CFZ Why an elite nose guard is almost as important as an elite QB

[RustyBourneHorse]

Come on OP ..... Nobody ever won a Superbowl because they got a dominant Nose tackle.

Maybe not alone, but it makes a huge difference. The Doomsday Defense wouldn't have been that if not for the nose guard. The 90s D wouldn't have been as potent if not for the nose guard being as lethal as what we had. It's an important piece that Jerry has only just now realised that we should have on the team.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Here's another thing. What's the one thing that's been noticeably lacking since the SB runs. We've had two QBs capable of winning the SBA since Aikman. We've had the oline. We've had the RB and the WRs. We've had the pass rush. The one thing we haven't had is a competent nose guard. Sure, they don't sell jerseys, probably why Jerry ignored that position, but they make a night and day difference for a defence.

 

[PAPPYDOG]

Ok, let's go through a few examples. Let's start with Stafford. In 2014, he has a combo of Suh and Ziggy Ansah. He is able to lead the Lions to the playoffs. When those two leave a few seasons later, the Lions struggle. He goes to LA, and the Rams D is a top D. Oh, guess what, now all of a sudden, he wins.

Tom Brady is also greatly assisted by a top D. When we were getting ready to play the Bucs, a lot of the discussion had to do with the Bucs D. They have a very good nose guard. So, clearly, the last two SBs not only had excellent QBs, but they also had lethal defences. Kind of important to have if we have to play a playoff game against the Packers in Lambeau.

The NFL is a CAP league the sooner you comprehend this the better understanding you will have of the game.
Your dreams of building a top-notch defense to carry our inept offense are simply a fantasy......

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

The NFL is a CAP league the sooner you comprehend this the better understanding you will have of the game.
Your dreams of building a top-notch defense to carry our inept offense are simply a fantasy......

The offense isn't inept. You don't win 12 games if your offense is inept, and they deserved to beat the Raiders and Bucs. It was unfortunate that there were some clear officiating deficiencies in the Raiders game and the Bucs game. Our defence was very good too, of course. But, nose guards are the one area this team still needs work on, and nose guards don't usually cost a massive amount in terms of cap, especially since it's rare when they're taken 1st round. That said, they play such a vital role because of what they do. As such, they have the ability to take our defence from a great defence to an elite defence. It's not to carry the offense, but it is to help the offense a bit more. Keep in mind, as stated, the Triplets greatly benefitted from the 92 defence being as great as it was, and it really was a great defence. Especially considering the fact that, not only did they beat the 49ers in a championship game that they HAD to be great in, but they went on to hold the Bills to 17 points, with 7 being a result of a blocked punt. So, taking that away, and they held the Bills to 10 earned points. That's STAGGERING! Especially considering that the Bills had a very strong offense, as well as a tough as nails defence led by Bruce Smith. All phases have to work together like a set of gears keeping a clock ticking accurately. If one gear malfunctions, then the clock will malfunction. Thus, having the defence be elite is important because it helps the offense, and special teams has to be accurate on all makeable kicks (which Zurelein wasn't).

 

[PAPPYDOG]

The offense isn't inept. You don't win 12 games if your offense is inept, and they deserved to beat the Raiders and Bucs. It was unfortunate that there were some clear officiating deficiencies in the Raiders game and the Bucs game. Our defence was very good too, of course. But, nose guards are the one area this team still needs work on, and nose guards don't usually cost a massive amount in terms of cap, especially since it's rare when they're taken 1st round. That said, they play such a vital role because of what they do. As such, they have the ability to take our defence from a great defence to an elite defence. It's not to carry the offense, but it is to help the offense a bit more. Keep in mind, as stated, the Triplets greatly benefitted from the 92 defence being as great as it was, and it really was a great defence. Especially considering the fact that, not only did they beat the 49ers in a championship game that they HAD to be great in, but they went on to hold the Bills to 17 points, with 7 being a result of a blocked punt. So, taking that away, and they held the Bills to 10 earned points. That's STAGGERING! Especially considering that the Bills had a very strong offense, as well as a tough as nails defence led by Bruce Smith. All phases have to work together like a set of gears keeping a clock ticking accurately. If one gear malfunctions, then the clock will malfunction. Thus, having the defence be elite is important because it helps the offense, and special teams has to be accurate on all makeable kicks (which Zurelein wasn't).

WOOF WOOF......

 

[CowboyFanInLexKy]

I agree with the premise of what you're saying... Each side has key positions that are needed to make each side successful and complete. Just like everything under the hood of a car has to work together to get the car to run smoothly. On Offense, you have QB, RB, WR, TE and C... On Defense, you have DE, FB, S, LB, NT. Don't get me wrong, you need all 11 players on each side of the ball to work together for each side to be successful but those key positions on each side are the nuts and bolts.. While you say an elite NT is needed, on the other side (to balance it out) an elite Center would be needed...

My point is yes, NT is a very important piece of the puzzle for the Defense to work. I just wouldn't put it as important as a QB...

