Who's Laughing at Travis Frederick Now?

[khiladi]

It doesn't say anywhere in that article that Stephen said they were set on Floyd at all. It merely says that the scouts had him ranked without taking into consideration the new scheme. Definitely a breakdown that shouldn't have happened, but the decision makers weren't "set" on taking Floyd (unless I missed it somehow).

Because Dallas goes BPA... As I posted in multiple articles, Stephen Jones and Garrett have always re-iterated the point that they go BPA and the view is that these BPAs can play in any situation. This statement was made in the context of surprise in the war-room and the confusion that existed.

 

[gimmesix]

Sure they where, and then they waited til pick 203 to address the Center position they so frantically wanted to address.

That's really irrelevant since we don't know when they would have taken Frederick. The Ravens easily could have seen Frederick as a late first-rounder and the next available center as being much lower rated.

Your argument is based on your perceived value of Frederick, which is not equal to Dallas' perceived value or, apparently, Baltimore's. Again, the scouting department did a good job because their perceived value of him was late first round and he has proven worthy of that pick.

You bring up the argument of Tony Romo ... so let's look at that. If Dallas had had him rated as a first-round pick, then it would have made sense for the Cowboys to have taken him there despite the ridicule they would have received. He would have proven that the Cowboys' estimation was correct.

Or we could look at a player like Shante Carver, whom Dallas estimate to be worthy of a first-round pick. The Cowboys were criticized for that pick and the criticism turned out to be warranted because he proved to not be worth the pick.

Personally, I applaud any time the team takes a player earlier that the supposed experts' rating and he turns out to be worthy of the pick because it makes me feel the Cowboys' scouts are doing their jobs. I like steals in the later rounds, but I like it much more when the scouts simply get it right because that's the kind of scouts we need to build this team through the draft.

 

[AsthmaField]

Because Dallas goes BPA... As I posted in multiple articles, Stephen Jones and Garrett have always re-iterated the point that they go BPA and the view is that these BPAs can play in any situation. This statement was made in the context of surprise in the war-room and the confusion that existed.

Right, but they caught the mistake of Floyd being rated too highly. Had Floyd been gone already, we never would have heard about it but he was there and was (wrongly) the highest rated player. The head scout (Ciskowski) was apparently too unprepared to realize he wasn't a great fit here (hell, even I knew what to look for when you run a 43 vs 34), but the coaches caught it and they were never really going to make the choice.

I don't think that Stephen was ever just about to write Floyd's name on a card and Marinelli came running up and said he didn't want him because he wasn't quick twitch enough. I think it had been caught earlier, like maybe when Dallas went on the clock and they looked to see who was left. Maybe even earlier than that. I just think that it wasn't conveyed to Ciskowski until the pick was made or maybe even after the pick was made, so he didn't understand passing on him.

They undoubtedly made the correct decision, so it is pretty much water under the bridge. I just wanted to state that I don't think there was any way that Dallas was "about" to make the Floyd pick and got saved at the last second by Marinelli.

 

[gimmesix]

It wasn't a reach. They had him as a second-round draft pick.

They had him as a second-round draft pick, but the No. 22 player overall and took him 31st. That's why it was a good value for Dallas.

(Just pointing that out for those who might think he should have been taken in the second.)

Dallas had 19 players rated as first-round worthy.

The higher-rated players available before Dallas traded the 18th pick were Sharrif Floyd, Xavier Rhodes, Kenny Vaccaro, Cordelle Patterson, Tyler Eifert, Bjorn Werner, DeAndre Hopkins and Justin Pugh.

There were no higher-rated players available than Frederick when Dallas picked at 31. Masterful job by Dallas IMO, since it also got its next highest-rated player Terrance Williams through the trade. (Technically, though, it should have taken Williams in the second round based on its board, but Escobar was next on the board with Eric Reid already gone so it wasn't really a reach to take him first if Dallas thought Williams had a better chance of falling ... which he apparently did.)

 

[Sage3030]

Seeing as how the draft is more like eBay, I'd say paying the buy now price of 25k was our choice instead of hoping we can get him for 15k while competing with 31 other bidders.

He was worth 150k all along.

 

[DFWJC]

I will still and will always say it was a serious reach...

If you buy a car worth 15k dollars for 25k dollars and it runs great and runs for 10 years... you still paid 10k to much for it.

No...they paid the 25K because they new the car had at least that much stashed in the trunk.

 

[ConstantReboot]

Well, yeah. But we're talking about overpaying for a product or item. If a person is overpaying for a product or item, that's not very wise is it? Which gets back to our discussion. If Frederick would have been there in the second round and the Cowboys took him in the first, wouldn't that have been unwise? Of course, we'll never know that. But the concept of overpaying for a product/item or overestimating the value of a product/item isn't a very wise course of action.



I agree. And you see that happening on draft day. Teams needing to draft a quarterback that has a blue-chip value attached to him will get in a bidding war. If a team has two 1st round draft picks compared to a team with one 1st round draft pick, the team with two is going to win the bidding war because it has more to give. But I don't think we're talking about the Cowboys being in that kind of situation for Frederick.



