Who is the better... Brady or Aikman?

[ringmaster]

Good to be around smart football fans overall who know football. I posted something similar in a popular forum that deals with football and media and flamed because today's football player is "bigger, faster, and stronger" than they were 10 years ago. Plus, I was told that today's league is much better and more difficult because the "competition is better".

I thought that was a unique was to look at a watered down, bordering on boring, league.

I don't think you can compare Aikman and Brady because they come from different eras in the league.

I think Aikman is never given ENOUGH credit for the 90's dynasty and Brady is given TOO MUCH credit for NE.

I have never actually been that impressed with Brady, he does not look good under pressure at all, but his O-line and a weak league saves him from that.

I have never seen someone as accurate as Aikman, especially on the deep out. I don't think Brady could make that throw more than 3 out of 10 times.

I am also amazed that Brady is deemed the next Montana, another overrated player who benefitted from an excellent system that took the league by storm at the time.

Aikman was a smart football player who was more of a leader than he is given credit. He found his perfect fit in an offense that he thrived in with a receiver who would put his body on the line to catch the ball...it also did not hurt at all to have the NFL's all time rusher lined up behind him. Which is why Aikman has 3 Super Bowl rings and did not pull a Payton Manning or Dan Marino.

Very intelligent analysis my friend every QB, need a system that is taliored to their strengths.

But the most overrated analysis of any QB, is yardage, TDs, and fourth quarter comebacks take Peyton Manning, for example sure he's one of the NFL's best passers but how can some media prognosticators, and some casual Cowboys fans rate him higher than Aikman, yeah he has jaw dropping stats but they totally ignore his failings in the playoffs in which Troy, thrived off of any QB, can't regardless of the talent around him win a SB, does Joey Harrington, ring a bell to some of these casual fans.

No one is denying Tom Brady, he is a special QB, just like Troy, was a special QB, hell what's next Ryan Leaf, is a better QB, than Aikman, based on the deep ball or Michael Vick, is a better overall QB, yeah based on his scrambling ability.

Troy, had the talent to play anywhere he wanted in the NFL, he was a textbook QB, with textbook mechanics there was a link a while back where Archie Manning, broke down some film on Aikman, and he said that if Aikman, was in a pass first offense no doubt in his mind that Troy, would throw 30, to 40 tds a season based on his pinpoint accuracy.

Good points coming from a fan who pays attention.

 

[ringmaster]

Then again SB wins are a team accomplishment not an individual accomplishment.

Yeah that is true it is a team accomplishment it takes commitment from everyone from the coaches to the players.

 

[Doomsday101]

Yeah that is true it is a team accomplishment it takes commitment from everyone from the coaches to the players.

No doubt about. I think there is a lot more to rating a QB than how many rings he has. There is just no way I could claim Trent Dilfer a great QB just because he has a ring and same for some other QB's who have gotten a ring or 2. I think when you look at a QB you want to see that because of his play he makes his team better as well as the indiviual feats he has accomplished. A guy like Dilfer may have a ring but he is not close to being on the same level as Marino or Manning as far as that goes.

 

[ringmaster]

since when does yards passing have anything to do with throwing a deep ball? some of the QB's in WC offenses hardly ever threw the ball deep, but ran up large yardage totals because of the system they played in

Montana was an awesome player...Brady is a great QB too...but so is Troy Aikman...you cant just simply look at numbers however, as all three of these guys played in different times and in different systems...and if you think the SYSTEM a player goes into doesnt matter, you are arguing for nothing

David

On the money with that one the system is just as important as the player.

I loved Montana, when he was playing he was just as responsible as Bill Walsh, the architect of the WCO, for making it work on the field when you look up WCO, Montana's picture will be right next to it.

Like I say that every QB, regardless of who it is need a system to thrive in and the players that the coach put out on the field is equally important as well.

 

[ringmaster]

No doubt about. I think there is a lot more to rating a QB than how many rings he has. There is just no way I could claim Trent Dilfer a great QB just because he has a ring and same for some other QB's who have gotten a ring or 2. I think when you look at a QB you want to see that because of his play he makes his team better as well as the indiviual feats he has accomplished. A guy like Dilfer may have a ring but he is not close to being on the same level as Marino or Manning as far as that goes.

