB on defense because GB had to use their TOs? Either way Dallas is in the same position of being down by one with around a minute left and 3 TOs.

How about start running the ball to shorten the game when Durant and Sims went down? You know at halftime. You know whats going to happen with Wilber, Lawrence and Holloman at LBer. Its common sense.

In the 2nd half GB went up to 10 men in the box you say? In the 2nd half Murray was still 8 for 44 thats still 5.5 yrds a carry.

Common sense.You run

 

[DOUBLE WING]

The bottom line is that when something works, fans are happy and coaches are praised. When something doesn't work, fans are unhappy and coaches are criticized.

The truth is that it's mostly on the players. If they execute, the play-call works, and the coaches look like geniuses. If Romo hits Miles with an accurate pass and we move the chains, we win and the fans are happy. The overall run/pass ratio may still have been questioned, but nobody would be complaining about the pass that iced the game.

When we played at the Giants this year, we passed on 3rd down to move the chains when we were already in FG range. The result? Romo hits Beasley for the 1st down which allowed us to run the clock down and end the game on Bailey's field goal. Did anyone complain about the pass call there? Didn't think so. Oh, but if Romo's pass to Bailey was picked off and returned for a TD? Then Garrett/Callahan are idiots who need to be fired immediately.

Opening day 2007, Cowboys host the Giants. Cowboys up 38-35 with the ball and 3 minutes left... Giants are selling out to stop the run. There are 1-on-1's outside with no safety help. Romo hits Sam Hurd on a slant and Hurd breaks free for a long, game-clinching touchdown. Cowboys win 45-35. Never heard a single complaint about that play-call.

The bottom line is that we as fans can say whatever we want. Jason Garrett is the one who is paid millions of dollars to make the right decisions in these situations and he continually, time after time, makes the wrong decisions that lead to losses. Stop making excuses for his ineptitude.

 

[Roadtrip635]

The OL was blocking well and getting push all day, just because they stacked the box doesn't mean we wouldn't get positive yardage on the play, maybe even break one with so many defenders so close to the LOS.

From 1:04 of the third quarter until Romo's interception with 2:58 left, the Cowboys dropped back to pass on 14 of 15 plays, while never leading by fewer than five points.

Murray gained at least 4 yards on 14 of his 18 carries and had four runs of 10 yards or more. Murray's only negative run occurred on his fourth carry of the game. The OL and Murray were doing their job well, but Romo and the coaching staff panicked.

 

[Nav22]

Romo was shredding GB with the pass because the run was actually working. So, instead of doing the same thing in the second half, they decided to pass, pass, pass, instead of relying on play action, or a more balanced pass to run ratio. When four of your 18 attempts come in the second half where you're leading by three TDs, something is seriously wrong with the coaching. It's understandable if you're averaging less three yards or less per carry, but only barely. It's inexcusable if you're popping well over five yards per carry. I don't even know why people are even trying to rationalize this.

Again, I'm not defending the overall run/pass ratio. I agree that it needs to be more balanced than it was yesterday. But I have no problem with the calls down the stretch, including the INT that gave Green Bay the ball back with a chance to take the lead. The execution was the problem, not the call itself. If Miles gets open and Romo hits him in stride, nobody would be complaining today.

They had 10 in the box because every other team in that position with that kind of lead would be running the ball.
When its 3rd and 10 and your down multiple scores in the 2nd half and the D is running a Dime/Nickle package you dont audible into a run play do you? We did exactly what the Packers wanted us to do without even making them prove they could stop the run. Make them prove they can stop DM on 1st and 2nd down and then throw the ball maybe. No, instead we just throw up the white flag just because they stack the box. 7.5 ypc tells me that we could have probably done ok even with extra guys at the line

Sounds like you favored a much more conservative approach, sort of like the approach we took against Tom Brady and the Pats 2 seasons ago. Guess what? If we followed your plan and it backfired, the coaches would STILL be getting skewered. That's how fans are.

 

[NoLuv4Jerry]

You realize it was only second down, right? We didn't need to pick up a first down on that play.

