Why Dak still sucks

[BoysForLife]

I agree, I think Dallas can be successful with Dak if he is allowed to play to his strengths.

Honest question--what are his strengths/skillsets that you see that could lead to success at the highest level in this league.

I'm not trying to be a downer but my take on him is that his pocket awareness/presence and footwork are marginal at best. I will concede that his arm strength is plenty good enough, no concerns there.

He seems to have issues identifying the open receivers a large share of the time and often even when he does, the passes are more often than not late, off target, or both. Especially this is a concern on downfield throws, where his ball placement and timing on throws beyond 10-15 yards is a serious deficiency most of the time.

His mechanics are lacking, even by admission of a majority of his supporters.

He is a top level runner once he gets outside of the pocket. IMO probably his greatest strength.

wondering what you think of my assessment and how yours differs.
also wondering how you think his strengths then can be parlayed into great team success.

Again--honest question and am interested to hear your thoughts.

 

[sean10mm]

Honest question--what are his strengths/skillsets that you see that could lead to success at the highest level in this league.

I'm not trying to be a downer but my take on him is that his pocket awareness/presence and footwork are marginal at best. I will concede that his arm strength is plenty good enough, no concerns there.

He seems to have issues identifying the open receivers a large share of the time and often even when he does, the passes are more often than not late, off target, or both. Especially this is a concern on downfield throws, where his ball placement and timing on throws beyond 10-15 yards is a serious deficiency most of the time.

His mechanics are lacking, even by admission of a majority of his supporters.

He is a top level runner once he gets outside of the pocket. IMO probably his greatest strength.

wondering what you think of my assessment and how yours differs.
also wondering how you think his strengths then can be parlayed into great team success.

Again--honest question and am interested to hear your thoughts.

This all basically describes early career Donovan McNabb to a T. The only difference is that he had Andy Reid developing him as a player instead of the Ginger Clapper.

It's possible Dak can't learn, but for as bad as this coaching staff is across the board it seems much more likely that Garrett can't teach.

 

[G2]

I agree, I think Dallas can be successful with Dak if he is allowed to play to his strengths.

What we just saw is the key in my opinion. A stifling defense, strong run game and efficient passing game. Plus, the threat of Prescott running. No QB should be rushing for 80+ yards, and if we can maintain that threat we will be in good shape. Most aren't patient enough to let the O line, TE's and WRs build some continuity.

 

[Doomsday101]

Honest question--what are his strengths/skillsets that you see that could lead to success at the highest level in this league.

I'm not trying to be a downer but my take on him is that his pocket awareness/presence and footwork are marginal at best. I will concede that his arm strength is plenty good enough, no concerns there.

He seems to have issues identifying the open receivers a large share of the time and often even when he does, the passes are more often than not late, off target, or both. Especially this is a concern on downfield throws, where his ball placement and timing on throws beyond 10-15 yards is a serious deficiency most of the time.

His mechanics are lacking, even by admission of a majority of his supporters.

He is a top level runner once he gets outside of the pocket. IMO probably his greatest strength.

wondering what you think of my assessment and how yours differs.
also wondering how you think his strengths then can be parlayed into great team success.

Again--honest question and am interested to hear your thoughts.

I think for Dak at this point and time it is important to have Dak active within the run game, to me as well as some in the media see that his confidence level really benefits and he does start hitting his passes and his accuracy gets better. He hit 63% of his passes avoided ints and threw for 2 TD and ran for one. I think that is his game as this stage and is doing so with some outside weapons he has had little playing time with outside of Beasley. It is funny I watched other QB who throw some high balls, throw balls a bit behind their WR or throw them low and WR dig them out of the ground for the catch. Dallas WR need to help out their QB it is not all on Dak, will all balls be thrown perfect? No but few QB are throwing perfect yet WR still make the plays and it falls to Dak to continue to work with them to get on the same page.

 

[csirl]

Dak = Steve Pelleur in 1988.

I wonder if message boards had existed back then would they be debating if he should get a long term contract.

Note that in 1989 Pelleur didnt even make the team - new coach - JJ - brought in 3 new QBs and the rest is history.

