Why Hasn't Dalton Shultz Signed A Long Term Contract Yet

[CowboysExchange]

And you were showing a hint of reality. That didn't last long.

First, It's not really a 2 TE offense. We use 3 WR's consistently, and 4 some of the time, which we couldn't use if we were using 2 TE's all the time. 2 TE's are just another of many packages the team uses, not the standard.

Jarwin did not play 50% of the snaps over the year. He played 47% of the snaps in the 8 games that he played. Schultz played 81% of the snaps over the season, so he wasn't even every down. The others just had a small taste of the overall playing time.

As for 2020, time to move along. It's rare for anyone to reach a top level in his first year as a starter, so it's ridiculous to ignore his 2nd year as a starter and act like the 1st one is his standard. Even so, he was about 11th in TE production in 2020 as I recall, and he progressed in his 2nd year starting. Judge him by that.

Witten only scored more than 6 tds in 3 seasons. He had (1) 7 TD season (1) 8 TD Season and (1) 9 TD season in his whole career.

So 6 Tds would be a Witten'like benchmark. And I wouldn't quite compare him to #82 in his prime. Esp on 3rd down and against man to man coverage

 

[TequilaCowboy]

I hope Schultz doesn't get a chance to sign a long term deal in Dallas. I feel he will have his best year this year due to WR problems/issues. They will have a hard time getting open quickly and Dak will check down to Schultz, Zeke or Pollard.

 

[OmerV]

Throw some projections out there of what kind of realistic #'s ya think he'll put up next year. I'm going with an avg. Esp with the dip in te and wr potency around him.

I'm going with 65 balls 676 yards and 6 tds. I think those are pretty generous stats for a possession receiving te

If we get a better replacement than Jarwin and Cooper and healthy gallop back it may change later

It all depends on the overall effectiveness of the offense. If the offense as a whole is strong, there is no reason Schultz can't at least put up the numbers he did last year.

 

[OmerV]

Maybe Schultz will catch 75 balls for 780 yards and 6 tds. Either way that's pretty generous stats for having a drop off at #2 te and every wr position also.

I hope you're not expecting him to put up 4 tds against Philly every year. Js.

They had big time Lb problems last year and I bet they won't overlook Schultz again this year.

And maybe he will do more or maybe less. It's futile to try and get too specific. In yardage I think he could be anywhere from 700-1,000 yards, and TD's anywhere from 6-10.

Those upper ranges would probably not have been possible if he were sharing balls with a healthy Cooper, Lamb and Gallup, but with Cooper gone and Gallup maybe getting a slow start to the season he may get more looks. Obviously some depends on pass blocking and effectiveness of the running game to take pressure off the passing game.

 

[OmerV]

Witten only scored more than 6 tds in 3 seasons. He had (1) 7 TD season (1) 8 TD Season and (1) 9 TD season in his whole career.

So 6 Tds would be a Witten'like benchmark. And I wouldn't quite compare him to #82 in his prime. Esp on 3rd down and against man to man coverage

You gotta quit talking about Witten, Swain, Gathers, Escobar, Hanna etc ... Schultz ain't them, and what they did does not dictate what Schultz does. Schultz is just entering into his 3rd year as the starter, and his first 2 years went well, and he showed improvement and performed last year at a level that was well above average. Time will tell if that continues or improves, or even declines, not what Witten or anyone else did.

 

[CowboysExchange]

You gotta quit talking about Witten, Swain, Gathers, Escobar, Hanna etc ... Schultz ain't them, and what they did does not dictate what Schultz does. Schultz is just entering into his 3rd year as the starter, and his first 2 years went well, and he showed improvement and performed last year at a level that was well above average. Time will tell if that continues or improves, or even declines, not what Witten or anyone else did.

Schultz has a little more athleticism than #82 but imo hes still a possession receiving te.

Ya don't see too many possession receiving tes putting up 100 catches, 1000 yards, and 10 tds a year.

Maybe 100 catches, 1000 yards and 6 tds

 

[CowboysExchange]

And maybe he will do more or maybe less. It's futile to try and get too specific. In yardage I think he could be anywhere from 700-1,000 yards, and TD's anywhere from 6-10.

Those upper ranges would probably not have been possible if he were sharing balls with a healthy Cooper, Lamb and Gallup, but with Cooper gone and Gallup maybe getting a slow start to the season he may get more looks. Obviously some depends on pass blocking and effectiveness of the running game to take pressure off the passing game.

You seem to be looking at Schultz as if our wrs are taking catches away from him and he has a higher Ceiling like a kelce. Lol.

If he's getting 10 tds a year he's gonna be drawing man to man maybe even double coverage every snap. Lol

I think he's more of a take what the defense gives ya possession receiving checkdown te like Witten. And our top 3 wrs and #2 te are drawing coverage away from him.

