CFZ Why are the Cowboys so reluctant to make trades the last decade?

[kskboys]

Well my friend, I disagree. By making it clear that Cooper was not in their future plans, teams knew his value was lessened. The Cowboys telegraphed their intentions.

What SJ should have done is act like Cooper was still a valued starter and was in their plans even though he wasn’t. That would disguise their real intentions. This off-season, multiple teams were looking for veteran WRs in a trade. Some garnered 1st round picks. Cooper’s play has certainly waned some, so getting a 1st rounder would’ve been hard. But maybe a 2nd or 3rd was plausible. Until SJ announced on his radio show that Coop wasn’t in their plans. After that we were lucky to get a 5th.

But, haven't you heard? The Jones cult members are absolute masters at day to day operations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jazzcat22]

No, not like that at all. These bozos have gone out of their way to show you how bad they are, if you don't see it it's purely because you don't want to.

Funny thing is, I used to believe as you did. Then I saw multiple heady posters showing much better decision making skills than Jerry. And it wasn't close. The final straw that broke the camel's back for me was the 09 draft. My gawd, I've never seen a dumber draft. 0 needs filled, players drafted had 0 chances of starting, everything about that draft made 0 sense.

That's when it hit me, the Jones boys were simply purely awful at player evaluations. Then you have to ask yourself why. And the answer is in one of Jerry's own statements. He does not watch player tapes, does not read evaluations, nothing. No prep work. There are guys on this site who do a ton more prep work than Jerry.

Jerry prolly knows more about day to day operations, sure, but that has nothing to do w/ player evaluations and team building. He knows nothing about those.

Yes it is like that. As most fans think with their heart and not their head.
They think just because it is not what they want, therefore, the FO sucks. It has been shown time and time again on here.

I do not agree with them all the time, nor like how they operate or telegraph things at time. But that is the way it is, I am not going to whine about them constantly. It does no good.

 

[jazzcat22]

You're paying attention to the wrong fans. No, casual fans could not run a team, not even close. All you hear from them is who we need to cut and that we need more WR's and CB's. However, there are a handful of fans on this site who could do a much better job than Jerry on player evaluations and team building. Jerry absolutely blows chunks at that aspect.

I doubt that very much.
You are then saying Will McClay and all the ones under him for player personnel and evaluations suck as well. We seen different.

 

[kskboys]

Yes it is like that. As most fans think with their heart and not their head.
They think just because it is not what they want, therefore, the FO sucks. It has been shown time and time again on here.

I do not agree with them all the time, nor like how they operate or telegraph things at time. But that is the way it is, I am not going to whine about them constantly. It does no good.

You're referring only to casual fans. I don't think you even read what I wrote.

 

[kskboys]

I doubt that very much.
You are then saying Will McClay and all the ones under him for player personnel and evaluations suck as well. We seen different.

McClay has a clue. Not referring to him, no. Did McClay pick headcase Joseph? No way no how was that the right pick. Explain to me how that happened?

 

[jazzcat22]

You're referring only to casual fans. I don't think you even read what I wrote.

McClay has a clue. Not referring to him, no. Did McClay pick headcase Joseph? No way no how was that the right pick. Explain to me how that happened?

You do not know who picked Joseph. McClay and his group had him on the board. You are reaching with that to blame Jerry.
Yes I read what you posted. I can ask the same of you, did you read mine?

 

[Bobhaze]

You do not know who picked Joseph. McClay and his group had him on the board. You are reaching with that to blame Jerry.
Yes I read what you posted. I can ask the same of you, did you read mine?

Jazz, my understanding of how the draft is conducted is Will McClay provides detailed scouting reports, then ranks and recommends certain players. Jerry with Stephen’s input makes the actual choice of players. That’s at least what Jerry says.

Jerry has recognized McClay’s talent and aptitude for scouting players. Thankfully. But it’s very clear that Will McClay is not drafting players. That’s Jerry’s deal. Jerry gets to make the final call. He drafted Kelvin Joseph. Or at the very least green lighted it.

 

[MyFairLady]

Just look at Jaylon. No one who is held accountable for their actions would hitch their wagon to that fool by drafting him so high, forcing him to play that early and sticking with him for that long. Only a dysfunctional circus like the Cowboys could have ever made that happen.

 

[Kingofholland]

I agree with your comment about not getting value for players in a trade. Exhibit A is the pitiful Amari Cooper trade for a 5th rounder.

Yes Coop’s production has slipped some. But the main reason all they got was a 5th rounder was Stephen running his big mouth on the radio about how hard it was going to be to keep Coop with his salary and the Cowboys cap situation. They completely telegraphed they were getting rid of him. Instead of getting a 2nd or 3rd rounder, they got a 5th. All because they couldn’t keep their mouths shut. Just plain stupid.

They probably called every team too to tell them how displeased they were with Cooper's effort and he's available if they wanted to trade for him, lol.

But yes, it was the worst move they made this offseason. Seeing what other teams got for receivers just added more to that pain point.