That's true too but we all know that Baltimore's defense is the reason for that SB, not their offense as a matter of fact it really sucked in 2000 and that offense had the likes of Shannon Sharpe, one of the best TEs to ever play the game, and a promising Jamal Lewis.

Dilfer, is no Manning, Brady, Aikman, or Marino even that SB, Kurt Warner, won in 1999, he's not nearly the QB, Aikman was because the Rams offense was/is QB friendly any decent QB would thrive in it.

I guess to some casual fans Warner, and Bulger too are better QBs than Aikman.

 

[Doomsday101]

That's true too but we all know that Baltimore's defense is the reason for that SB, not their offense as a matter of fact it really sucked in 2000 and that offense had the likes of Shannon Sharpe, one of the best TEs to ever play the game, and a promising Jamal Lewis.

Dilfer, is no Manning, Brady, Aikman, or Marino even that SB, Kurt Warner, won in 1999, he's not nearly the QB, Aikman was because the Rams offense was/is QB friendly any decent QB would thrive in it.

I guess to some casual fans Warner, and Bulger too are better QBs than Aikman.

I agree but it also shows that getting a ring does not make a QB great which is what I was getting at. I think you have to take a lot of things into account when rating a QB and 1 of the most important to me is consistency, great QB's produce year in and year out over a period of time. I think the same holds true with other position. Can you do it week in and week out? Can you string together years of quality play? The ring is the icing on the cake and what gets a lot of notoriety for players but it is still something that takes an entire team to accomplish.

 

[dbair1967]

Dan Marino and Peyton Manning ....better than both Aikman and Brady

I'd take Aikman and Brady over Manning and Marino

and I'll beat your team 75-80% of the time, if not more

David

 

[calico]

So Aikman was better than Montana now? You blew your entire argument with that comparison Up until then, you almost had me convinced. As far as deep balls go, Brady is much better than Aikman ever was. The man just had 4,300yds passing compared to Aikman's best at 3,600yds. I'm sure that was all yards after catch though

I actually think Brady and Aikman are very close. Unless Brady wins a couple more SBs, then he'll get the nod. But comparing Aikman to Montana is foolish. Montana was a much better QB.

Also, I don't think you can say that Dallas' system sucked vs. New England and SF. Irvin and E. Smith are lightyears better than any receiver and rb that Brady has ever had. I think that is putting down the entire team and coaches just to pump up your boy Aikman.

No, I just think that Montana was overrated because of his system. I never stated that Aikman was better than Montana. I was just meaning to say that Brady is a bit overrated, IMO, like Montana was, again IMO.

Aikman never had to rack up the passing yards because of the run game with Emmitt Smith. Hell, during the SB years, Troy almost stopped throwing entirely during the second half of some games because they were decided at halftime. Brady does/did not have a running game that came close to what Dallas had in the 90's.

I don't care how many yards a QB threw for. I care about how a QB handles a team and how many positive plays they make. Can they handle pressure, bounce back after INTs, motivate teammates, make smart throws, etc... Aikman fit this perfectly until late in his career when he tried to do too much with his injuries and weaker teammates.

As for Joe Montana, I think he is a top 10 QB, no doubt. I just take issue when he is annointed as the all time great when he fit a system that inflates a QB's passing yards and completion percentage (See also Steve Young). I know I am in the minority on this, but Tom Brady is a product of a watered down league and nothing more.

This whole argument reminds me of all the Barry Vs. Emmitt polls. It is apples and oranges IMO. Barry would lose 15 yards before gaining 25. He hurt the flow of the offense more than he helped it. Emmitt always went forward. Barry would ignore wide open holes and dance around to his own delight while Emmitt was the work horse who just continued to pound inside. You can't compare them as equals since they did different things.

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

People ...can anyone spell H O F ! AIKMAN ...no questions asked!

As an Eagle fan Aikman has paid his dues. Brady has Not been baptised by fire like Aikman. No, I'm not talking about the number of Superbowl victories either quaterback has obtained. ...but

... if I was, I have to mention that ...Aikman once held the Super Bowl record for highest completion percentage -- a record for highest completion % in the postseason ..uncertain if Brady beat that record or not (I'm sure someone will tell me if I'm wrong).

...if I was talking about accuracy ...perhaps some of you may have heard the story about when Aikman was in Valley Ranch a player placed a soda can on his own head and dared Aikman to knock it off his head...uncertain about the entire story, but I understand that Aikman did knock the can off of the guys head with a football from a considerable distance away.