Pelleurs career faded out - he ended up in the WLAF.

 

[G2]

Honest question--what are his strengths/skillsets that you see that could lead to success at the highest level in this league.

I'm not trying to be a downer but my take on him is that his pocket awareness/presence and footwork are marginal at best. I will concede that his arm strength is plenty good enough, no concerns there.

He seems to have issues identifying the open receivers a large share of the time and often even when he does, the passes are more often than not late, off target, or both. Especially this is a concern on downfield throws, where his ball placement and timing on throws beyond 10-15 yards is a serious deficiency most of the time.

His mechanics are lacking, even by admission of a majority of his supporters.

He is a top level runner once he gets outside of the pocket. IMO probably his greatest strength.

wondering what you think of my assessment and how yours differs.
also wondering how you think his strengths then can be parlayed into great team success.

Again--honest question and am interested to hear your thoughts.

As I have said, do what we did vs. the Jags. Team-wide.

 

[G2]

Dak = Steve Pelleur in 1988.

I wonder if message boards had existed back then would they be debating if he should get a long term contract.

Note that in 1989 Pelleur didnt even make the team - new coach - JJ - brought in 3 new QBs and the rest is history.

Pelleurs career faded out - he ended up in the WLAF.

Not a very accurate comparison.

 

[Kevinicus]

Not the whole 2nd half - you need to stop that exaggeration. He only threw 2 passes the 4th quarter.​

And apparently you don't know the background. This discussion didn't arise from an argument as to whether Dak threw passes in the 2nd half or not, it arose out of an irrational put down of Dak for not getting 200 yards by the end of the 3rd quarter, as if that was the focus and goal of the team and of Dak. Dak can't complete passes when sacked or when scrambling for 28 yards, and he was absolutely right to throw a couple of passes away rather than force a throw and risk a turnover in a game that the team had well in hand as long as it didn't commit turnovers. Dak's concern was not making a mistake that could turn the momentum rather than whether he got to 200 yards by the end of the 3rd quarter.

Throwaways are always counted. 32 yards on 9 attempts is not good. Why the near pick to Ramsey?

 

[BoysForLife]

As I have said, do what we did vs. the Jags. Team-wide.

then why aren't we 6-0?

Zeke is the leagues leading rusher and we have the #2 scoring defense in the league for the first 6 games.
If top rushing game and stifling defense and a QB that has to do little more than fog a mirror are the formula, then how are we a .500 team?

 

[G2]

then why aren't we 6-0?

Zeke is the leagues leading rusher and we have the #2 scoring defense in the league for the first 6 games.
If top rushing game and stifling defense and a QB that has to do little more than fog a mirror are the formula, then how are we a .500 team?

The offense has needed to be better. Can't you identify the issues? The O line is playing better but has been hot garbage all season. The Wr's and TE's as well. Prescott has his struggles. Pretty simple stuff.

 

[BoysForLife]

The offense has needed to be better. Can't you identify the issues? The O line is playing better but has been hot garbage all season. The Wr's and TE's as well. Prescott has his struggles. Pretty simple stuff.

O line hasn't been as bad as many think.

You don't have the leagues leading rusher with an O line that's "hot garbage".

The WR's and TE's have been open more than people think. The issue is, they haven't been hit when open.

 

[G2]

O line hasn't been as bad as many think.

You don't have the leagues leading rusher with an O line that's "hot garbage".

The WR's and TE's have been open more than people think. The issue is, they haven't been hit when open.

Sounds like a bunch of excuses so that you can place blame on the QB. Run blocking and pass blocking are two different things. The WR's and TE's, while playing better aren't threatening anyone. What are your numbers of wide open WRs and TEs when Prescott was able to get a throw away. Go.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

True, winning is what is expected and when you fail you catch hell and Romo caught hell even though as you said some in the fan base would excuse it but nationally critics would come down on Romo because he and the team failed in post season. Part of being QB to much credit and too much blame. In the end I don't expect Dak to be Romo I expect Dak to play to his own strength and help this team win. If he does great and if not Dallas will be looking for a QB down the road.

