Why Dak still sucks

[BoysForLife]

We are built very similar to that team too.

Haters want big yards and L's though.

That season, Wilson still averaged over 210 yards per game and threw 26 TD and 9 INT

At this point, if Dak's production continues the way it is, he'll finish at about 190 yards per game with 18 TD and 12 INT.

20% difference in passer rating. Point being--Dak ain't Wilson. Not even close.

 

[Ken]

That season, Wilson still averaged over 210 yards per game and threw 26 TD and 9 INT

At this point, if Dak's production continues the way it is, he'll finish at about 190 yards per game with 18 TD and 12 INT.

20% difference in passer rating. Point being--Dak ain't Wilson. Not even close.

Did they end the season that year after 6 games?

Patience...

 

[Doomsday101]

1. Without those 500 yards Dallas is rolled off the field and has zero chance at winning that game. It wasn't about fantasy.
2. Dallas did come out throwing. 10 called pass plays is a pace of 40 per game.
3. Who are you lumping into "you guys came in hollering and complaining?"

I'm lumping every one who came in after Det game when Romo and the Cowboys lost after having a big lead because that is exactly what the reaction was here people upset that Dallas did not run the ball in the 2nd half and Romo getting careless with the ball throwing a couple of ints to let Det back into the game. Of course coaching staff took the heat on that since they did not run Murray. As for Dak he did throw some in the 2nd half for the most part very safe passes and again when it was not there he would take off and run not try to put it in tight windows.

 

[Aviano90]

From what I have read from you today you are making this more about Romo being better than Dak and not the OP. What I’m saying is that the general criticism of Dak is not about Romo. That’s where you are wrong IMO. If you are now bringing it back to just disputing one irrational hater then that is fine. Nobody who looks at this stuff with a level head will support irrational haters or irrational defenders of any player. It’s always going to be more nuanced than that. Even I as a pretty hard critic of Dak acknowledge that he’s a legit starter in this league. I don’t think he’s a bum that shouldn’t be in the league or anything. I just think he’s a bottom 5 starter IF you use him as a pocket passer. If you start using his legs more, well the jury is out on that. I don’t think that is a sustainable formula and I’d prefer to go find our version of a Goff or Wentz, but for now let’s give it a try and see what happens. By now we know Dak can’t consistently win games for us in a traditional way and he’s going to be our QB for better or worse for 26+ more games. So let’s see what he can do using his legs more.

I guess I will leave it at this. If you are disputing one irrational hater and at the same time acknowledging that much of the criticism of Dak as a pure passer is warranted then I think you and I are not far off.

No we are not far off. I actually don't believe Dak is a "franchise" QB. I am onboard with selling the farm next year and taking a stab at trying to obtain a franchise QB since Dak's value to the team right now is his $600K salary compared to a $20-$30 million salary some of these other mediocre teams have.

I also understand there is more than one way to skin a cat. If a "bus driver" like Dak can manage the game and we let Zeke and the defense "carry" the team, then I am fine with it. Just win. Style points don't count in the NFL.

 

[OmerV]

The point has been stated repeatedly. That Dak being under 200 yds is not from a lack of them trying to pass in the 2nd half.

Not the whole 2nd half - you need to stop that exaggeration. He only threw 2 passes the 4th quarter.​

And apparently you don't know the background. This discussion didn't arise from an argument as to whether Dak threw passes in the 2nd half or not, it arose out of an irrational put down of Dak for not getting 200 yards by the end of the 3rd quarter, as if that was the focus and goal of the team and of Dak. Dak can't complete passes when sacked or when scrambling for 28 yards, and he was absolutely right to throw a couple of passes away rather than force a throw and risk a turnover in a game that the team had well in hand as long as it didn't commit turnovers. Dak's concern was not making a mistake that could turn the momentum rather than whether he got to 200 yards by the end of the 3rd quarter.

 

[BoysForLife]

Did they end the season that year after 6 games?

Patience...

