Who's more valueable to the team. Dez or DeMarco?

[KJJ]

It may take some luck I also think it takes vision on what you are trying to build.

Every team has a vision on what they're trying to build but it all comes down to the talent you have. I doubt a coach like Belichick who became successful on great defensive/ball control teams ever envisioned building a pass happy offense but the strength of his teams have been his QB. He saw what he had in Brady and built an offense around him with great receivers.

The Cowboys don't have the team around Romo enabling them to manage him like Seattle is able to manage Wilson. The Cowboys have had a vision for years to take pressure off Romo but they haven't been able to due to the lack of a running game and a poor defense. The running game has improved now it's up to the defense to step up.

 

[KJJ]

Here's an article along the lines of this discussion. What's interesting this article was back in June. We should take our own poll.

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2014...-cowboys-in-2014-dez-bryant-or-demarco-murray

 

[Doomsday101]

Every team has a vision on what they're trying to build but it all comes down to the talent you have. I doubt a coach like Belichick who became successful on great defensive/ball control teams ever envisioned building a pass happy offense but the strength of his teams have been his QB. He saw what he had in Brady and built an offense around him with great receivers.

The Cowboys don't have the team around Romo enabling them to manage him like Seattle is able to manage Wilson. The Cowboys have had a vision for years to take pressure off Romo but they haven't been able to due to the lack of a running game and a poor defense. The running game has improved now it's up to the defense to step up.

I don't see a lot of great WR around Brady, I see TE and I do see a team who ranked in the top 10 in rushing last season. I think Belicheck success is have fundamentally strong teams, teams who do not beat themselves. As for the Cowboys building an OL and a strong RB can give them the ability to play hardnosed ball this does not mean I want Ground Chuck but I want the strong running game to go along with a solid passing game. Defensively yes there is things that we need to do but I think we have the DC to do just that and some of the guys who are being written off I think will prove themselves to be better than the critics claim.

 

[KJJ]

I don't see a lot of great WR around Brady, I see TE and I do see a team who ranked in the top 10 in rushing last season. I think Belicheck success is have fundamentally strong teams, teams who do not beat themselves. As for the Cowboys building an OL and a strong RB can give them the ability to play hardnosed ball this does not mean I want Ground Chuck but I want the strong running game to go along with a solid passing game. Defensively yes there is things that we need to do but I think we have the DC to do just that and some of the guys who are being written off I think will prove themselves to be better than the critics claim.

Brady had Moss and Welker around him back in 07 as well as some other excellent receivers. I wasn't referring to his current receiving corp. He's become such a great QB through the years that he can make any receiver productive. Belichick has had some pass happy teams in NE that haven't been strong defensively and he's compensated by having a strong passing offense led by a great QB. That's certainly not what he envisioned when he arrived in NE but you have to work with what you have. The draft doesn't always pan out the way teams plan. For the Cowboys to play hardnosed ball they need a tough physical defense that can keep teams out of the endzone. Your defense dictates how you have to play offensively.

 

[Doomsday101]

Brady had Moss and Welker around him back in 07 as well as some other excellent receivers. I wasn't referring to his current receiving corp. He's become such a great QB through the years that he can make any receiver productive. Belichick has had some pass happy teams in NE that haven't been strong defensively and he's compensated by having a strong passing offense led by a great QB. That's certainly not what he envisioned when he arrived in NE but you have to work with what you have. The draft doesn't always pan out the way teams plan. For the Cowboys to play hardnosed ball they need a tough physical defense that can keep teams out of the endzone. Your defense dictates how you have to play offensively.

And Welker is gone to Denver Pats were not going to pay him and Moss was not around that long, by and large Brady has not had top rated WR. Frankly their SB teams were very good defensively but all of his teams have been sound fundamentally which is why they continue to stay in the running and No doubt Brady is great. As for the comment Dallas needs to have a physical defense? I agree and I think we have some of those parts on the team with a lot more work to do but I think it is a direction the Cowboys need to move to.

 

[KJJ]

And Welker is gone to Denver Pats were not going to pay him and Moss was not around that long, by and large Brady has not had top rated WR. Frankly their SB teams were very good defensively but all of his teams have been sound fundamentally which is why they continue to stay in the running and No doubt Brady is great. As for the comment Dallas needs to have a physical defense? I agree and I think we have some of those parts on the team with a lot more work to do but I think it is a direction the Cowboys need to move to.

Welker and Moss were around long enough for NE to be one of the top 5 highest scoring teams in NFL history. Brady has had some excellent receivers but when you have a future HOF QB they don't need top rated WR's. Elway never had great WR's but he made them productive. Marino had Duper and Clayton two receivers who wouldn't have amounted to much playing with a lesser QB. Welker wasn't anything special in Miami until he came to NE and Brady became his QB. He's been blessed with Brady and Manning. NE ranked 31st in total defense in 2011 when they reached the SB.