I've always followed Aikman, Dorsett and a Novachek. Brady just doesn't come close. I also think defenses were more aggressive in trying to attack quarterbacks in Aikmans time; not to say that Brady hasn't been sacked a time or two, but in Aikman's case, his career was shortened because of injuries (I know how devastating
injuries can be to a QB and his team )

I just don't hear Brady's name among Meridith, White, Aikman...or even Manning (you know which one) for that matter!

Hands down ...Aikman! Tough as nails ...I don't think Brady is tough enough to keep getting back up time after time (of course Brady hasn't been put to that type of test yet).

That's how I see it, amd I'm sticking to my story.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Good to be around smart football fans overall who know football. I posted something similar in a popular forum that deals with football and media and flamed because today's football player is "bigger, faster, and stronger" than they were 10 years ago. Plus, I was told that today's league is much better and more difficult because the "competition is better".

I thought that was a unique was to look at a watered down, bordering on boring, league.

I don't think you can compare Aikman and Brady because they come from different eras in the league.

I think Aikman is never given ENOUGH credit for the 90's dynasty and Brady is given TOO MUCH credit for NE.

I have never actually been that impressed with Brady, he does not look good under pressure at all, but his O-line and a weak league saves him from that.

I have never seen someone as accurate as Aikman, especially on the deep out. I don't think Brady could make that throw more than 3 out of 10 times.

I am also amazed that Brady is deemed the next Montana, another overrated player who benefitted from an excellent system that took the league by storm at the time.

Aikman was a smart football player who was more of a leader than he is given credit. He found his perfect fit in an offense that he thrived in with a receiver who would put his body on the line to catch the ball...it also did not hurt at all to have the NFL's all time rusher lined up behind him. Which is why Aikman has 3 Super Bowl rings and did not pull a Payton Manning or Dan Marino.

Very good post, Calico. Although I rate Brady higher than you, you nailed it on Aikman and on the NFL of today.

But I am constantly amazed and astonished at the lack of respect Aikman gets, even from Cowboys fans. IMO a lot of the people are, like you suggest, younger posters who were too young to appreciate Aikman and assume that because the average weight and speed of players has gone up, the players are necessarily better now. It's not so.

 

[dbair1967]

Very good post, Calico. Although I rate Brady higher than you, you nailed it on Aikman and on the NFL of today.

But I am constantly amazed and astonished at the lack of respect Aikman gets, even from Cowboys fans. IMO a lot of the people are, like you suggest, younger posters who were too young to appreciate Aikman and assume that because the average weight and speed of players has gone up, the players are necessarily better now. It's not so.

good post....hits the nail on the head

David

 

[illone]

I'd give Brady the nod, but it's only slight. Aikman had a better oline and running game which really helped him, and Harper/Irvin/Novacek are far better than the unit Brady has worked with in the past.

 

[Pats Fan]

If you don't mind, could I jump in here for a minute.

As a 30 year season ticket holder of the Pats, I can honestly say that without Brady, the Pats would not have won any SB's. No doubt. Not even a discussion item.

What makes Brady special. It is an attitude. I will not lose. Period. I will not lose. I am not afraid, or nervous, just darn mad if I start losing. I will not lose. The other quality he has that many don't is the quick release -- and the ability to see the whole field quickly. OK, this guy is not open, who else, I don't have long. Nerves of steel, fighting spirit, and that accuarate quick release. That's what makes Brady special.

Aikman, bottom line the guy was Mr. Cool as well and one heck of a QB.

Who would I take, either of course.

 

[Pats Fan]

Oh, and any quick release QB can make an offensive line look great. Marino had that quality. Boom, the ball is gone. That was the negative with Bledsoe. No quick release and always looked at the primary receiver. Didn't think he knew what a secondary receiver was. TOO MUCH TIME HANGING ON TO THE BALL.

 

[Doomsday101]

If you don't mind, could I jump in here for a minute.

As a 30 year season ticket holder of the Pats, I can honestly say that without Brady, the Pats would not have won any SB's. No doubt. Not even a discussion item.

What makes Brady special. It is an attitude. I will not lose. Period. I will not lose. I am not afraid, or nervous, just darn mad if I start losing. I will not lose. The other quality he has that many don't is the quick release -- and the ability to see the whole field quickly. OK, this guy is not open, who else, I don't have long. Nerves of steel, fighting spirit, and that accuarate quick release. That's what makes Brady special.