 

[terra]

To be blunt it takes more than an elite NT. Even in the 3-4 your DE's have to be very good as well.
In the 4-3 BOTH tackles need to be very good at the least. Now for a long time we had Bob Lilly and Randy White. BUT next to them were some very quality people like Jethro Pugh, etc.
In the 90's we had Leon Lett but also several other very good people as well.

Fact is that we have had for the last 20 years or so one or at best two quality starters but never more than that. Though one could say we had the people around 2007-2010 on the D line but that was probably the only time when the entire starting D line was quality. But it also takes more than that to win a championship. After Roger retired we had one of the greatest D lines of all time with Harvey Martin, Two Tall Jones, Randy White and John Dutton. But we were unable to get over the hump even with a HOF coach.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

To be blunt it takes more than an elite NT. Even in the 3-4 your DE's have to be very good as well.
In the 4-3 BOTH tackles need to be very good at the least. Now for a long time we had Bob Lilly and Randy White. BUT next to them were some very quality people like Jethro Pugh, etc.
In the 90's we had Leon Lett but also several other very good people as well.

Fact is that we have had for the last 20 years or so one or at best two quality starters but never more than that. Though one could say we had the people around 2007-2010 on the D line but that was probably the only time when the entire starting D line was quality. But it also takes more than that to win a championship. After Roger retired we had one of the greatest D lines of all time with Harvey Martin, Two Tall Jones, Randy White and John Dutton. But we were unable to get over the hump even with a HOF coach.

Exactly, and you of course need an excellent QB, which I think we have. What we've lacked since 1995 is a competent nose guard. That's the mojo that Jerry has been missing. That's what Quinn seems to be bringing back. Like I said to another poster, I think Dak is fine. What we need is a nose guard that can take this defence to the next level like what we had with those defences you mentioned.

 

[zrinkill]

Ok you have convinced me

For now on when I think what brings a championship I will think Nose guard.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

I agree with the premise of what you're saying... Each side has key positions that are needed to make each side successful and complete. Just like everything under the hood of a car has to work together to get the car to run smoothly. On Offense, you have QB, RB, WR, TE and C... On Defense, you have DE, FB, S, LB, NT. Don't get me wrong, you need all 11 players on each side of the ball to work together for each side to be successful but those key positions on each side are the nuts and bolts.. While you say an elite NT is needed, on the other side (to balance it out) an elite Center would be needed...

My point is yes, NT is a very important piece of the puzzle for the Defense to work. I just wouldn't put it as important as a QB...

That's why I said almost. I do not think it's as important as the QB. However, I do think it's certainly in the top 5 things you need for a team to be able to claim to be a contender. We need 5 things. Excellent QB, excellent oline, excellent nose guard, excellent kicker, and excellent WR or RB. If you have those, you can contend for a championship. We have the QB. We have a nice duo at RB. We have a still useful online when healthy. What we have lacked is a competent kicker and a nose guard.

 

[BourbonBalz]

They're valuable and grossly underrated by this front office.....but they aren't almost as important as an elite quarter back. It's not even close.

True. Many a Super Bowl has been won without an elite NG. Few have been without an elite QB.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Ok you have convinced me

For now on when I think what brings a championship I will think Nose guard.

Im not arguing it's more important than the QB hence why I said almost, as in, it's not the most important, but it is in the top 5 of things you need to be a contender.

 

[zrinkill]

Im not arguing it's more important than the QB hence why I said almost, as in, it's not the most important, but it is in the top 5 of things you need to be a contender.

I get it ..... You convinced me

I say we tank next year so we can take the top Nose Guard with the number one overall pick ......

Who's with me!

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

That's why I said almost. I do not think it's as important as the QB. However, I do think it's certainly in the top 5 things you need for a team to be able to claim to be a contender. We need 5 things. Excellent QB, excellent oline, excellent nose guard, excellent kicker, and excellent WR or RB. If you have those, you can contend for a championship. We have the QB. We have a nice duo at RB. We have a still useful online when healthy. What we have lacked is a competent kicker and a nose guard.

Oh yes, and we have a nice crop of WRs and TEs to boot. All that's left is a competent kicker (which Zurelein was not) and a nose guard. Hopefully, Ridgeway can be at least a serviceable one that can clog up the middle and make way for our Lb group.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

I get it ..... You convinced me

I say we tank next year so we can take the top Nose Guard with the number one overall pick ......

Who's with me!

No need, I think Ridgeway should be serviceable enough. If he is what I think he can be, this should be an elite defence. He will be able to swallow up 2+ blockers, which means that our LB unit will have a free lane to attack the QB. Oh, and the QB can't step up because Ridgeway would be right there to take him down. Want to stop Rodgers? Nose Guards are very important to doing that. That's why we got owned the last few times we played them. We didn't have that (thanks Marinelli)

 

[Acceptablename]

Having an elite nose guard is almost as important as having an elite QB. Okay, I know you probably think I've got a football mind made up of a bowl of mashed potatoes, but hear me out.