I think ya got it backwards.

Keep in mind he went 16 games with only 6 tds last year before that rest your starters blowout game against Philly where he got the last 2 Tds.

Also keep in mind he went a stretch of 9 games w only 1 TD and only scored 2 tds against non division opponents in 12 games last year.

I think youre way overprojecting his talent level.

And overvaluing his 4 tds against the Eagles.

I don't think he's gonna draw the same type of Coverage without Jarwin and Cooper.

And I don't think he can beat man to man consistently to be that Kelce type of te. I think he has a Jarwin type of ceiling. And I figure Philly is gonna be game planning against Schultz alot differently.

If you're playing from behind he's not the guy ya want to go to imo

 

[CowboysExchange]

Schultz is avg like 7 yards per catch in the air an 10.4 ypc on avg.

He's not the kinda te that's gonna catch a ball 25-30 yards down field consistently and run another 10-30 yards for a TD like Kelce, Gronk, Kittle, or even a Jared Cook for that matter. Lol.

I think you need to watch his YouTube highlights and dive into his stats and then give some reasonable projections based upon him facing man to man on every snap.

You always overhype what this te core can do every year. Imo

Otherwise I wouldn't have to bring up other names like Witten, Swaim, Escobar, Hanna, Phillips, Gathers, who played in this Exact same offense for 12+ years btw.

Even Schultz can recognize this offense has less potency w/o Cooper. And if ya go back to his interviews he always talks about the guys around him are the reason he's been able to get so many great opportunities.

That's what I like about Schultz. Hes not a koolaide salesman like other tes from the past

 

[CowboysExchange]

It's just too bad we don't have 2 Dalton Schultz's to run this 12 personell led offense.

I think having a 1 player te core is asking way too much from him. I think he'll perform better with at least 1 more avg te drawing coverage away from him

I think we're setting him up for failure by not getting some decent fa tes to build up the te core around him just like we did with #82 when he was here

It's hard to block on every running play and be a great receiving threat also. Especially in the 4th quarter when some playoff Caliber LB or DL has been busting your chops for 3 Quarters

 

[Verdict]

It’s a random thought, but I got to thinking that the Cowboys might draft a tight end or two and then move Schultz for a pick on draft day. We probably couldn’t get that lucky, but it’s a possibility.

 

[OmerV]

Schultz has a little more athleticism than #82 but imo hes still a possession receiving te.

Ya don't see too many possession receiving tes putting up 100 catches, 1000 yards, and 10 tds a year.

Maybe 100 catches, 1000 yards and 6 tds

I was presenting a range, not saying he would get the top of the range in all categories. If he got 1,000 yds and 6 TD's that would be huge though. Nothing at all to put down.

And he can get downfield and run after the catch. Keep in mind that with Cooper, Gallup, Lamb and Wilson they had plenty of downfield firepower and didn't need him to do that frequently.

 

[OmerV]

You seem to be looking at Schultz as if our wrs are taking catches away from him and he has a higher Ceiling like a kelce. Lol.

If he's getting 10 tds a year he's gonna be drawing man to man maybe even double coverage every snap. Lol

I think he's more of a take what the defense gives ya possession receiving checkdown te like Witten. And our top 3 wrs and #2 te are drawing coverage away from him.

I think ya got it backwards.

Keep in mind he went 16 games with only 6 tds last year before that rest your starters blowout game against Philly where he got the last 2 Tds.

Also keep in mind he went a stretch of 9 games w only 1 TD and only scored 2 tds against non division opponents in 12 games last year.

I think youre way overprojecting his talent level.

And overvaluing his 4 tds against the Eagles.

I don't think he's gonna draw the same type of Coverage without Jarwin and Cooper.

And I don't think he can beat man to man consistently to be that Kelce type of te. I think he has a Jarwin type of ceiling. And I figure Philly is gonna be game planning against Schultz alot differently.

If you're playing from behind he's not the guy ya want to go to imo

Do you honestly think having Cooper, Gallup, Lamb and Wilson didn't cut into the balls there were to go around? It's insane to suggest otherwise. The OC and QB can only spread the ball around so much.

And no, I never suggested anything at all like him having a higher ceiling than Kelce. That's a completely nonsensical remark on your part.

I had a little hope you were inching into some semblance of reason, but here you go talking nonsense again.

The one thing I will grant is having other weapons does help him get open, but if you are reasonable you will admit it also limits the routes he runs because they didn't need more people downfield. The receiving group is evolving. How it plays out is yet to be seen.