Aikman, bottom line the guy was Mr. Cool as well and one heck of a QB.

Who would I take, either of course.

Good answer. I feel the same I would take either guy any day of the week. Both are great leaders and very talented ball players. I'm not a Pats fan but I do enjoy watching Tom Brady play the game

 

[gbrittain]

I'd give Brady the nod, but it's only slight. Aikman had a better oline and running game which really helped him, and Harper/Irvin/Novacek are far better than the unit Brady has worked with in the past.

For the record Irvin is unquestionably great.

I am one of Jay's biggest fans, however, take a look at what Jay Novacek did the first five years of his career before Aikman. Not to say Jay was not good, because I believe he was indeed good. Novacek benefited more from having Aikman as a QB than Aikman benefited from having Novacek as a TE. Aikman would have been a HOF QB regardless of Novacek. If not for a timely release via Plan B by the Cardinals and subsequently picked up by the Cowboys, nobody would even know who Novacek is today.

Harper, again I am a big fan. He provided two images stuck permanently in my head:

The 49er NFC Championship game when Harper put the nail in their coffin to secure a place in Super Bowl XXVII.

Super Bowl XXVII when he caught the long pass for the TD and removed any doubt of Super Bowl XXVII from becoming a contest.

Harper accomplished exactly nothing once he left Dallas. Skins fans of all people should know this.

 

[gbrittain]

If you don't mind, could I jump in here for a minute.

As a 30 year season ticket holder of the Pats, I can honestly say that without Brady, the Pats would not have won any SB's. No doubt. Not even a discussion item.

What makes Brady special. It is an attitude. I will not lose. Period. I will not lose. I am not afraid, or nervous, just darn mad if I start losing. I will not lose. The other quality he has that many don't is the quick release -- and the ability to see the whole field quickly. OK, this guy is not open, who else, I don't have long. Nerves of steel, fighting spirit, and that accuarate quick release. That's what makes Brady special.

Aikman, bottom line the guy was Mr. Cool as well and one heck of a QB.

Who would I take, either of course.

Very good post. Of course I am partial to Aikman...him being a Cowboy and all. However, Brady is indeed a great QB in his own right.

Love to hear from other teams sensible fans. Post a little more.

 

[The Duke]

Aikman is punished for not being selfish and demanding more throws a game and less Emmitt running. He could have acted like a spoiled brat (see TO and many many others) and demanded more and caused a real disruption on the team and prevented them from winning like they did. His attitude and unselfishness should RAISE his stock as one of the greatest ever precisely because he was unselfish and showed the mark of a TRUE LEADER, but instead idiot fans only look at the stats and they have the stupidity to say Troy lacked leadership. Favre/Young were put in this position with pass happy teams. Only in his old age would super ego Elway allow a running and presto 2 Super Bowl wins. Aikman always said he was driven by the championships and not stats...true champ.

Also, it is quite significant that he was as sharp and productive as he was with so few attempts per game. It's harder for the QB to do that than get warmed up and throw alot of attempts each game.

Next, you cannot blow off the issue of playing against tougher competition versus a parity watered down league. Football is a game of inches. A QB against better competition has less room for mistakes and the weaker QBs really start to stick out like a sore thumb. Its a BIG difference playing in the playoffs against teams like San Fran that has pro bowlers at each position than Brady facing the Colts defense. Honestly, how many Colts defensive players could have Started for San Fran '92-'95, what maybe Sweeney. Look at it this way, I would take my chances with the '92 Philadelphia team with Reggie White, or the Green Bay teams Aikman's team beat in the playoffs, or the San Fran '92, '93, '95 would have been repeat champions in the league today. ..or Buffalo Bills with Kelly... Several playoff teams would win the Super Bowl today against the same Brady led New England Patriots.

People make it sound like Aikman was no better than Trent Dilfer on the Ravens being a bus driver for a great team. The Ravens just about won inspite of Dilfer's play. They axed him in the off season. Make no mistake about it, the Cowboys with all their talent could not have beat such great competition and won multiple Super Bowls without Aikman raising his game to near perfection for four years in the playoffs. Stop being googoo gaagaa over the yards statistics and look at the lack of interceptions in those four playoff years, completion percentage, and the other intangibles that TRUE KNOWLEDGEABLE football fans pick up on that the average moron does not see when they watch the game. Aikman was defined by his playoff appearances. Look at the 90s best and he is neck and neck coin toss with who was the best. Brady takes a back seat in my opinion to all of the 90s great QBs cion flip with Favre, Aikman, Elway, Young, Marino. Then Brady.