An elite nose guard not only shuts down your opposing running game, but it also shuts down the opposing QB as well as opening opportunities for the rest of the defence. While an elite QB can pass the WRs open and all, an elite nose guard allows your Lbs to have a free run at the QB on blitzes, prevents the QB from stepping up in the pocket allowing outside rushers the ability to take him down like lions (looking at you Micah Parsons) taking down their prey. The running back won't have any holes, and, if the QB dares to throw, he'll have substantially less time than normal. Yes, the elite nose guard won't get the sacks and all that look pretty, but they are the engine that makes the defence deadly. They make the difference between the Doomsday Defense and a very good defence.


Here's another thing. An elite QB can win you regular season games and help you win in the playoffs. An elite nose guard wins you road playoff games and Super Bowls. Look at the Rams. Yes, Donald gets the credit with his sacks. But, he needs the help of his nose guard to do that. Want Parsons to become the next DWare, Ray Lewis, Randy White, etc? Get a top/elite nose guard.

This is why, in my mind, it's important that Ridgeway be developed into such a nose guard. If this happens, this defence can cross into the elite caliber. This results in the defence being able to be so deadly that being able to move the ball on them is like trying to move Mount Everest from it's base. Essentially, QBs help put up the points, elite nose guards keep the other team at 0.

The game is designed for QB success

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

The game is designed for QB success

And how do you stop an elite QB? By having a top Nose guard. Again, I'm not saying it's as important, I'm just arguing that it's one of the top 5 things on a team you need in order to be a contender.

 

[Jarntt]

"Why an elite nose guard is almost as important as an elite QB"
Come on, seriously? There have been some poor football takes on here, but this one is a doozy. I think we all understand the value an elite NT can bring to a team, but it isn't in the same neighborhood of an elite QB. Also, then you go on to say that with this belief you think DQ agrees with you because we drafted one in the 6th round last year and the 5th round this year and signed no one to really speak of at the position? Clearly he doesn't agree.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

"Why an elite nose guard is almost as important as an elite QB"
Come on, seriously? There have been some poor football takes on here, but this one is a doozy. Also, then you go on to say that with this belief you think DQ agrees with you because we drafted one in the 6th round last year and the 5th round this year and signed no one to really speak of at the position? Clearly he doesn't agree.

Compared to Marinelli. And again, I am not saying that it's more or on par with QB. I'm just saying that it's one of the top 5 things a team needs to be a contender in my view. Marinelli never drafted nose guards. Now we've done it in two consecutive years. I'd have liked to have had Jordan Davis, but I was thrilled that we got Ridgeway, especially after Mark Holmes broke down the tape on Ridgeway. I think we are going to be very pleased with that selection. If he can be at least a good nose guard, which he seems like he can be, this will be the best defence we have seen in decades.

 

[blueblood70]

Having an elite nose guard is almost as important as having an elite QB. Okay, I know you probably think I've got a football mind made up of a bowl of mashed potatoes, but hear me out.

An elite nose guard not only shuts down your opposing running game, but it also shuts down the opposing QB as well as opening opportunities for the rest of the defence. While an elite QB can pass the WRs open and all, an elite nose guard allows your Lbs to have a free run at the QB on blitzes, prevents the QB from stepping up in the pocket allowing outside rushers the ability to take him down like lions (looking at you Micah Parsons) taking down their prey. The running back won't have any holes, and, if the QB dares to throw, he'll have substantially less time than normal. Yes, the elite nose guard won't get the sacks and all that look pretty, but they are the engine that makes the defence deadly. They make the difference between the Doomsday Defense and a very good defence.


Here's another thing. An elite QB can win you regular season games and help you win in the playoffs. An elite nose guard wins you road playoff games and Super Bowls. Look at the Rams. Yes, Donald gets the credit with his sacks. But, he needs the help of his nose guard to do that. Want Parsons to become the next DWare, Ray Lewis, Randy White, etc? Get a top/elite nose guard.

This is why, in my mind, it's important that Ridgeway be developed into such a nose guard. If this happens, this defense can cross into the elite caliber. This results in the defense being able to be so deadly that being able to move the ball on them is like trying to move Mount Everest from it's base. Essentially, QBs help put up the points, elite nose guards keep the other team at 0.

ill have to disagree without reading going by title only..the QB is and always has been they hardest to fill and find a gret qb..elite or not..DL DT DE all very important in team building as a CB/DB is i mean we are talking about team here..

sure if you get licky to get an elite defense to cover upa weak offense led by a lessor qb, yes then your debate becomes true but no ones trading an elite NT like umm who are they name them how many are there, for Tom Brady(or others like Montana, big ben, etc etc Pmanning etc etc) in his prime.

you have to have great talent everywhere so if its not NT its DE or 3T its not necessary to have an elite NT i dotn know many true 1T in this era that are considered elite. Not hybrids, true NTs.. name them? them, show me how they won a SB because of just their presence??

how many 1st round and 2nd round picks plus players are given up for a NT? i see this all over the league for QBs..rigfht or wrong QB is always king..