Yep, you nailed it.

 

[BoysForLife]

Sounds like a bunch of excuses so that you can place blame on the QB. Run blocking and pass blocking are two different things. The WR's and TE's, while playing better aren't threatening anyone. What are your numbers of wide open WRs and TEs when Prescott was able to get a throw away. Go.

No matter what numbers I come up with arbitrarily, they're going to be dismissed as "excuses to place blame on the QB".
I'd rather rely on the next gen stats showing the level of separation our receivers and TE's were getting that were posted on here about a week or two ago.
The numbers that were dismissed right away as irrelevant, inaccurate, etc.

But nonetheless they are official stats that can't (or I might say shouldn't) be ignored or dismissed.
Those numbers showed that our WR and TE's were getting separation. They were getting open. Despite what many of Dak's supporters were saying.

And while I don't dispute that Run Blocking and Pass Blocking are different things, you didn't note that in your earlier comments. You merely said they were "hot garbage". Which sounds like a diversion mean to place blame pretty much anywhere but the QB.

I would also submit that pass blocking becomes much easier to do when the open guys are being identified and the ball is coming out sooner. Neither one of which are big strengths of Dak's. So rather than complete your assignment and then have my "numbers" dismissed arbitrarily, I'll give you one instead.

Try and explain to me how receivers who used to produce big time numbers with regularity, to the point they go awarded huge contracts, suddenly became diminished players who either had to be run out of town on a rail (Dez) or become scapegoats who "aren't earning their money" (Beasely).

Go.

 

[khiladi]

Dude. How much are you going to obsess over that throw.

Ramsey is the best CB in the league. You’re obsessing over a near interception by the best cornerback in the league and hammering on it over and again. I mean sheesh.

The receiver also misplayed the heck out of that ball too by the way. Didn’t even turn his head to look at it. Otherwise he had a chance to catch it.

What does Dak making a horrible throw have to do with Ramsey? Was it the WRs fault or Ramsey bring the best CB in the world?

And I brought it up, because it demonstrates what he was trying to do, and that wasn’t being conservative and it exemplifies once again one of his common traits of crappy mechanics and throwing off his back foot...

 

[G2]

No matter what numbers I come up with arbitrarily, they're going to be dismissed as "excuses to place blame on the QB".
I'd rather rely on the next gen stats showing the level of separation our receivers and TE's were getting that were posted on here about a week or two ago.
The numbers that were dismissed right away as irrelevant, inaccurate, etc.

But nonetheless they are official stats that can't (or I might say shouldn't) be ignored or dismissed.
Those numbers showed that our WR and TE's were getting separation. They were getting open. Despite what many of Dak's supporters were saying.

And while I don't dispute that Run Blocking and Pass Blocking are different things, you didn't note that in your earlier comments. You merely said they were "hot garbage". Which sounds like a diversion mean to place blame pretty much anywhere but the QB.

I would also submit that pass blocking becomes much easier to do when the open guys are being identified and the ball is coming out sooner. Neither one of which are big strengths of Dak's. So rather than complete your assignment and then have my "numbers" dismissed arbitrarily, I'll give you one instead.

Try and explain to me how receivers who used to produce big time numbers with regularity, to the point they go awarded huge contracts, suddenly became diminished players who either had to be run out of town on a rail (Dez) or become scapegoats who "aren't earning their money" (Beasely).

Go.

So you have no clue, you're just pulling numbers out of you ***. Got it.

You are mistaken if you suggest I'm not placing blame on the QB as well. That's usually what happens. Either you struggle with reading comprehension or you conveniently ignore the statements of Prescott sharing the blame. I'm a fan of the team, period. I'm not going to regurgitate the same lame bull**** points of view that point the finger solely at Prescott.

Your attempt to discredit the QB, ignore issues with passing under pressure and simply suggesting that the ball needs to come out sooner is ignoring some symptoms.
If you want to hoist your hero Bryant up and act like he's been relevant for 4 years, go right ahead. 2014 was his last productive season. Prescott wasn't here until 2015. I know, I know..."He didn't have a perfect passer to get him the ball like Romo" - blah blah blah. He's still unemployed, right?