 

[jazzcat22]

Jazz, my understanding of how the draft is conducted is Will McClay provides detailed scouting reports, then ranks and recommends certain players. Jerry with Stephen’s input makes the actual choice of players. That’s at least what Jerry says.

Jerry has recognized McClay’s talent and aptitude for scouting players. Thankfully. But it’s very clear that Will McClay is not drafting players. That’s Jerry’s deal. Jerry gets to make the final call. He drafted Kelvin Joseph. Or at the very least green lighted it.

Maybe so, but he did so by following the draft board. He said as much the time he was on his big boat. He follows the draft board.
I do not believe he and his son are the sole decision makers.
Again this is made up more by the fans that do not like him IMO.

And I am by no means defending Jerry or the FO. This is my opinion.

 

[eromeopolk]

I find it interesting that the Cowboys are one of the least likely teams in the NFL to make trades. And when they do, it usually involves either a first round pick or a 6-7th round pick- almost never involves a player for player trade.

In the last decade, the Cowboys have made 22 trades, which is near the bottom of NFL teams making trades. I find that interesting. In the last decade, New England has made a whopping 67 trades, KC 40, and Balt 34. Making trades in and of itself doesn’t guarantee anything, but it does make me wonder why our FO is so reluctant to do them when for example we could really use a swing T.

Some other interesting aspect of our trade habits the last decade:

• Of the 22 trades we’ve made, 8 involved DL.
• Only 3 of those 22 trades involved a player for player swap.
• Of those 22 trades, 13 involved defensive players.
• The most common trade capital used has been 6th and 7th round picks.

Why are the Cowboys so reluctant to make a trade? With an obvious need at OL depth, and with some current depth at DL, wouldn’t it make sense to get some help via trade?

Thoughts?

Have you seen the results of Jerry Dumbo GM Jones trades without Jimmy Johnson, John Wooten, and Bob Ackles doing the trading.

He got one trade right in 26 years and then traded away that player and got nothing but egg on his face...See Amari Cooper.

 

[DandyDon52]

This isn’t directed at you but prompt my response from reading thru others. I agree with your post.

Truth be told this era we really aren’t seeing the blockbuster trades in the NFL we used to.

Mostly it’s about trading big name players who teams don’t want to resign due to the Cap. Or the smaller less meaningful trades for lower round and conditional picks.

And if we want to be more critical of the Cowboys in regards to this it would be not getting better trades or value for these guys we end up releasing or don’t want to resign due to Cap.

yes in that regard they often get nothing for good players with some value, because they wait too late to decide yay or nay on keeping them.
They barely got a 5th for amari, nothing for lael and gregory, and I dont think they got anything for hitchens.
To me that is a key element when your trying to build thru the draft, you have to get value, draft picks for guys they cant afford to resign, or dont want
to pay them what they will command in market price.

That takes forethought, and planning, and if done right can yield extra picks each year in the draft. Dallas does get some comp picks, but could have
had many other extra picks over last 7 years.

 

[DandyDon52]

Maybe so, but he did so by following the draft board. He said as much the time he was on his big boat. He follows the draft board.
I do not believe he and his son are the sole decision makers.
Again this is made up more by the fans that do not like him IMO.

And I am by no means defending Jerry or the FO. This is my opinion.

Well we cant know all the details, unless we bug their offices and draft room lol. Be great if we could do that.

So we can use common sense and patterns and then speculate.

Jerry being the type person he is, I think he is only involved in mainly 1st round and 2nd round picks.
Sometimes he might go with what the others think they should do, but sometimes he will want a specific play, and will not listen
and pick "his guy".
I think some of these are:
Jaylon Smith
Gregory
Lael
Joseph
Lamb....I think jerry would have taken lamb no matter what anyone said. At the time they didnt need a wr, and Lamb to me was over rated.
Elliot RB at 4 is not smart, this has jerry written all over it. Same as lamb.

Frederick and Martin were not jerry picks, he just approved them, and could be there was no flashy player, or bargain player he wanted in that draft, is there had been we
might not have got the 2 linemen.

In the parsons draft, Jerry wanted the corners, they went quick so he went along with the others and picked parsons, that was fairly obvious
what happened there.

However some of the 2nd round picks, like that TE, forget his name, were bizzarre, and dont seem like a jerry pick, so aside from JG ,I dont know
who to pin those on.

 

[tyke1doe]

The Cooper trade with the raiders wasn’t as bad as the Roy Williams trade with the lions. But yeah, the Jones boys are not exactly trade savvy.

Don't forget the Joey Galloway (2 1sts) trade also.

 

[Bobhaze]

Don't forget the Joey Galloway (2 1sts) trade also.

I wish I could forget, lol.

 

[jazzcat22]

Well we cant know all the details, unless we bug their offices and draft room lol. Be great if we could do that.

So we can use common sense and patterns and then speculate.