No argument, lot of football left to play.
But trends are trends and until the trends improve, the concerns (imo) are legitimate and well founded.

Time will tell, you are correct about that.

 

[BoysForLife]

I also understand there is more than one way to skin a cat. If a "bus driver" like Dak can manage the game and we let Zeke and the defense "carry" the team, then I am fine with it. Just win. Style points don't count in the NFL.

No argument there. We are in agreement on that.

 

[Risen Star]

I think Brees and Rodgers are great QB and yes they can put up big numbers and are very efficient with their throws. I have never once said Dak is like Brees or Rodgers and yes I would love to have either one on my team. However Dak is the QB and he must play to his strength not pretend to be someone he is not. For those who want to pine over Dak not being Rodgers or Brees that is fine, my interest is in taking what we have and playing to what he does best. It has been Proven that style of play can win games and SB. Last time I checked Russell Wilson and Cam Newton have just as many SB rings as does Rodgers and Brees

If his strength isn't passing the ball then he shouldn't be the QB here.

Last time I checked, Cam Newton and Russell Wilson have much better arm talent and pocket skills than Dak Prescott. Which is why he throws for 190 yards a game.

 

[Doomsday101]

That's fine. So if the team scored 40 with Dak passing for 180 yards, can we assume that if Romo threw for 500 yards and 5 TD, then we would have scored in the neighborhood of 70 or so and still won?

I mean, I get the wins are the most important thing. No one is arguing that.
But implying that Romo's 500 yard, 5 TD game against the Broncos was somehow a demonstration of inferior QB play simply because the defense decided to give up 54 points that day, is so asinine, it is almost beyond comprehension.

I'm a Dak critic. I'm not at all sold on him being the long term answer for the Cowboys at the QB spot. I'll be up front with that.

I'll also call it straight and say he had a very good and efficient game the other day. Probably his best game so far this year. He saw many of the open receivers that he'd been missing and his passes were for the most part more accurate on Sunday. Those are all reasons to celebrate. He earned some praise on Sunday and he should get it.

I'm also not naive. In today's NFL, if your QB averages 180 a game, you are going to win more than you lose in the long run. The win Sunday was a great win. We should all enjoy it.

But pretending that we can continue to get that kind of production out of Prescott and keep winning 40-7 every week is simply not realistic. At some point he's going to have to step up his accuracy, his reads, his overall performance, if this team is going to win big games. We have the leagues leading rusher and a top 4 defense both in terms of yards allowed and 2nd in points allowed.

And we're a .500 team.
Sorry man, but that's bull****. You have the leagues leading rusher and a top 3 defense and you're sitting at .500? There ain't no way around that bro. Dak played well Sunday but at this point, that performance is the exception. Not the rule. And it needs to get better and more consistent if we are going to have these wins you seem to cherish so much.

I don't assume jack, I like Romo but fact is this team won nothing, where are the rings I don't see any. Romo was a gun slinger and along with the TD he would also throw some bad ints that cost this team. Was it all on him? No but he played a part in it. He took chances at time when he did not need to.

As for how many yards you need to throw for to win a SB? come on Wilson did it in Seattle was not their passing game was ranked about the bottom of the league, Cam Newton won it and same deal. These guys are never going to be Rodgers but they can and have won, hell they have as many SB rings as Rodgers has.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

The 2013 game against Green Bay is what I'm talking about in which the Cowboys had the lead and was controlling the game. Yet GB came back and won at least partly because the coaching staff decided to go pass heavy on some drives. Leaving more time on the clock for GB to come back when those passing plays didn't always work out.

So, if Dak really went pass heavy, with risky throws against the Jags in the name of trying to get fantasy stats and the Jags defensively got a couple of INTs or pick sixes that put them back in the game. Then we would see criticism of Dak just being interested in putting up stats instead of winning a game already in control. Dak would get blasted for allowing the Jags back in the game.

