Who is more of a Hall of Fame lock?

[CrazyCowboy]

LOCKS....no doubt in my mind.....they can hold each others hand

 

[dargonking999]

Are you saying Michael Irvin was BETTER than Jerry Rice? Seriously?

I think we would be asking that question in a real debate, if Irvin never went down with that neck injury. He was "The Playmaker" for a reason. Rice is a great WR, just as Irvin was. But Irvin was the guy who always made the catch, ran 16 yard slant on 3rd and 15, and a 11 yard slant on 2nd and 10.

Is he better than Rice? The opinion is yours. But if you look at the games. Irvin was always dominate. whether he got 10 catches, or 1. He made every catch count.

 

[Stautner]

I think we would be asking that question in a real debate, if Irvin never went down with that neck injury. He was "The Playmaker" for a reason. Rice is a great WR, just as Irvin was. But Irvin was the guy who always made the catch, ran 16 yard slant on 3rd and 15, and a 11 yard slant on 2nd and 10.

Is he better than Rice? The opinion is yours. But if you look at the games. Irvin was always dominate. whether he got 10 catches, or 1. He made every catch count.

Jeez, you needed to watch games other than ones the Cowboys were in - you missed a lot.

Irvin was great, no doubt, but comparing him to Rice is like comparing Franco Harris to Jim Brown or Bruce Smith to Reggie White - in each case both are outstanding players HOF players, but in each case one is the best of the best - superior to all others.

 

[Doomsday101]

Jeez, you needed to watch games other than ones the Cowboys were in - you missed a lot.

Irvin was great, no doubt, but comparing him to Rice is like comparing Franco Harris to Jim Brown or Bruce Smith to Reggie White - in each case both are outstanding players HOF players, but in each case one is the best of the best - superior to all others.

I agree. I loved Irvin's game but Rice regardless if you like him or not was the best WR hands down.

 

[aikemirv]

Two things:

Deion was "far superior to Green" in coverage. I think that is a stretch. Better yes, but I don't think you can call him far superior except when Green was covering Irvin. D Green at 5' whatever could stick with Randy Moss as good as anybody so far superior I don't really agree to.

Irvin not so close to Rice - Two very different types of players IMO but Rice, I think is hands down, the best WR to ever play and you can't really get a concensus on many other positions like you can with Rice as the best WR.

 

[dargonking999]

Jeez, you needed to watch games other than ones the Cowboys were in - you missed a lot.

Irvin was great, no doubt, but comparing him to Rice is like comparing Franco Harris to Jim Brown or Bruce Smith to Reggie White - in each case both are outstanding players HOF players, but in each case one is the best of the best - superior to all others.

I saw rice, too much unfortunatly. But i think that Irvin could have had a comparable career

 

[Twyst]

In fact, I think Irvin in a more WR friendly home like Rice was in, easily matches him talent wise and production wise. Rice was NOT competing with someone like Emmitt Smith for time with the ball.

Who was the first running back in the NFL to get 1000 rushing yards and a 1000 receiving yards in a single season?

 

[Yeagermeister]

Go on. You were saying, players like Rice.. And those other players would be? Rice, yea, but you are implying more with that statement. I agree with you on Rice, but as far as the other players go, I think you'd have to dip into current players such as TO and Moss, and that might be all whom when it's all said 'n done rank higher than Irvin.

Irvin was NOT withheld from the first ballot becaues his playing ability lacked.

In fact, I think Irvin in a more WR friendly home like Rice was in, easily matches him talent wise and production wise. Rice was NOT competing with someone like Emmitt Smith for time with the ball. I thought it then and I still think it today, Irvin was the better receiver of the two. He not only brought more impact to the position, he literally changed the position and that's something Rice never did. And then let's not forget the West Coast style offense Rice played in. Short little dunk passes that racked up so many stats for that old boy. Take away our than ever dominate running game that had a nifty knack for finding the endzone, and Irvin was a 10-15rec a game receiver with a majority of the endzone celebrations going to him over #22.