 

[Doomsday101]

Stats tend to mislead. Yardage your right 31st. Points allowed they ranked much higher and were 2nd in INTs and 2nd in forced fumbles. Yards in my view do not equal points.
We both agree on Brady

 

[KJJ]

Stats tend to mislead. Yardage your right 31st. Points allowed they ranked much higher and were 2nd in INTs and 2nd in forced fumbles. Yards in my view do not equal points.
We both agree on Brady

The Pats gave up 411.1 yards per game in 2011 which was the 3rd worst in NFL history at that time. They ranked 15th that season in points allowed which was middle of the pack. It was their offense overcoming their defense that got NE to the SB but like with Denver last season NE's defense caught up with them in the SB. The Packers gave up the second most yards in NFL history that season and ended up 15-1 due to Rodgers MVP season but their D also caught up with them in the playoffs. The 3 highest scoring teams in NFL history (1950 Rams/2013 Broncos/2007 Pats) all lost championship games those seasons.

 

[Doomsday101]

The Pats gave up 411.1 yards per game in 2011 which was the 3rd worst in NFL history at that time. They ranked 15th that season in points allowed which was middle of the pack. It was their offense overcoming their defense that got NE to the SB but like with Denver last season NE's defense caught up with them in the SB.

yes and they were 2nd in ints and forced fumbles. Yards to me is not what makes a defense the ability to keep the score down (they gave up just over 21 a game) and getting the ball back into the hands of the offense. Not saying they were great and in the end Pats lost to NY.

However NE has nothing to do with anything we were talking about. I think Dallas very well could build a balanced hardnosed team. garrett take crap but fact he we have the OL, we have the WR's and much more has to be done on defense. I think we have some players on defense who can help make the difference even some of the player that some fans have written off. We will see how it plays out

 

[KJJ]

yes and they were 2nd in ints and forced fumbles. Yards to me is not what makes a defense the ability to keep the score down (they gave up just over 21 a game) and getting the ball back into the hands of the offense. Not saying they were great and in the end Pats lost to NY.

However NE has nothing to do with anything we were talking about. I think Dallas very well could build a balanced hardnosed team. garrett take crap but fact he we have the OL, we have the WR's and much more has to be done on defense. I think we have some players on defense who can help make the difference even some of the player that some fans have written off. We will see how it plays out

However they still ranked 15th in points allowed. You can spin it anyway you want but that was not a good defense. The Cowboys have a long way to go defensively to build a balanced hardnosed team. You have to be great defensively to build the type of team you're talking about. If Seattle wasn't so great defensively Wilson would have to do a lot more which would lead to some inconsistent play and mistakes. Not having a great defense would take Lynch out of games. Lynch only had 6 carries for 36 yards Sunday because San Diego was moving the football and scoring on the Seahawks defense. Seattle didn't look like the same great team with their defense giving up 26 first downs, almost 400 yards of offense and 30 points.

 

[Ren]

Dez, Murray is good but so is our OL

 

[Doomsday101]

However they still ranked 15th in points allowed. You can spin it anyway you want but that was not a good defense. The Cowboys have a long way to go defensively to build a balanced hardnosed team. You have to be great defensively to build the type of team you're talking about. If Seattle wasn't so great defensively Wilson would have to do a lot more which would lead to some inconsistent play and mistakes. Not having a great defense would take Lynch out of games. Lynch only had 6 carries for 36 yards Sunday because San Diego was moving the football and scoring on the Seahawks defense. Seattle didn't look like the same great team with their defense giving up 26 first downs and almost 400 yards of offense.

As I said I want balance never said I wanted ground chuck, however having 3 1st rd players on the OL does allow Dallas to attack with the running game and Murray is very well equipped to take advantage of it with his downhill running. I also think we have weapons on the outside we can go to so that we are not one dimensional better than what the Seahawks have. Defensively we have to add, a long way to go? I don't know about that. I think there are some young guys and some guys with 2 to 3 years who people have written off way too soon. Again we will see.

 

[KJJ]

As I said I want balance never said I wanted ground chuck, however having 3 1st rd players on the OL does allow Dallas to attack with the running game and Murray is very well equipped to take advantage of it with his downhill running. I also think we have weapons on the outside we can go to so that we are not one dimensional better than what the Seahawks have. Defensively we have to add, a long way to go? I don't know about that. I think there are some young guys and some guys with 2 to 3 years who people have written off way too soon. Again we will see.

The Cowboys have a long way to go defensively. They need a pass rush and have to replace Carr who will be gone after this season due to average play and the amount of money he'll be owed. Claiborne won't be seeing a second contract so although the Cowboys have a few young players with potential they still don't have near the talent defensively to be a solid playoff contender.

 

[Doomsday101]

The Cowboys have a long way to go defensively. They need a pass rush and have to replace Carr who will be gone after this season due to average play and the amount of money he'll be owed. Claiborne won't be seeing a second contract so although the Cowboys have a few young players with potential they still don't have near the talent defensively to be a solid playoff contender.

and those are your prediction that is fine.

 

[KJJ]

and those are your prediction that is fine.

I'm not giving a prediction it's an opinion.

 

[Doomsday101]

I'm not giving a prediction it's an opinion.

Not going to argue over semantics call it what you will.

 

[KJJ]

Not going to argue over semantics call it what you will.

You can call it what you want because you seem to want to argue but I'm giving my opinion. As for my comments on Carr I can't see the Cowboys continuing to pay him beyond this season based off his play that's my opinion. Same with Claiborne once his contact is over I can't see the Cowboys extending him based off his play and injury history. Again that's my opinion.

 

[ghst187]

A

Dez. I love DeMarco, but he is far more replaceable than Dez. Guys like Dez are freaks of nature and only come along in the draft every few years.

Agree, I'd trade demarco for Gurley right now