 

[CowboysExchange]

Do you honestly think having Cooper, Gallup, Lamb and Wilson didn't cut into the balls there were to go around? It's insane to suggest otherwise. The OC and QB can only spread the ball around so much.

And no, I never suggested anything at all like him having a higher ceiling than Kelce. That's a completely nonsensical remark on your part.

I had a little hope you were inching into some semblance of reason, but here you go talking nonsense again.

The one thing I will grant is having other weapons does help him get open, but if you are reasonable you will admit it also limits the routes he runs because they didn't need more people downfield. The receiving group is evolving. How it plays out is yet to be seen.

No I do not. I dont see it your way for a few reasons why.

First When Jarwin was playing he was more of the intermediate target (more often than not or at least 50/50) and Schultz was following in behind him with the screens and short passes etc. Jarwin was blocking more out front.

I haven't seen a #2 Te besides Jarwin thats gonna draw any coverage away from Schultz as a receiver like that. (Aka McKeon and Sprinkle) lmao

Point #2 is I think the defense will (man up on Schultz) and blanket or use containment coverage on the #2 te if they even cover him at all (ex: Hanna) weve seen that alot

#3- I think our tes "openess" was a combination of the defensive focussed on stopping the run which was great for the first 7+ games with 2 decent receiving/blocking tes.

#4 if we're running the ball effectively there prolly won't be as big a need or plays to dink and dunk with Schultz. Hopefully it will open up more plays down field

#5 I think our top 3 wrs potency drew alot of coverage from our tes

#6 why there may more targets to Spread around w/o Cooper I don't think it makes fundamental sense to overtarget a receiving te w a 7 yard avg catch radius and a 10.4 ypc average. Esp a player who has a low scoring rate per catch.

#7 I think when we're playing from behind moreso Dak is gonna have to target players who have more big play capabilities

#8 I think Schultz will draw more man to man coverage this year. I think he'll win more battles against lessor teams but overall his targets may increase but his catch rate per target will decrease and level out if he's getting targeted deeper and getting 12.5 to 13.5 ypc averages

So theoretically there's prolly gonna be more opportunities to catch more balls I'm just guessing he'll be drawing more defenders now that he's getting paid 11 million dollars and there's more film and less potency in the offense around him. Etc. It just depends on the type of Coverage he draws.

Take what the defense gives ya possession receiving tes don't usually avg 12-13 ypc or 10 tds.

Defenses don't give ya that kind of Scoring production. Just receptions js

 

[CowboysExchange]

I was presenting a range, not saying he would get the top of the range in all categories. If he got 1,000 yds and 6 TD's that would be huge though. Nothing at all to put down.

And he can get downfield and run after the catch. Keep in mind that with Cooper, Gallup, Lamb and Wilson they had plenty of downfield firepower and didn't need him to do that frequently.

Kudos to Schultz if he does. Especially if we're playing mainly out of 11 personnel.

Schultz 8 tds
Jarwin 2 Tds
McKeon 1 Td
Steele 1 TD

But that would still only account for 6 of the 12 Tds our te core avged last year which was pretty good #'s

But we have to at least give Jarwin some credit for his 2 Tds, drawing lb defenders away from Schultz as a receiver, and being a pretty good Blocker for run support and those screens.

My concern has less to do with Schultz w the exception of him getting injured

My concern is about the production of the te core and the 12 personnel offense. And how much is it gonna weaken his abilities and our offensive potency.

If McKeon and Sprinkle are the other cogs in our te core I just don't see the same potency as a te core, as a run attack, as a passing attack, or see any ability for Schultz to be the individual player he was last year

I think how well the #2 te plays in the 12 personnel as both a receiving and blocking threat has a bigger impact than some seem to give credit for.

Witten and none of our other teams ever won beans w this dominant 12 personnel scheme avg 5-6 tds a year. With no sauce at the #2 te position

 

[CowboysExchange]

Avg last year
Cooper 8 tds
Lamb 6 Tds
Gallop- 5 tds
Wilson 5 tds

Vs.

Higher projections next year
Lamb 8 tds
Gallop- 5 tds
Washington 3 tds

I can't even hardly project generously higher stats for our top 3 wrs with a dropoff in our te core or possibly our running game.

But somewhere there's still about 7-8 TDs gone in fa from wrs and 4-6 from our te core

Asking a couple of rookies to replace 1300+ yards and 8-12 tds is kind of a stretch.

I'm drafting Wr, Te, and Rb oline and big run stopper and if the RB is better than Zeke I'm cutting bait to the highest bidder right now, signing Pollard and spreading that dead money out as long as I can. Lol.

I'm trying to win baby. Zeke is gonna be gone after this year anyways. He earned his money
If someone would take him for 8 million I'd cut bait rn if I could improve my RB core. The money is gone either way.