And coaching staff wise there would be similar blow out like there was against Detroit and Green Bay both losses in which Romo threw for two hundred yards. If the Jags game played out the same way, then all week you would just hear why the Cowboys didn't give the ball to Zeke more the 2nd half. Dak passed some but it wasn't throwing it up all over the place trying to get big plays for stats.

 

[Doomsday101]

Last in passing?

I'll take your word for it but looking up his stats for that year shows over 200 yds/gm, over 8 yds/att and a rating of over 101.

Sure, they rode that all world defense and beast mode but they could pass the ball and I'm sure defenses didn't just dare Wilson to throw like they are doing to Dak.

One dimensional teams don't win consistently.

Seahawks were ranked 26 in passing, 4th in rushing part of the rushing came from Wilson who rushed for 539. Yes relied on a defense as well. Fact is they played to Wilson strength and I hope this team does that with Dak. When they have he has faired well. I agree that Dallas has to be able to pass to help back defenses off of Zeke and make them pay when they don't back off. This past game Dallas used a lot of play action getting LB to move and opening some passing lanes up that Dak was able to hit and Dak ability to run the ball as well helped Zeke on one of his bigger gains, as the DE froze on the outside instead of crashing down because he was looking for Dak to keep it and in doing so Zeke ran right by him without being touched

 

[BoysForLife]

I don't assume jack, I like Romo but fact is this team won nothing, where are the rings I don't see any. Romo was a gun slinger and along with the TD he would also throw some bad ints that cost this team. Was it all on him? No but he played a part in it. He took chances at time when he did not need to.

As for how many yards you need to throw for to win a SB? come on Wilson did it in Seattle was not their passing game was ranked about the bottom of the league, Cam Newton won it and same deal. These guys are never going to be Rodgers but they can and have won, hell they have as many SB rings as Rodgers has.

Can someone fill me in on when the Cam and the Panthers won a Super Bowl?

Wilson and Seattle, yes their passing game was ranked near the bottom of the league. But there are a few differences. #1, that defense was otherworldly. I like our defense right now but it bears zero comparison to that 2013 Seahawks defense.

#2, referencing your statement earlier that you win by scoring more points than the other team, Seattle and Wilson had the 8th ranked scoring offense in 2013. Right now our Cowboys are 25th in the league in points scoring.

The "run game and defense" formula works if you find a way to get the ball in the end zone.

In theory you are right. There are multiple ways to skin a cat. But for you to say that you "don't assume jack" is inaccurate.
In point of fact, you are assuming that because this formula worked for Seattle, it can and will work for us too. And that so far has proven to be an inaccurate assumption.

We have the top 3 defense. We have the #1 run game. Yet we're .500. Something ain't clicking. One guess as to what it is.....

 

[Doomsday101]

If his strength isn't passing the ball then he shouldn't be the QB here.

Last time I checked, Cam Newton and Russell Wilson have much better arm talent and pocket skills than Dak Prescott. Which is why he throws for 190 yards a game.

Wilson avg 209 in his SB year not exactly lighting up the league.

 

[Doomsday101]

Can someone fill me in on when the Cam and the Panthers won a Super Bowl?

Wilson and Seattle, yes their passing game was ranked near the bottom of the league. But there are a few differences. #1, that defense was otherworldly. I like our defense right now but it bears zero comparison to that 2013 Seahawks defense.

#2, referencing your statement earlier that you win by scoring more points than the other team, Seattle and Wilson had the 8th ranked scoring offense in 2013. Right now our Cowboys are 25th in the league in points scoring.

The "run game and defense" formula works if you find a way to get the ball in the end zone.

In theory you are right. There are multiple ways to skin a cat. But for you to say that you "don't assume jack" is inaccurate.
In point of fact, you are assuming that because this formula worked for Seattle, it can and will work for us too. And that so far has proven to be an inaccurate assumption.

We have the top 3 defense. We have the #1 run game. Yet we're .500. Something ain't clicking. One guess as to what it is.....

It is not an assumption that you don't need to be a top rated passing team to win including the SB that is a proven fact and my statement was that style of offense can win, not that Dallas would, that is yet to be determined. I have also stated that Dak future is uncertain and it will fall to him to show he can run this style of offense and be successful doing so in terms of helping this team win games.
I do agree we have a top 4 defense and a #2 rushing team currently, I think it is important for the coaches to continue to play to Dak strength and stop trying to make him into a pocket passer. Media in Dallas sees this as well, when they get Dak active in the run game his confidence behind center seems to increase and he starts hitting his passes.

 

[G2]

Wilson avg 209 in his SB year not exactly lighting up the league.

They were balanced. You would think fans would understand that better after having a QB who threw a ton and never won anything in the postseason.

 

[Doomsday101]

They were balanced. You would think fans would understand that better after having a QB who threw a ton and never won anything in the postseason.

I get it that many want a pocket QB that is fine. Myself I love seeing a QB like a Rodgers, Brees and Brady. They are great QB's However there are not a lot of Rodgers or Brees or Brady's out there. Right now the job belongs to Dak and it will fall to him to go out and do his job to help this team win with an added burden of doing so with only 1 WR he has extensive playing time with. If he fails then Dallas will be back in the hunt for a QB something many here seem to think is as easy as dialing 1-800 -QB as BP put it when dealing with piss poor QB we had when he got to Dallas.

 

[Aviano90]

I get it that many want a pocket QB that is fine. Myself I love seeing a QB like a Rodgers, Brees and Brady. They are great QB's However there are not a lot of Rodgers or Brees or Brady's out there. Right now the job belongs to Dak and it will fall to him to go out and do his job to help this team win with an added burden of doing so with only 1 WR he has extensive playing time with. If he fails then Dallas will be back in the hunt for a QB something many here seem to think is as easy as dialing 1-800 -QB as BP put it when dealing with piss poor QB we had when he got to Dallas.

That's right. We have Dak. That's who we need to win with.
We have Heath and not Earl Thomas. That's who we need to win with.
We have Garrett and not Belichick. That's who we need to win with.
We have Maher instead of Bailey.
We have Swaim instead of Gronkowski.
We have Gallup instead of Antonio Brown.

When the team goes out and wins by 33 points against a team that hardly anyone thought we would actually win, we don't need to whine about who we have.

 

[G2]

I get it that many want a pocket QB that is fine. Myself I love seeing a QB like a Rodgers, Brees and Brady. They are great QB's However there are not a lot of Rodgers or Brees or Brady's out there. Right now the job belongs to Dak and it will fall to him to go out and do his job to help this team win with an added burden of doing so with only 1 WR he has extensive playing time with. If he fails then Dallas will be back in the hunt for a QB something many here seem to think is as easy as dialing 1-800 -QB as BP put it when dealing with piss poor QB we had when he got to Dallas.

The 3 you mentioned are elite. That doesn't mean a team can't be successful if they're not.

 

[CowboysExchange]

Well we line up in the same monotonous te formations without a Gronk or Kelce on every play. We never run any 2 rb or 4 wr sets and our tes are subpar receivers.

We rely on a te core to play every passing snap but there is no potency or enough production to overcome the monotony and their overinvolvement. We can't consistently beat the blitz on 3rd down in the same formations and personnel groups for 10 years

We continually throw 3 yard check downs to our tes which hasn't ever worked but we stick with it year after year hoping one of these tes morph into a receiver for just 1 game but they never catch any passes within any significance in the 4th quarter when it matters all year.

If we had 2 Zeke's on the bench this coaching staff would still run the same single back formation or a blocking fb w no dual threat at rb. There's no integration with our rbs even though most any running back in the league could run behind this oline

 

[Doomsday101]

The 3 you mentioned are elite. That doesn't mean a team can't be successful if they're not.

I agree, I think Dallas can be successful with Dak if he is allowed to play to his strengths.