If you want to have a logical discussion, fine but stop making things up. Have fun!

 

[Rockport]

You can’t argue with Dak haters just as you couldn’t argue against Romo haters. The only way for some of them to **** is for Dak to continue to prove them wrong or they hear on ESPN that he’s good. Some of them will never shut up.

 

[BoysForLife]

So you have no clue, you're just pulling numbers out of you ***. Got it.

You are mistaken if you suggest I'm not placing blame on the QB as well. That's usually what happens. Either you struggle with reading comprehension or you conveniently ignore the statements of Prescott sharing the blame. I'm a fan of the team, period. I'm not going to regurgitate the same lame bull**** points of view that point the finger solely at Prescott.

Your attempt to discredit the QB, ignore issues with passing under pressure and simply suggesting that the ball needs to come out sooner is ignoring some symptoms.
If you want to hoist your hero Bryant up and act like he's been relevant for 4 years, go right ahead. 2014 was his last productive season. Prescott wasn't here until 2015. I know, I know..."He didn't have a perfect passer to get him the ball like Romo" - blah blah blah. He's still unemployed, right?

If you want to have a logical discussion, fine but stop making things up. Have fun!

LOL. You're funny. Putting words in my mouth that I never said, ignoring things I did say, and then complaining about the "lack of logical discussion"

Re read the exchange. You asked me to "come up with my numbers" of receiver separation. I said I"m not going to make my own up because you'd then accuse me of making them up and dismiss them (which ironically is what you accused me of doing, when I clearly didn't). I said I'd rather rely on the Next Gen numbers that were posted on here last week (and widely lampooned by Dak's biggest supporters). They were widely discussed. I"m sure you saw that thread. I notice you glossed over that part.....

Beasley comes out and says "I'm getting open, I'm just not being seen" and Dak's supporters go nuts. Then all of a sudden Bease goes off and that noise quiets. I also laughed hard every time Romo described Beasley as a guy who was "unguardable" during Sunday's broadcast. I wonder, whose word should I take--the all time leading passer in franchise history, or the legions of Dak detractors who constantly complain that none of our receivers "scare anyone".

Would you care to discuss the real, actual, next Gen stats that we all saw last week?
Or continue with the charge that I'm "making things up out of my ***"?

Logic awaits, if you're willing to engage....

 

[DuncanIso]

Dak = Steve Pelleur in 1988.

I wonder if message boards had existed back then would they be debating if he should get a long term contract.

Note that in 1989 Pelleur didnt even make the team - new coach - JJ - brought in 3 new QBs and the rest is history.

Pelleurs career faded out - he ended up in the WLAF.

Total agreement.

Dak has struggled and he should be benched.

His stats are in the bottom of the NFL.

 

[Verdict]

In the third quarter ALONE, Dak THREW it nine times and the tenth was when he broke pocket after spinning into the DT to the right, but escaped for that gain. Dak homers, as justification for the fact he couldn’t break 200 yards passing, are pinning this like the Cowboys just decided to stop passed. Dak tried PASSING around 70% of the time in third quarter and his most successful play was when he broke pocket on a three man rush, almost spinning himself into a sack.

He made one awful throw that should on the almost INT by Ramsey and the other, series when Heath put them at the Jaguars 8, he threw it twice and cane away with a field goal. The problem with the Ramsey throw was that it was right after Kaguars matched up the field and scored a TD, meaning it could have easily shifted the momentum and put it at 24-14 if they had any competent offense. The next field goal was the off worst throw in NFL history by Bortles to Heath.

Then came the fumble by the Jags and Dallas decided they had enough and ran it with Zeke pretty much every time.

The Jaguars basically adjusted after their incompetent first half and Dak was Dak. The defense also got its TOs against this garbage Jags offense that turned it over five times last week and allowed the Cowboys to pull ahead while Dak floundered passing.

The point being Dak couldn’t even break 200 yards passing when he was still TRYING.

Are you a Dez Fan Boi? That's about the only excuse for the disdain for Dak after such a great game by our QB.