Where KSK was WRONG!

[kskboys]

There is a difference in what I have stated and what Greg (? Diehardblues i suppose) stated ... Greg was stating things that are objectively false, and easily refuted with a minimal bit of research

The overall greatness of players? This is truly a conversation for another day... We can go over all the players one by one, do an exhaustive analysis if you'd like.

But the game progresses... each generation has outdone the last in terms of performance etc... Its a natural progression... There has been no Ruthian archetype in the NFL who stood head and shoulders above the rest for 100 + years...

So yeah, Brady is the GOAT ... and you know what, one day, maybe soon, someone else will come along and knock him off the top of the mountain... One player with that potential is already playing the game...

so its not the same thing... And you should know that...

Nope. Brady is not the GOAT.

 

[DandyDon52]

I was one who felt last year didnt mean brady was done, he was in a very weak offense.
This year he is doing much better, but Arians is forcing tom to run his offense, which I think is a mistake.
The offense pats used in NE won 6 SB's , and Arian has never been to a SB, and he thinks his offense is the way to go lol.

But tom has adapted , and gronk is now playing like the old gronk.
I am watching the bucc raider game tonight, and gronk made a great td catch, and the guy miller # 10 made a great catch on the bomb to the end zone.
Brady also put the ball right where it should be on that pass to miller.
I have noticed that brady has had good protection in this game.

I predicted that brady if he made it thru the season would get tampa in the playoffs, and possibly win the division.
Right now looks like playoffs are gonna happen, and winning the div is possible, but they have to stay up with NO, and then beat them
in the 2nd game with them.

Tampa is getting better each week, so is brady, and I call that the "Brady effect" he inspires other players, and gives them confidence.
And now with the success so far and leading the div or tied for 1st is giving the team more confidence, and that winning is something
they can now do.
The defense will play better because they now have a good offense, it is sort of a snowball effect , or like that old song
one thing leads to another.
I have never liked tampa bay, but when brady went there, I have been rooting for them all season, and they are now probably
my fav team.
I always have a backup team or 2 , because the cowboys.......well you know lol.

 

[Diehardblues]

Nope. Brady is not the GOAT.

He is the greatest in the Super Bowl era. 9 SB appearances and 6 championships is unmatched. And still going.

That doesn’t mean he’s the greatest passer , etc...just the most successful which is whether we agree or not is how we measure QB’s. Winning and results matter. No one over time is more clutch including Montana , Elway or Staubach, etc.

His longevity has tested time which in itself places him as the greatest. Did he benefit from good teams and coaching. Of course but so did the other greats. With the game on the line there’s no other QB I’d rather have including these mentioned above. He’s proved it more and longer than anyone. Only personal bias would argue otherwise .

And I thought no one was more clutch than Montana or greater comeback ability than Staubach. There are greater pure passer but again results matter. Brady is the greatest all time winner at QB. The rest is just speculative arguments.

 

[kskboys]

He is the greatest in the Super Bowl era. 9 SB appearances and 6 championships is unmatched. And still going.

That doesn’t mean he’s the greatest passer , etc...just the most successful which is whether we agree or not is how we measure QB’s. Winning and results matter. No one over time is more clutch including Montana , Elway or Staubach, etc.

His longevity has tested time which in itself places him as the greatest. Did he benefit from good teams and coaching. Of course but so did the other greats. With the game on the line there’s no other QB I’d rather have including these mentioned above. He’s proved it more and longer than anyone. Only personal bias would argue otherwise .

And I thought no one was more clutch than Montana or greater comeback ability than Staubach. There are greater pure passer but again results matter. Brady is the greatest all time winner at QB. The rest is just speculative arguments.

That's contradictory. Most successful is not the same as the greatest. Brady is obviously the most successful after Otto Graham w/ 7 championships. The greatest has a different definiton, which is way too grey to simply name one.

 

[Diehardblues]

That's contradictory. Most successful is not the same as the greatest. Brady is obviously the most successful after Otto Graham w/ 7 championships. The greatest has a different definiton, which is way too grey to simply name one.

Otto Graham only has 3 NFL titles. The other 4 were from AAFC which later merged with NFL. Look it up.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Graham

Regardless nobody cares about the pre SB era. They had 12 teams and no playoffs. One championship game. Regardless no one had more NFL championships than Brady.

Most successful QB is directly related to greatest. When you include Graham, Star and Montana its all about their success. Or you’d include Staubach, Elway, etc. And any consideration related to as such would have to begin with Brady and why winning matters when evaluating QB’s at that level regardless our personal evaluations or opinions.

Like I’ve often said , this doesn’t mean he’s the greatest passer in SB era. That’s a subjective opinion. There is no absolute answer. Dancing around it is simply trying to interject personal preferences. 9 SB’s and 6 Rings surpasses everyone. That’s the only measurement for GOAT.

 

[nightrain]

"Tom Friendly" could carry this guy another 10 years.

 

[Diehardblues]

"Tom Friendly" could carry this guy another 10 years.

I’m thinking 2 or 3 pending his health of course.

But you never know . His work ethic, incredible diet and workout regime is unprecedented. I thought George Blanda was special playing to 48 but he didn’t start all of those years.

It’s an amazing story and we’ve been lucky it’s in our lifetime to see it. I’m not sure why more fans and football purist haven’t embraced the greatness. It’s been a joy to watch.