Rice and Irvin are like Barry and Emmitt. One with the stats vs one with the higher hurdles to overcome. Who was better? I say Barry with our Offensive Line would have been a 2000 yard a year type of player, probably average. Irvin in San Fran's west-coast style offensive, competing against no league dominating running game is an easy 1500+ yard a year receiver and averages over 100 catches a year. The guy was unstoppable like Jerry Rice only wished he was.

I also remember Dieon after having practiced with both Rice and Irvin extensively, stating that Irvin was the player that rose his game higher by doing so. Not to mention Green eating dust many times after Irvin had left him spinning in circles. And as you stated, those two were the "cream of the crop" at their positions. Well Irvin's practice was to make ******es out of them both.

Rules were made to stop this guy!

Why is this having to be explained to a "Cowboy fan"??! You know Irvin was the best! Shame on you.

Rice was better....take of the blue tinted glasses and you'll see it.

 

[aikemirv]

Who was the first running back in the NFL to get 1000 rushing yards and a 1000 receiving yards in a single season?

I will take that ? - Roger Craig - right?

 

[Stautner]

Irvin not so close to Rice - Two very different types of players IMO but Rice, I think is hands down, the best WR to ever play and you can't really get a concensus on many other positions like you can with Rice as the best WR.

I can think of only three positions where a huge majority of fans (90%+)would agree on the best of all-time.

DE: Reggie White
OLB: Lawrence Taylor
WR: Jerry Rice

 

[Yeagermeister]

Who was the first running back in the NFL to get 1000 rushing yards and a 1000 receiving yards in a single season?

Hmmmm could it be Roger Craig?????? The team mate of Jerry Rice

 

[Stautner]

I saw rice, too much unfortunatly. But i think that Irvin could have had a comparable career

* Longevity is part of greatness - Jerry played 20 years and Irvin 12.
Irvin would have had to play until he was 41 years old to catch Rice.

* Rice had 22,895 yards receiving - Irvin had 11,904.
Irvin would have had to average 1,374 yards a season for 8 more seasons (20 total - like Jerry ), to catch Jerry's yardage total. Pretty steep for anyone, much less a guy reaching the later stages of his career as Irvin was.

* Rice had 197 receiving TD's - Irvin had 65
Irvin would have had to average 16.5 TD's a season for 8 more seasons (20 total - like Jerry ) to catch Jerry's TD total. IMPOSSIBLE for anyone, much less a guy reaching the later stages of his career as Irvin was. Hell, Irvin only had ONE double digit TD season and Jerry had 9.

* Rice had his last two 1,000+ yard seasons (1,139 & 1,211 respectively) at ages 39 and 40
Has anyone ever done that before? Has anyone ever been capable? Do you really think Irvin could have done that?

* Jerry was named to 13 Pro-bowls - Irvin 5.
Irvin would have had to be named to the Pro-Bowl and EVERY ONE of his final 8 seasons (again, the number to equal Rice's 20 years) to catch Rice.


FACE IT DRAGON, THIS IS A NO-CONTEST SITUATION

 

[dargonking999]

* Longevity is part of greatness - Jerry played 20 years and Irvin 12.
Irvin would have had to play until he was 41 years old to catch Rice.

* Rice had 22,895 yards receiving - Irvin had 11,904.
Irvin would have had to average 1,374 yards a season for 8 more seasons (20 total - like Jerry ), to catch Jerry's yardage total. Pretty steep for anyone, much less a guy reaching the later stages of his career as Irvin was.

* Rice had 197 receiving TD's - Irvin had 65
Irvin would have had to average 16.5 TD's a season for 8 more seasons (20 total - like Jerry ) to catch Jerry's TD total. IMPOSSIBLE for anyone, much less a guy reaching the later stages of his career as Irvin was. Hell, Irvin only had ONE double digit TD season and Jerry had 9.

* Rice had his last two 1,000+ yard seasons (1,139 & 1,211 respectively) at ages 39 and 40
Has anyone ever done that before? Has anyone ever been capable? Do you really think Irvin could have done that?

* Jerry was named to 13 Pro-bowls - Irvin 5.
Irvin would have had to be named to the Pro-Bowl and EVERY ONE of his final 8 seasons (again, the number to equal Rice's 20 years) to catch Rice.