Call the Raiders. They'll take any washed up mediocre player we got. And they need a good rb

 

[CowboysExchange]

Do you honestly think having Cooper, Gallup, Lamb and Wilson didn't cut into the balls there were to go around? It's insane to suggest otherwise. The OC and QB can only spread the ball around so much.

And no, I never suggested anything at all like him having a higher ceiling than Kelce. That's a completely nonsensical remark on your part.

I had a little hope you were inching into some semblance of reason, but here you go talking nonsense again.

The one thing I will grant is having other weapons does help him get open, but if you are reasonable you will admit it also limits the routes he runs because they didn't need more people downfield. The receiving group is evolving. How it plays out is yet to be seen.

If he ran those deeper routes, caught 90 catches a year, for 12-13 ypc averages and scored 10 tds a year he'd be a Travis Kelce bruh. Cmon Rogers Lol.

If youre an 10 TD a year te or wr you're gonna draw man to man and most likely double coverage on every single snap because you'd be the BEST SKILLED PLAYER ON THIS TEAM

Schultz is drawing zone and blanket coverage and maybe man to man on 3rd down. Lmao

You have Schultzs ceiling pegged too high and way overvalued.

He's just a Witten'esque 2.0 possession receiving te that sneaks open in zone coverage who thrives on 5-9 yard radius targets (7 yard avgs) and has a 3.4 rac avg.

He's like a 3rd or 4th slot receiver as far as talent goes. Not a player you really want to have more than 45-50 catches a year because he has very limited big play abilities

Esp on 3rd down and against man to man coverage. He'd prolly have like 45 catches if he was drawing man coverage every snap like all of the rest of the Avg tes in the League are.

He snuck into that last game w Philly w 6 tds and pulled a Jarwin against rest your starters.

Your overhyping a guy that only put up 4 tds against teams not named the eagles.

He's not a player that needs an increased role as a receiver. As Garrett would say he's just a complimentary player that isn't a big piece of the puzzle

He was wayyyyy overtargeted because teams dared us to beat them w our barely covered tes. The more success he has the more he'll get manned up on and he'll still be that 10 yard possession receiver w 4-6 tds

If they do overtarget him and throw him a 100 balls for 1040 yards it won't change the outcome of the W/L column in a POSITIVE WAY

 

[OmerV]

If he ran those deeper routes, caught 90 catches a year, for 12-13 ypc averages and scored 10 tds a year he'd be a Travis Kelce bruh. Cmon Rogers Lol.

I stopped reading after this first sentence because here you go just making things up again. I never remotely suggested he would put up those kind of numbers, and many times made the point he is not at that kind of Kelsey/Kittle type level.

What it is about you that makes you feel that ignoring what someone actually writes, and instead pulling completely fabricated nonsense out of your backside is an appropriate way to form an argument?

 

[CowboysExchange]

I stopped reading after this first sentence because here you go just making things up again. I never remotely suggested he would put up those kind of numbers, and many times made the point he is not at that kind of Kelsey/Kittle type level.

What it is about you that makes you feel that ignoring what someone actually writes, and instead pulling completely fabricated nonsense out of your backside is an appropriate way to form an argument?

I gave ya all of my reasons why I think Schultz ceiling is maxed out and why I think that ceiling will fall.

He's playing double duty positions as a Blocker and Receiver.

So he's already being asked to do too much.

It's no wonder why he fades away in the 2nd half of games and esp in the 4th Quarter.

You push a player to his Max and more often than not he will break.

Ya take all of the talent away around him and that avg'ness will jump right out at ya when he's become more of a focal point

I'm guessing down to about the 15th best te in the League

That's about where most of the good possession receiving tes end up. Between 11th best to last. Not too many ever crack the top 10

 

[CowboysExchange]

I stopped reading after this first sentence because here you go just making things up again. I never remotely suggested he would put up those kind of numbers, and many times made the point he is not at that kind of Kelsey/Kittle type level.

What it is about you that makes you feel that ignoring what someone actually writes, and instead pulling completely fabricated nonsense out of your backside is an appropriate way to form an argument?

There was a 2 point conversion Schultz caught last year short of the goal line and he only needed 6 inches to 1 Foot to cross the goal line man on man.

Any Top Te in the League woulda powered his way into the end zone and converted that 2 point conversion but he came up short.

Sometimes it's the lil things that are more telling about a player than just the black and white stats.

 

[kskboys]

There was a 2 point conversion against Carolina that Schultz caught last year short of the goal line and he only needed about a foot to cross the goal line man on man. Any Top 10 Te in the League woulda powered his way in and converted that 2 point conversion. Sometimes it's the little things like that jump out and Scream Average te at ya. Js

Jackie Smith is a HOFer.