Jerry being the type person he is, I think he is only involved in mainly 1st round and 2nd round picks.
Sometimes he might go with what the others think they should do, but sometimes he will want a specific play, and will not listen
and pick "his guy".
I think some of these are:
Jaylon Smith
Gregory
Lael
Joseph
Lamb....I think jerry would have taken lamb no matter what anyone said. At the time they didnt need a wr, and Lamb to me was over rated.
Elliot RB at 4 is not smart, this has jerry written all over it. Same as lamb.

Frederick and Martin were not jerry picks, he just approved them, and could be there was no flashy player, or bargain player he wanted in that draft, is there had been we
might not have got the 2 linemen.

In the parsons draft, Jerry wanted the corners, they went quick so he went along with the others and picked parsons, that was fairly obvious
what happened there.

However some of the 2nd round picks, like that TE, forget his name, were bizzarre, and dont seem like a jerry pick, so aside from JG ,I dont know
who to pin those on.

So the players that the usual posters mostly like, Jerry was not as involved with, or went with the board or influenced by others.
The players they do not like was all Jerry.
Well, ok then.
It provides my point fans go with their emotions and not the head. That is not using common sense to think that way or to speculate.

Yes they blew many picks as you say, but it was still not all Jerry. That is media / fan driven stuff.
I don't like all what Jerry does, or don't even like him talking to the media. But it is how it is.

 

[Floatyworm]

He never did put it in. Everything w/ him is just a kneejerk reaction, seat of his pants sort of stuff.

 

[Floatyworm]

You're paying attention to the wrong fans. No, casual fans could not run a team, not even close. All you hear from them is who we need to cut and that we need more WR's and CB's. However, there are a handful of fans on this site who could do a much better job than Jerry on player evaluations and team building. Jerry absolutely blows chunks at that aspect.

 

[DandyDon52]

So the players that the usual posters mostly like, Jerry was not as involved with, or went with the board or influenced by others.
The players they do not like was all Jerry.
Well, ok then.
It provides my point fans go with their emotions and not the head. That is not using common sense to think that way or to speculate.

Yes they blew many picks as you say, but it was still not all Jerry. That is media / fan driven stuff.
I don't like all what Jerry does, or don't even like him talking to the media. But it is how it is.

So u think McClay or coaches wanted Jaylon? in 2nd round? That reeks of jones boys bargain hunting, same for gregory, and same for lael.
They were all "Bargains".
By that I mean supposed 1st round guys they got in later rounds.

Lamb, jerry had him ranked so high in his own mind, he knew he would be the new 88.
I think, and it is just imo, jerry would have picked lamb, even if everyone else said no lets get this other guy.

And it isnt about who I liked are others here like dont like, some players are clearly picked by jerry or both jones boys.
you can also tell by how they are treated after being picked, and do they get extended or not, and how good of a deal they get.

 

[TwentyOne]

I find it interesting that the Cowboys are one of the least likely teams in the NFL to make trades. And when they do, it usually involves either a first round pick or a 6-7th round pick- almost never involves a player for player trade.

In the last decade, the Cowboys have made 22 trades, which is near the bottom of NFL teams making trades. I find that interesting. In the last decade, New England has made a whopping 67 trades, KC 40, and Balt 34. Making trades in and of itself doesn’t guarantee anything, but it does make me wonder why our FO is so reluctant to do them when for example we could really use a swing T.

Some other interesting aspect of our trade habits the last decade:

• Of the 22 trades we’ve made, 8 involved DL.
• Only 3 of those 22 trades involved a player for player swap.
• Of those 22 trades, 13 involved defensive players.
• The most common trade capital used has been 6th and 7th round picks.

Why are the Cowboys so reluctant to make a trade? With an obvious need at OL depth, and with some current depth at DL, wouldn’t it make sense to get some help via trade?

Thoughts?

First of all i think you have to view the signing of our own players to new contracts also as a kind of FA signings. So this would change your stats.

But nethertheless. I think this FO developed a conviction that it is very good at drafting players.

When Parcells came here he installed a system by building with 2 priorities: Build your core team thru the draft. And plug short term starter holes with average FAs. Also fill backup positions with average FAs. That went very well. And to me it is the way to go.

When Garett came here he used Parcells approach but went stronger to build thru the draft. And i think when we drafted Martin and Fredericks during his time here it was the "worst" that could happen to us in hindsight.

Because i think those 2 draft picks (combined with a few more) it convinced our FO that they are great at drafting. And they think this way until now. That conviction is so big that they think that they are able to build ONLY thru the draft.

The problems that i see are:

1. You cant build a winning team only thru the draft
2. We are not good at drafting. This "conviction" stems back from some #1 round picks that panned out. But looking for example at our last 4-5 dratfs. We are not good at drafting.


Then of course we dont have anybody who actually knows how to professionally handle the salary cap. Which is also a problem when you want to sign FAs.

My last point is a bit tricky. Because with the Joneses big Egos i dont think they know or allow them to accept that they are bad at managing the cap. I think they are more like: "hey signing FAs is very risky so lets build thru the draft and sign only our own player whom we already know". They project their own disability into the word "risky".