FACE IT DRAGON, THIS IS A NO-CONTEST SITUATION

It's dargon.

and i said comparable

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Deion is a lock, as is Green IMO. Who is more of a lock? Well, it's Deion without a doubt. Why? Aside from being a Cowboy, he was also a 49er. Honestly guys, all of you should be pistol whipped for not identifying this fact and recognizing it as an overiding variable in this discussion.

:laugh2:

Seriously thou, Darrell Green was a great player but Deion was a once in a lifetime player. If I were going to pick the best CB I've ever seen, I would probably take Rod Woodson over Deion or Green but as stricktly a cover CB, Deion was the best I've ever seen.

Both should be first ballot players IMO.

 

[Stautner]

It's dargon.

and i said comparable

I apologize for the misspelling dargon.

Now, as for being "comparable".

First you suggested that had Irvin stayed healthy there would have been a REAL DEBATE as to who was better - even suggesting that between the two Irvin was more the one that made "every catch count"

Now it is merely "comparable" now that we know the numbers don't match up.

But even in that context, had Irvin maintained the same averages for 8 more years to equal Rice's 20 years, he would still have fallen 3,055 yards and 89 TD's short of Rice.

And the reality is that late in his career, as he got closer to age 40 and beyond age 40 - he likely wouldn't have been able to maintain the same averages, so it would probably be more like 4,000-5,000 yards and 100 TD's short.

Still a great career, but not worth of a real debate when compared to Rice.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I apologize for the misspelling dargon.

Now, as for being "comparable".

First you suggested that had Irvin stayed healthy there would have been a REAL DEBATE as to who was better - even suggesting that between the two Irvin was more the one that made "every catch count"

Now it is merely "comparable" now that we know the numbers don't match up.

But even in that context, had Irvin maintained the same averages for 8 more years to equal Rice's 20 years, he would still have fallen 3,055 yards and 89 TD's short of Rice.

And the reality is that late in his career, as he got closer to age 40 and beyond age 40 - he likely wouldn't have been able to maintain the same averages, so it would probably be more like 4,000-5,000 yards and 100 TD's short.

Still a great career, but not worth of a real debate when compared to Rice.

I agree. I don't think there's any question. However, for a time, I do believe that Irvin was the best WR in the NFL, including Rice. Over the span of each players career, it is not debatable but for a specific time frame, I do believe Irvin was better then Rice.

 

[Hostile]

I think we would be asking that question in a real debate, if Irvin never went down with that neck injury. He was "The Playmaker" for a reason. Rice is a great WR, just as Irvin was. But Irvin was the guy who always made the catch, ran 16 yard slant on 3rd and 15, and a 11 yard slant on 2nd and 10.

Is he better than Rice? The opinion is yours. But if you look at the games. Irvin was always dominate. whether he got 10 catches, or 1. He made every catch count.

I'm sorry Dargon but there is no debate. By all means ask Michael Irvin himself. Jerry Rice is the best football player to ever strap on a helmet regardless of position. It isn't even close.

 

[Twyst]

I agree. I don't think there's any question. However, for a time, I do believe that Irvin was the best WR in the NFL, including Rice. Over the span of each players career, it is not debatable but for a specific time frame, I do believe Irvin was better then Rice.

Absolutely agree.


Now here is the million dollar question. If you could have Michael irvin at the top of his game or Jerry rice at the top of his game for 1 season, which one do you take?









I take randy moss

 

[tomson75]

Don't have time to read the whole thread, but here's my take..

While I think Green is a sure thign first ballot HOFr, I think Sanders is moreso.

Arguably the best CB ever, Sanders also was one of the NFL's most versatile players. He was one of the most dangerous return men ever, and don't forget about his reveiving ability...remember when Irvin was suspended? Not many players in the league could've done that. Including Green.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Absolutely agree.


Now here is the million dollar question. If you could have Michael irvin at the top of his game or Jerry rice at the top of his game for 1 season, which one do you take?









I take randy moss

Depends on the offense but I'd probably take Irvin. If we're talking any WR ever, for just one season, I'd probably take Rice in 87.

65 Catches, 1078 yards, 16.6 YPC, 22 TDs.