90's Playoff Passer Rating
1. B. Favre: 90.3
2. T. Aikman: 88.9
3. S. Young: 85.6
4. J. Elway 84.9

90s Super Bowl TD to INT Ratio
1. S. Young: 6 TDs, 0 int's
2t. T. Aikman: 5 TDs, 1 int
2t. B. Favre: 1 int
4. J. Elway: 1 TD, 2 int's

90's Super Bowl Passer Rating
1. S. Young: 134.8 in 1 game (versus a very weak San Diego Team)
2. T. Aikman: 111.9 in 3 games (more chances to lower this high level of play in 3 games)
3. B. Favre: 97.6 in 2 games (1 he lost with his bad play...overthrows)
4. J. Elway: 77.3 in 2 games

 

[johnnycomelately]

If you don't mind, could I jump in here for a minute.

As a 30 year season ticket holder of the Pats, I can honestly say that without Brady, the Pats would not have won any SB's. No doubt. Not even a discussion item.

What makes Brady special. It is an attitude. I will not lose. Period. I will not lose. I am not afraid, or nervous, just darn mad if I start losing. I will not lose. The other quality he has that many don't is the quick release -- and the ability to see the whole field quickly. OK, this guy is not open, who else, I don't have long. Nerves of steel, fighting spirit, and that accuarate quick release. That's what makes Brady special.

Aikman, bottom line the guy was Mr. Cool as well and one heck of a QB.

Who would I take, either of course.

All of those years as a Patriot season ticket holder and sitting on those aluminum benches in Schaefer/Sullivan/Foxboro Stadium watching so many losing seasons has made your analytical skills a bit suspect. What kind of argument is it to say that because Brady gets "darn mad" if he loses is what caused the Patriots to win the SB?

Do you think that Jim Plunkett, Steve Grogan, and Drew Bledsoe just said "ah losing is ok with me...I kind of like it"???? Don't be ridiculous.

I am not doubting Brady's ability and some of the clutch plays he's made; but do you really think that Marino or Manning would not have won a SB on those Patriots teams? You state that the Pats would not have won the SB without Brady. I say they would have but it all depends on who played instead of Brady. I happen to think the Pats still would have won if McNabb, Manning, Green, McNair, Favre, just to name a few, wore the flying Elvis helmet instead of Brady. SO IT IS A DISCUSSION ITEM.

 

[ringmaster]

If you don't mind, could I jump in here for a minute.

As a 30 year season ticket holder of the Pats, I can honestly say that without Brady, the Pats would not have won any SB's. No doubt. Not even a discussion item.

What makes Brady special. It is an attitude. I will not lose. Period. I will not lose. I am not afraid, or nervous, just darn mad if I start losing. I will not lose. The other quality he has that many don't is the quick release -- and the ability to see the whole field quickly. OK, this guy is not open, who else, I don't have long. Nerves of steel, fighting spirit, and that accuarate quick release. That's what makes Brady special.

Aikman, bottom line the guy was Mr. Cool as well and one heck of a QB.

Who would I take, either of course.

You my friend, make casual Cowboys fans look bad it's sad that you a Patriot fan, gives Aikman, his due as a great QB then you're non biased toward starting either Troy, or Tom.

What makes it hard for some casual Cowboys fans is that they're still *****ing about Aikman, not throwing for a gazillion yds and 1,000 td passes and the team won 3 SBs with him under center but yet they still complain and this is 13 yrs later and they still don't appreciate him.

Like I said that Aikman, and Brady are one in the same both of is/was classic quarterbacks, with uncanny accuracy both could/can play anywhere in the league with their abilities.

Only difference though is that Brady, was a gem 6th round pick in 2000, and he came out of college with some question marks and that is where I compare to Montana, when he came out of Norte Dame with alot of question marks by so called "experts", these two QBs, have a total of 7 SB rings.

Aikman, on the other hand was a #1 pick out of UCLA, in 1989 but that's something else the casual fans should realize is that Aikman, lived up to the hype being a #1 overall pick alot of other first round QBs didn't.:lombardi: