Who's Laughing at Travis Frederick Now?

[MissouriCowboy]

Guy is balling and has a very high football Iq.

 

[ConstantReboot]

Good point.

Sometimes when investing and buying a stock, as i have done many times. As many others too.
I will wait for a stock to move up, show me it's making a move to increase and keep increasing. I'll put a buy limit order in.
So if it's going at $45, I'll put in an order to buy at $46. to be sure it's a real rise. not buy at $45 because it's lower, then only drop. But if hits 446, then the sale executes and i'm in

I may lose a $1 per share, but at least I'm more confident it will increase at that point.

That guys point is not valid. He's saying that

Thanks for the response.
Actually, in the Facebook-Instagram acquisition, Facebook wasn't the only bidder for Instagram. Facebook basically established the market for Instagram.
That's a bit different than a particular item having a set price. But, if several investors are bidding for a particular item, then, of course, that items' value will increase.

Second, I should have offered a caveat. Extremely rich people aren't concerned with overpaying for something because losing money doesn't matter as much to them. However, for most people, they don't generally pay more for an item with a set value.

Third, you're focused on ROI. Of course, when you choose stocks or a draft pick, you're expecting a ROI. That goes without saying. The issue, however, is whether you can spend less on your initial investment so you can get more in the future. Why would you spend more on something that costs 15k when you can get it at 10k? You wouldn't ... unless, you're convinced that someone else is eyeing that item and you want it so bad that you'll overpay for it. And teams do that in the draft. But that's why I also said we really don't know who wanted Frederick or whether he would have been available when the Cowboys picked in the second round. So maybe the Cowboys figured someone was going to pick Frederick and overpaid for him. I'm okay with that because I don't know the alternative. He turned out to be a good pick. But that still doesn't negate the point that you don't overpay for a player if the consensus he's not worth a higher pick.

I have to disagree with you here. You may think that ONLY extremely rich people are the ones that only overspend. But the very poor also overspend as well. Thats one of the reasons why they are poor because they aren't frugal with their money.

As for Instagram, your right there was a bidding war. I believe that Google was in the running to purchase that company also. However, Facebook wasn't sure how much Google was going to spend to acquire Instagram. Facebook, fearful that Google might buy it before they did, pulled the trigger and overpaid.

The reason for that was because Zuckerberg was feared losing out on the opportunity so they were willing to overpay. It happens all the time to people, rich and poor and it happens quite a bit during the draft.

At that time Frederick was the best option we had at either guard or center. If we didn't use a first on him he might not last till the 2nd. Thus Jerry fearing that someone else might take him pulled the trigger in the 1st round. Was Frederick going to be there in the 2nd round? No one knows. All I know was that Jerry did the right thing and acted on his gut instincts. Because losing out on the opportunity to draft Frederick is a much greater fear for this team than to wait and see if he's still there in the 2nd round.

So what does this all mean? It means were all human. We say that you shouldn't overpay to get something. But all human beings do it all the time. When there is a fear of losing out on an opportunity the price of that item goes up. Thus the reason why Jerry selected Frederick in the first round. Yes you should not overpay while you can get it for less. However, was there a guarantee that Frederick was going to be there in the 2nd round? If the answer is "I don't know" than its worth spending a little more just to make sure we get it.

 

[waving monkey]

If we were to re do that draft today would Fredrick be around by the 31st pick?

Nope

 

[Outlaw Heroes]

You don't know whose argument I'm referring to, then you say I'm straw-manning. Do you understand the obvious contradiction in your statement?

If the argument you're imputing to others bears no reasonable resemblance to any argument made in this thread, I can rightly accuse you of straw-manning even without knowing to whose argument in particular you're referring.

Your confusion in thinking there's a contradiction there simply reinforces what you've already made clear in this thread: you struggle mightily with matters of logic.

 

[Manster68]

I think before Dallas drafted Tyron Smith, Cowboy fans have been very skeptical when it comes to drafting offensive linemen. Doug Free is the only offensive lineman Dallas drafted that decade the Cowboys remotely hit on.

Personally, I think Doug Free has validated his 4th round selection from a smaller school in Northern Illinois. You cannot expect a 4th round lick from a directional school to be All Pro. I hope Dallas does not lose him.

Back to Frederick, the last Wisconsin lineman Dallas drafted was a total flop (Brewster). So I can understand people getting skeptical for that selection on draft day. I was one of them at first. As last season progressed, Frederick showed me that he would anchor this line for the next ten years.

 

[Idgit]

I think before Dallas drafted Tyron Smith, Cowboy fans have been very skeptical when it comes to drafting offensive linemen. Doug Free is the only offensive lineman Dallas drafted that decade the Cowboys remotely hit on.

Personally, I think Doug Free has validated his 4th round selection from a smaller school in Northern Illinois. You cannot expect a 4th round lick from a directional school to be All Pro. I hope Dallas does not lose him.

Back to Frederick, the last Wisconsin lineman Dallas drafted was a total flop (Brewster). So I can understand people getting skeptical for that selection on draft day. I was one of them at first. As last season progressed, Frederick showed me that he would anchor this line for the next ten years.

Nagy was the Wis guy. And Free was a successful pick by any definition, I agree.

 

[visionary]

Awesome stuff! Thanks!

And I was going to ask the question of who's playing center better than Frederick? but this article beat me to it.

Those moves are looking like genius at this point, and a front office that gets it's "fair share of abuse" deserves tons of credit for them.

I agree
I have been as critical as any of our FO but willingly give them all the credit in the world for building the OL and bringing in linehan

 

[visionary]

Jerry is doing some laughing at the doubters lately it seems.

I am no fan of Jerry but I will gladly let him laugh if the team is winning

That is ALL I care about

 

[DogFace]

Called pro-bowl last week. Guess it's all pro!

 

[Jarv]

But your ROI is higher if you buy lower.... Give me Freddy in the Second and I'd be paying capital gains right now!

The problem with your argument is that you have no real proof Fred would have been around in round 2, whereas the argument from the other side states that he was indeed worth the spot he was taken at.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

I will still and will always say it was a serious reach...

If you buy a car worth 15k dollars for 25k dollars and it runs great and runs for 10 years... you still paid 10k to much for it.

here's the thing, you don't know if you could've bought that car for 15k. It may have been worth 15k, but all it takes is one buyer and the car is gone.

 

[Fletch]

Yeah I was definitely wrong about him pre-draft and right after.

You're haunted by your wrongness, aren't you?

 

[NickZepp]

Vehicles aren't people. They lose value after you use them practically all the time. Particularly with new cars. Maybe some classic mustle cars have more value now but most cars just lose value after use. Football players values change based on performance.

 

[Shotgun Dave]

I remember the criticism last year. I will still go with my prediction this year for him - Pro Bowl alternate.

Alternate? I think he's easily a starter.

 

[Joe Realist]

Alternate? I think he's easily a starter.

Not as second year player - Pro Bowl gets reputation.

 

[tyke1doe]

That guys point is not valid. He's saying that


I have to disagree with you here. You may think that ONLY extremely rich people are the ones that only overspend. But the very poor also overspend as well. Thats one of the reasons why they are poor because they aren't frugal with their money.

Well, yeah. But we're talking about overpaying for a product or item. If a person is overpaying for a product or item, that's not very wise is it? Which gets back to our discussion. If Frederick would have been there in the second round and the Cowboys took him in the first, wouldn't that have been unwise? Of course, we'll never know that. But the concept of overpaying for a product/item or overestimating the value of a product/item isn't a very wise course of action.

As for Instagram, your right there was a bidding war. I believe that Google was in the running to purchase that company also. However, Facebook wasn't sure how much Google was going to spend to acquire Instagram. Facebook, fearful that Google might buy it before they did, pulled the trigger and overpaid.

I agree. And you see that happening on draft day. Teams needing to draft a quarterback that has a blue-chip value attached to him will get in a bidding war. If a team has two 1st round draft picks compared to a team with one 1st round draft pick, the team with two is going to win the bidding war because it has more to give. But I don't think we're talking about the Cowboys being in that kind of situation for Frederick.

The reason for that was because Zuckerberg was feared losing out on the opportunity so they were willing to overpay. It happens all the time to people, rich and poor and it happens quite a bit during the draft.

At that time Frederick was the best option we had at either guard or center. If we didn't use a first on him he might not last till the 2nd. Thus Jerry fearing that someone else might take him pulled the trigger in the 1st round. Was Frederick going to be there in the 2nd round? No one knows. All I know was that Jerry did the right thing and acted on his gut instincts. Because losing out on the opportunity to draft Frederick is a much greater fear for this team than to wait and see if he's still there in the 2nd round.

So what does this all mean? It means were all human. We say that you shouldn't overpay to get something. But all human beings do it all the time. When there is a fear of losing out on an opportunity the price of that item goes up. Thus the reason why Jerry selected Frederick in the first round. Yes you should not overpay while you can get it for less. However, was there a guarantee that Frederick was going to be there in the 2nd round? If the answer is "I don't know" than its worth spending a little more just to make sure we get it.

I don't disagree with anything you've said here, which is why I said we really can't know whether Frederick would have been around. I guess my point is to highlight why some Cowboys fans were initially concerned about the pick. Many felt he could have been had later, and we "overpaid" to get him. But that doesn't matter now. He was just what the Cowboys needed. We needed "nastiness" on the offensive line. And we've got that in full now.

 

[Doomsdayblitz]

I live in Big Ten country, & had a chance to watch Frederick- his last two seasons in particular. Before the draft, I studied him meticulously, & found him to be the most complete interior offensive lineman in the nation. So, when the Cowboys turned the card in, I was elated. When I heard all of the noise about the 'Boys taking a "third round pick" in the 1st rd., I couldn't wait until he made them all look like fools. Dude is the smartest Center, & one of the brightest people in the NFL, along with being a great football player.

 

[tyke1doe]

If the argument you're imputing to others bears no reasonable resemblance to any argument made in this thread, I can rightly accuse you of straw-manning even without knowing to whose argument in particular you're referring.

That doesn't even make sense. If you don't know the arguments, then how can you know if it's a strawman? If you don't know who raised the issue and assume no one has made it, how does that constitute a strawman?

Anyway, we're talking about value. People are talking about the wisdom of paying 25k for a product worth 15k when you can get it at 15k. Yes, someone DID make that argument. Someone pointed to future profit to suggest paying 25k for something worth 15k is a wise investment if it yields 100k in the future. But it's not as wise as paying 15k and reaping 100k in the future because you keep 10k in your pocket. Please pay attention.

Your confusion in thinking there's a contradiction there simply reinforces what you've already made clear in this thread: you struggle mightily with matters of logic.

And your confusion is jumping into a conversation without reading the previous conversations for context then trying to say someone is employing a strawman. And you say I struggle with logic? At least I don't struggle as much with grammar and definitions. Then again, those aren't constructs of logic.

 

[khiladi]

Damn, well then it makes it even twice as impressive. Hitting on a reach, but not just any reach, a reach picked randomly out of hundreds of players.

It wasn't a reach. They had him as a second-round draft pick. Dallas' philosophy has been BPA. The problem was, they had already announced that they were going 4-3 back in January, with the addition of Marinelli and Kiffen. The excuse by Stephen, that things slip through the cracks because of a change in philosophy, when this team had well over 4 months to work their priorities and views on a player is what is an issue. How the scouting department and guys like Tom and Garrett, didn't really get a gage on the DCs is just an example of the structure of Jerry's world...

 

[khiladi]

Stephen isn't saying they were set on Floyd but that there was a disconnect between the coaches and the scouts when it came to the value of (Floyd) and the 1 technique.

Yes, he was. It's just a political way of talking about it. For four months, they knew they were going 4-3. It's just absurd to think Marinelli and Kiffen weren't consulted and 'things slipped through the cracks'. Like I said, Garrett and Stephen have always stated they go BPA and these type of guys can normally fit in any scheme. It's been reported their was confusion in the draft room, meaning the decision happened at the last minute by Jerry.