Why is Moose not in the Ring of Honor?

[Ratmatt]

When it comes to the Ring of Honor, the guy in the photo is the elephant in the room. 4 Pro Bowls, 1 first team All-Pro, 1977 Defensive Player of the Year, 1977 Super Bowl co-MVP, HOF 1970s all-decade 2nd team. Yes, he died of cancer at age 51. Yes, his closest surviving family member would have to go out on the field at Cowboys Stadium. So what. Put him in already.

100 percent agree with you!

 

[Ratmatt]

I don't think that is true. The word 'Honor' is there for a reason. It was not only about actions on the field, it was also about who brought 'honor' to the Dallas Cowboys organization off the field.

Read the list. Full of great football players for sure, but also great men. But it's a small list for a reason.

I think only 7-8 players received the honor during the first three decades of the Cowboys existence, which makes the RoH a coveted accolade, true to the dream envisioned by Schramm, its creator. Are we to believe that there were only 7 or 8 great players over the first three decades?

(Oh, btw, Schramm became only the 12th person selected to the Ring of Honor; the award was given posthumously in October 2003, a few months after he died.)

Irvin was great on the field, but brought shame to the organization off the field. Once he went in they should have changed the name to 'Ring of Talent' or something else, .. and taken 'Honor' out of the name.

JMO

Added: Ring of Honor inductees have been chosen by the former president-general manager, Tex Schramm and then by owner Jerry Jones. Schramm set a precedent by placing a high value on the character of the inductees. There was controversy over the selection of Michael Irvin due to his drug charges.

It would be kind of hard to have a Cowboys ring of honor without Michael Irvin.

 

[muck4doo]

When it comes to the Ring of Honor, the guy in the photo is the elephant in the room. 4 Pro Bowls, 1 first team All-Pro, 1977 Defensive Player of the Year, 1977 Super Bowl co-MVP, HOF 1970s all-decade 2nd team. Yes, he died of cancer at age 51. Yes, his closest surviving family member would have to go out on the field at Cowboys Stadium. So what. Put him in already.

It's ridiculous that Harvey Martin isn't in there. The guy was an absolute beast. He had some problems post-Cowboys, but I kind of blame the Cowboys on that. They should have taken care of the guy after he retired. After what he did for the Cowboys, they owed him at least that. Now he's dead. Put him in the ring. Jerry.

 

[guag]

Yep. And you know what that means: Dale Hellestrae.

I was waiting for someone to mention that name, lol.

If there was a "2nd team ROH" I'd nominate Chad Hennings. Great character guy, solid contributor, Air Force vet. All around great guy. 27 sacks for a DT isn't too shabby considering his career started at 26, and was mostly a reserve (first start wasn't until 1995). Wow, just crazy to think we had guys like this on the DL as backups in those years. Hennings would start for us today.

 

[Bullflop]

There'll always be lot of "otherwise deserving" guys who never quite make it into the ROH. Needless to say, the "Moose" is very well respected by the throngs of Cowboys fans who observed his performances throughout the years. There'll never be enough ex-players in the ROH to suit many diehard fans who are only too well aware of what so many former players deserve. Unfortunately, it's simply a highly exclusive club that only a privileged few are allowed to join. It surely won't hamper those familiar with Moose Johnson's past to appreciate him, though.

 

[WV Cowboy]

It would be kind of hard to have a Cowboys ring of honor without Michael Irvin.

A lot of times/situations in life it is hard to do what is right.

 

[joseephuss]

A lot of times/situations in life it is hard to do what is right.

And Jerry Jones did the right thing. He honored Michael Irvin's accomplishments with the Dallas Cowboys. That is what the Ring of Honor is about.

 

[WV Cowboy]

And Jerry Jones did the right thing. He honored Michael Irvin's accomplishments with the Dallas Cowboys. That is what the Ring of Honor is about.

Have you done your homework? Did you read about what Tex Schramm envisioned?

Jerry is in charge of the ROH now, he can do whatever he wants, .. but he has changed what Tex originally envisioned.

The reason Tex would not have put MI in the ROH, is the same reason he never put Harvey Martin in, ... off the field stuff.

It certainly can't be his on the field performance because he was a great player.

A quote about Harvey Martin from Tex: Former Cowboys GM Tex Schramm stated: "He'll be remembered as one of the great Cowboys of the golden years ... He was a great player, one of the first great pass rushers".

But for Tex, that was not the only criteria. There was more to it than what they did on the field to get in the ROH. That's what set it apart, .. that's what made it such a rare honor.

He never put HM in the ROH. It was important to him what kind of person they were off the field.

Harvey Martin is a perfect example of why Tex would have never put MI in his ROH.

It's obvious you agree with Jerry, but disagree with Tex. I disagree with Jerry, and agree with Tex.

 

[tyke1doe]

Arghhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!,

Yes, sir, you are correct!

That bothers me more than "the catch"

What could have been. Sigh.

 

[joseephuss]

Have you done your homework? Did you read about what Tex Schramm envisioned?

Jerry is in charge of the ROH now, he can do whatever he wants, .. but he has changed what Tex originally envisioned.

The reason Tex would not have put MI in the ROH, is the same reason he never put Harvey Martin in, ... off the field stuff.

It certainly can't be his on the field performance because he was a great player.