I don't disagree with anything you've said here, which is why I said we really can't know whether Frederick would have been around. I guess my point is to highlight why some Cowboys fans were initially concerned about the pick. Many felt he could have been had later, and we "overpaid" to get him. But that doesn't matter now. He was just what the Cowboys needed. We needed "nastiness" on the offensive line. And we've got that in full now.

 

[tyke1doe]

Seeing as how the draft is more like eBay, I'd say paying the buy now price of 25k was our choice instead of hoping we can get him for 15k while competing with 31 other bidders.

He was worth 150k all along.

 

[Nirvana]

http://www.nbcdfw.com/blogs/blue-star/Russell-Wilson-Remembers-Frederick-Fondly-278675621.html

good read

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

Watching this Oline is fun, they do everything at a high level pass, run blocking, pulling ect. but all 5 know how to get there hands on at least one person per play, when you have 5 guys getting a piece of 2 people during a play the results on opposing Defenses is a thing of beuty.

Watching how this OL can force their will has been eye popping.

 

[dfense]

I will still and will always say it was a serious reach...

If you buy a car worth 15k dollars for 25k dollars and it runs great and runs for 10 years... you still paid 10k to much for it.

There's a flaw in your argument. Who said Fredrick was only worth a third rounder? The same people who said Claiborne was a shut down corner?

Maybe, just maybe, Frederick was undervalued by the so called experts. Just like Tom Brady, Russell Wilson, Even Tony Romo was undervalued in the draft.

Tavon Austin, can't miss clone of Percy Harvin drafted 8th overall. 458 total career yards.

Terrence Williams 7th WR taken in third round 986 total career yards.

You think the Rams might have overvalued what has turned out to be a 15k car?

Just be thankful the Cowboys hit gold on all three 1st round lineman. Parcell's couldn't hit on any lineman he tried to draft.

 

[dfense]

Only if the car wasn't worth 25k to you, which Frederick clearly was to Dallas.

It would have been different if Dallas had not traded down and instead took Frederick with that pick when his draft value on their board was in the early 20s. That would have been a reach that still would have turned out to be a good one.

Instead, Dallas took Frederick around the point it had him slotted, so credit should be given to the scouting department for slotting him there instead of in the 40s like those who think "it was a serious reach" did.

The only valid knock on the pick was not taking Shariff Floyd when the scouts had him slotted much higher than Frederick, but then everyone would be complaining now about Floyd not being worth the pick and how we should have taken someone like Frederick.

Funny, I've not heard Sheriff's name since the draft. He must be tearing it up.

 

[jjktkk]

I will still and will always say it was a serious reach...

If you buy a car worth 15k dollars for 25k dollars and it runs great and runs for 10 years... you still paid 10k to much for it.

Feebly trying to compare buying cars to the Dallas Cowboys reaching for a player is absurd. How can a pro bowl talent be a reach? The Cowboy's scouting dept. had a 1st round grade on Frederick, who is playing way above his draft pick. It would be a lot easier if you would just eat your crow. Ty it with hot sauce.

 

[khiladi]

They had him as a second-round draft pick, but the No. 22 player overall and took him 31st. That's why it was a good value for Dallas.

(Just pointing that out for those who might think he should have been taken in the second.)

Dallas had 19 players rated as first-round worthy.

The higher-rated players available before Dallas traded the 18th pick were Sharrif Floyd, Xavier Rhodes, Kenny Vaccaro, Cordelle Patterson, Tyler Eifert, Bjorn Werner, DeAndre Hopkins and Justin Pugh.

There were no higher-rated players available than Frederick when Dallas picked at 31. Masterful job by Dallas IMO, since it also got its next highest-rated player Terrance Williams through the trade. (Technically, though, it should have taken Williams in the second round based on its board, but Escobar was next on the board with Eric Reid already gone so it wasn't really a reach to take him first if Dallas thought Williams had a better chance of falling ... which he apparently did.)

I'm not doubting the pick. I'm glad JERRY passed on him. It's clear that he wasn't set on Floyd and went with the next pick. Great move.

 

[khiladi]

I just wanted to state that I don't think there was any way that Dallas was "about" to make the Floyd pick and got saved at the last second by Marinelli.

There was clearly confusion in the draft room. I think Jerry ultimately just said no at the last minute.

 

[EPL0c0]

How about a little appreciation for Stephen Jones? If the rumors are true about Jerry wanting Manziel and Stephen stepping in... THANK YOU, Stephen, THANK YOU. Zack Martin is playing solid great and is the Olineman Dallas needed

 

[Shotgun Dave]

Not as second year player - Pro Bowl gets reputation.

This is true, but what he DESERVES and what he GETS are two different things. I don't see how anyone could see his impact on our offense and not give him a nod - even if he's only a second year guy. Just my two cents...

 

[Crown Royal]

The purpose of the draft is not to acquire best-for-value players based on your pick. The purpose of the draft is to accumulate as many good players as possible and improve your talent pool. The argument about whether Frederick was a reach or value pick really has little impact on the ultimate goal, which is winning football games.

By the way, had we picked him later, we would have to address is contract within 2-3 years, as opposed to the 4-5 we are now afforded based on the CBA. To me, that is a good value based on his level of production .