OK...so we run it and Green Bay uses a timeout. I find it LAUGHABLE that people keep talking about forcing teams to BURN timeouts. Conventional wisdom does NOT work with this defense. How long did Deroit need to go 80 yards? How long did Chicago need before the end of the 1st half last week in sub-zero temp with a backup QB. Teams are litterally throwing against air on us. The objective for this team should be to score 50! Because this defense is NOT going to stop ANYONE!!!!

 

[DOUBLE WING]

The problem with the whole premise behind the "why should we have been running" argument is that people are using this "running means you're playing not to lose" fallacy as a crutch. As if throwing the ball is the only way that you can play "aggressive" and try to win the game. We were running the ball so well that we probably would have had more offensive success and kept GB's offense off the field if we had kept feeding Murray.

 

[DMAC]

Hahahah... remember the Cowboys-Patriots game in 2011? When we ran 3 straight times, punted, and Tom Brady marched down the field to beat us?

Remember the reaction from fans after the game? How Garrett was a spineless wuss who didn't trust his QB to close the game out?

I do.

Now we're reminded why he doesn't trust his QB to close out a game!

 

[DOUBLE WING]

Again, I'm not defending the overall run/pass ratio. I agree that it needs to be more balanced than it was yesterday. But I have no problem with the calls down the stretch, including the INT that gave Green Bay the ball back with a chance to take the lead. The execution was the problem, not the call itself. If Miles gets open and Romo hits him in stride, nobody would be complaining today.


Sounds like you favored a much more conservative approach, sort of like the approach we took against Tom Brady and the Pats 2 seasons ago. Guess what? If we followed your plan and it backfired, the coaches would STILL be getting skewered. That's how fans are.

You have no problem with 4 throws/1 run on that drive when we were up 36-31 with four minutes left?

Stop the stupid comparisons to the New England game. We couldn't run at all in the game. We were gashing GB on the ground yesterday.

 

[NoLuv4Jerry]

Now we're reminded why he doesn't trust his QB to close out a game!

So let me ask you this...would you trust this defense...which has been HISTORICALLY bad...not bad in spurts...but the WORST in the history of the NFL..or do you trust a guy who has actually answered the bell on game winning drives before. Again, when is the last time this defense closed out a game?

 

[DABOYZ]

He meant literally RUN the clock out.

I appreciate the OP. I think we could've run at least once on the drive that ended with the Romo sack on 3rd down, but again, Murray drops a short pass in the flats on 1st down that would've been "like a run". We could've run it on 2nd down, but like the OP said, we threw short instead and missed Hanna. Those are high-percentage passes that gain a few yards and keep the clock rolling, we just happened to miss on them.

The fervor reminds me of the reaction after the Cowboys-Lions in 2011 when Romo infamously threw back-to-back pick sixes in the 3rd quarter and everyone was crying about "why aren't we running out the clock!?!?" Um, it was the THIRD quarter and we had already run it for most of those drives. Can't just run it 100% of the time starting early in the 3rd quarter, especially with this D.

Divide 18 by 48 and let me know what you come up with. Far from 100% if you ask me. I know simple math is often times hard to understand but seriously. Also there is no such thing as a high percentage pass play as it pertains to this offense. Stop buying into the JG BS. A dropped "high percentage" pass is still a pass that prevents this team from closing out games.

 

[DOUBLE WING]

So let me ask you this...would you trust this defense...which has been HISTORICALLY bad...not bad in spurts...but the WORST in the history of the NFL..or do you trust a guy who has actually answered the bell on game winning drives before. Again, when is the last time this defense closed out a game?

Just by simply running 3 times on that last drive to end the third quarter, even if we ran three straight times and then punted, we would have wiped two minutes off the clock. Chances are we would have picked up a first anyway considering how well Murray was running, but let's say we run 3 times and punt.

If everything else plays out the same, we get the ball up 36-31 with like 2:20 left rather than 4 minutes. Let's say we run 3 more times (instead of 4 throws, 1 run) and have to punt, they use two timeouts and the 2 minute warning. So they get the ball with like 1:50 left and probably worse field position than they started with on the INT. After Romo's INT, it took them 1:31 to score from the 50-yard line. Chris Jones averaged 50 yards per punt yesterday. So let's say we punt from the 25 and they start at their own 25.

Maybe they still score go 75 yards in 1:50 and score anyway, but even under that MOST CONSERVATIVE estimate, which is the assumption that we get stuffed on ALL OF OUR RUNNING PLAYS (which the course of yesterday's game tells us likely would not have happened), we still would have made things much more difficult on Green Bay than we did by basically gift-wrapping them yesterday's game.

 

[jday]

They had the ball twice in the 3rd quarter. On the first drive they went 11 plays 6:35 minutes and got a FG.

Second drive Murray flat out drops a wide open pass. They can run it twice after that to run clock, but do you really want to give up on a drive inside your 20 in the 3rd Q. I don't. They probably could've run a draw on second down, but threw a short incomplete pass to Hanna. They tried to get a first and got sacked. It happens but at least the clock was running for all the complainers.

4th Q they go on a 10 play 90yd TD, 5minute drive to make it 36-24 with 7:55 left.

The Packers then go 80 yds for a TD for the 3rd time this half and score a TD for the fourth time in 4 tries to make it 36-31. Do you really believe Dallas can run out the 4:17 when GB has 3 TOs and the 2 minute warning. Dallas needs to keep scoring. On first down, Romo misses a wide open Dez after a great play fake. Sack on second, first down completion to Dez on third. Murray runs for 5yds on first down, GB TO. On second down a run/pass option is called. GB has 10 in the box to stop the run, so Romo goes with the quick slant option. Not a bad decision, but the throw was late and behind Austin. If he leads him it's probably a TD. Again, they weren't running out the clock and with a 10 man box, they weren't running for a first.

So if they went run, run there, GB uses another TO and gets the ball back after the punt with 2:00 left and no TOs. Does anyone think they hold GB on defense because GB had to use their TOs? Either way Dallas is in the same position of being down by one with around a minute left and 3 TOs.

At the point, it wasn't even about running the clock out. It was about going with what was working, which was the run game. To me it looked like with a lead they literally gave up on a running game that was actually working. Who does that? I mean, you might have an argument if the situation was the running game simply wasn't working. Maybe. But in this case, Demarco Murray was averaging over 7 yards per carry. So why pass on 1st and 2nd down?

 

[DABOYZ]

You keep the defense off the field by getting first downs. You were not RUNNING for a first down with 10 in the box. If you wanted to run...put 4 WRs on the field and spread them out. Play call was perfect...throw was off a little.

Madden has mislead so many fans.

 

[TINGS21]

Sounds like you favored a much more conservative approach, sort of like the approach we took against Tom Brady and the Pats 2 seasons ago. Guess what? If we followed your plan and it backfired, the coaches would STILL be getting skewered. That's how fans are.[/quote]

Just a little bit of a difference between those 2 games.
1. The largest lead 3pt vs 23
2. Yards per Rush 3.2 vs 7.5
3. Brady vs Flynn

 

[Dodger12]

You have those numbers on how often they had 10 in the box? Are you talking about the next to last drive only?

It makes you wonder how any team who ever has a big lead ever runs the ball. I mean, the other team knows they want to run it, right?

It's just like joeboy said, and the same thing we went through after that Detroit debacle (the one from a couple years ago -- since we have to distinguish which Detroit debacle)... If you just keep the clock moving and get a few first downs, they don't have time to beat you barring a rash of turnovers or special teams scores.

Sometimes I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone when I read some of these posts. How can anyone defend the play calling the second half? Just mind boggling......

And I agree with the bolded part. If you can get to the next level it can lead to a huge gain. Think of the Seattle playoff game after the Romo bobbled snap. They ran it down our throats pinned at their own goal line with the whole world knowing they were going to run. We just couldn't stop it.