 

[Diehardblues]

In an era in which the Salary Cap has delivered mediocrity with watered down rosters and depth we have a throwback team which totally dominated the era over a couple decades with one great QB unlike we’ve ever seen over this long of period in NFL history. It’s unlikely we’ll see this level of sustained success again. Or in our lifetimes.

 

[Diehardblues]

This generation of fans have so much hate towards players who aren’t on their team unlike I’ve ever seen in my lifetime.

I grew up marveling and idolizing players like Jim Brown, Johnny Unitas, Mickey Mantel , Willie Mays, Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlin and never really rooted for their teams. Just wanted to see the best teams and players perform.

And my passion and thought process has never changed. I root for my home team but it’s not always the best players or team . I love the sport or the game and competition more.

I recall traveling to see Earl Campbell and Eric Dickerson in HS just to see them play. And followed them all the way through their careers never rooting for their team.

I’m not sure fans of this generation are as passionate about the sport as they are their own teams anymore. Yes, it’s great when our team is great and we have some awesome talent. But my love of the sport and overall talent is the driving force.

 

[Pape]

Nope. Brady is not the GOAT.

Sorry ksk. It's true.

Tom wins. More than anyone.

 

[kskboys]

Sorry ksk. It's true.

Tom wins. More than anyone.

Ah, you're guilty of incomplete analysis. No wonder you make claims as fact that are opinion. Dig deeper, grasshopper!!!!

 

[kskboys]

Otto Graham only has 3 NFL titles. The other 4 were from AAFC which later merged with NFL. Look it up.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Graham

Regardless nobody cares about the pre SB era. They had 12 teams and no playoffs. One championship game. Regardless no one had more NFL championships than Brady.

Most successful QB is directly related to greatest. When you include Graham, Star and Montana its all about their success. Or you’d include Staubach, Elway, etc. And any consideration related to as such would have to begin with Brady and why winning matters when evaluating QB’s at that level regardless our personal evaluations or opinions.

Like I’ve often said , this doesn’t mean he’s the greatest passer in SB era. That’s a subjective opinion. There is no absolute answer. Dancing around it is simply trying to interject personal preferences. 9 SB’s and 6 Rings surpasses everyone. That’s the only measurement for GOAT.

Hey, you're the one using championships as the sole criteria. If that's your criteria, Graham is the GOAT. If not, tell me what it is so we can have a DISCUSSION.

 

[Diehardblues]

Hey, you're the one using championships as the sole criteria. If that's your criteria, Graham is the GOAT. If not, tell me what it is so we can have a DISCUSSION.

I have specifically said greatest in SB era. But I’d put any of the greats up against the old timers of pre SB era.

Otto Graham was the greatest of that era.

And there is no discussion because there is no other criteria. The rest is subjective opinion.

And I don’t count Graham as winning 7 NFL championships . He officially only has 3. The other 4 are in the AAFC. But it doesn’t matter.

IMO you’re simply using that to defute Toms the greatest champion of all time because of personal preference. And that’s basically what GOAT is about. It is about winning.

 

[Diehardblues]

I think we always have to be open to new greats coming along. Dad said, “ old legends never die but new ones are born”.

I thought for decades Id never see anyone as great as a Staubach or Montana. But I have now.

And he’s done it longer sustaining dominance more than any QB in NFL history.

Im even more convinced now. Only personal preference would slight someone of his career accomplishments and staying power . We’ve never seen anyone in NFL history like Tom Brady before.

 

[Diehardblues]

Brady could win 10 Super Bowls and some fans still wouldn’t give him the credit he deserves because of personal feelings towards him or the Pats.

I wasn’t a Jordan or Lebron fan but I love to watch them . And there’s no denying their dominance , success and stature in history.

The greatest players don’t have to be on the teams we like or root for.

 

[Diehardblues]

There was some doubt heading into this season but there’s not anymore. Brady still has much left in the tank .

And he’s turned around a 7-9 team into a SB contender while his former 12-4 team has fallen to 2-5. Very compelling evidence. Proof is always in the pudding .

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

There was some doubt heading into this season but there’s not anymore. Brady still has much left in the tank .

And he’s turned around a 7-9 team into a SB contender while his former 12-4 team has fallen to 2-5. Very compelling evidence. Proof is always in the pudding .

Truth be told if Buccs had almost any other quarterback they would’ve been better than 7-9. Turnovers at crucial times hurt them. Brady isn’t dumb it’s why he went to the Buccs. He knew they were stacked.

 

[Diehardblues]

Truth be told if Buccs had almost any other quarterback they would’ve been better than 7-9. Turnovers at crucial times hurt them. Brady isn’t dumb it’s why he went to the Buccs. He knew they were stacked.

They had a top 5 reliever and a solid defense. Adding Gronk was sweet. But stacked . That’s not how I would describe Tampa offense. Not stacked like we were .

 

[visionary]

Tom Brady. Holy Crapp. Not only was I wrong, I was soooooooooooooooo wrong. Dude is lighting it up like I never thought possible at his age.

“Where KSK was RIGHT” would be a MUCH MUCH shorter thread

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

They had a top 5 reliever and a solid defense. Adding Gronk was sweet. But stacked . That’s not how I would describe Tampa offense. Not stacked like we were .

Oh I disagree there. Factor in their defensive weapons too? To me Evans and Godwin were the best duo in the league. Factor in Howard and Brate....Jones at running back....this before they added Gronk and Fournette.