A quote about Harvey Martin from Tex: Former Cowboys GM Tex Schramm stated: "He'll be remembered as one of the great Cowboys of the golden years ... He was a great player, one of the first great pass rushers".

But for Tex, that was not the only criteria. There was more to it than what they did on the field to get in the ROH. That's what set it apart, .. that's what made it such a rare honor.

He never put HM in the ROH. It was important to him what kind of person they were off the field.

Harvey Martin is a perfect example of why Tex would have never put MI in his ROH.

It's obvious you agree with Jerry, but disagree with Tex. I disagree with Jerry, and agree with Tex.

I go by what Tex Schramm actually did and not by some random quote you find from Tex. Schramm put Don Meredith in the Ring of Honor. That ruins any argument you have about an off the field high character standard. One you choose to keep ignoring. Unless you think Cliff Harris, Drew Pearson and Rayfield Wright were despicable people because Tex Schramm didn't enshrine them into the Ring of Honor. They must have all had horrible off the field issues for Schramm to no include them.

It isn't as if every player in the RoH was inducted the year after they retired. There was usually a waiting period of a few years while some guys had to wait many years. Lee Roy Jordan retired in 1976 and didn't get into the RoH until 1989 and is considered the last guy to go in as part of Schramm's watch. Harvey Martin retired in 1983. It isn't unrealistic to believe that given a couple of more years that Schramm would have put him into the RoH, but Schramm was fully gone from Dallas at the end of 1989.

 

[WV Cowboy]

I go by what Tex Schramm actually did and not by some random quote you find from Tex. Schramm put Don Meredith in the Ring of Honor. That ruins any argument you have about an off the field high character standard. One you choose to keep ignoring. Unless you think Cliff Harris, Drew Pearson and Rayfield Wright were despicable people because Tex Schramm didn't enshrine them into the Ring of Honor. They must have all had horrible off the field issues for Schramm to no include them.

It isn't as if every player in the RoH was inducted the year after they retired. There was usually a waiting period of a few years while some guys had to wait many years. Lee Roy Jordan retired in 1976 and didn't get into the RoH until 1989 and is considered the last guy to go in as part of Schramm's watch. Harvey Martin retired in 1983. It isn't unrealistic to believe that given a couple of more years that Schramm would have put him into the RoH, but Schramm was fully gone from Dallas at the end of 1989.

It is not my argument, you need to read up a little on this.

Jones put Jordan in the ROH, .. I'm done here.

 

[joseephuss]

It is not my argument, you need to read up a little on this.

Jones put Jordan in the ROH, .. I'm done here.

What do I need to read? I can plainly see that Schramm put Meredith in the RoH. That destroys any idea that off the field character had any impact on a player getting into the Ring of Honor. It only mattered that Don Meredith was a great player on the flied and deserving of being honored. It is your argument and you keep speaking for Tex, but Tex's actions show that the off the field character didn't matter. Again I don't see off the field character issues for Cliff Harris, Rayfield Wright or Drew Pearson. Tex had his own personal reasons for not inducting those players, but it isn't something you can define.

 

[tyke1doe]

Why is Moose not in the Ring of Honor?

Because he's not Elkigible?

 

[WV Cowboy]

What do I need to read?

- -
The Dallas Cowboys Ring of Honor (RoH) was a ring around Texas Stadium in Irving, Texas and currently around AT&T Stadium in Arlington, Texas which honors former players, coaches and club officials who made outstanding contributions to the Dallas Cowboys football organization.

The Ring of Honor began on November 23, 1975, which was designated in Dallas as Bob Lilly Day. On that day, at what was considered the first Cowboys Reunion, the team unveiled Lilly's name and jersey number (74) beneath the press box during half time. As the first honoree, Lilly (who had retired from the NFL in July of '75 after 14 years) donned his Cowboy uniform once more and graciously accepted the honor, along with numerous other gifts, which included a car, a gun and a hunting dog. Also present at the historic event were Cowboys owner Clint Murchison, president/general manager Tex Schramm and Head Coach Tom Landry. As the first inductee, Lilly has the added distinction of returning to present each new member in the RoH. Only nine players received the honor during the first three decades of the Cowboys existence, making the RoH a coveted accolade, true to the dream envisioned by Schramm, its creator. Schramm became only the 12th person selected to the Ring of Honor; the award was given posthumously in October 2003, a few months after he died.

In 2005, an unprecedented three former Cowboys all-stars were simultaneously inducted during half time ceremonies on Monday Night Football. Troy Aikman, Emmitt Smith, and Michael Irvin, known as "The Triplets", were part of the 1990s Three-Time Super Bowl Championship Cowboys team.

Ring of Honor inductees have been chosen by the former president-general manager, Tex Schramm and then by owner Jerry Jones. Schramm set a precedent by placing a high value on the character of the inductees. There was controversy over the selection of Michael Irvin due to his drug charges.
- -

 

[joseephuss]

- -
The Dallas Cowboys Ring of Honor (RoH) was a ring around Texas Stadium in Irving, Texas and currently around AT&T Stadium in Arlington, Texas which honors former players, coaches and club officials who made outstanding contributions to the Dallas Cowboys football organization.

The Ring of Honor began on November 23, 1975, which was designated in Dallas as Bob Lilly Day. On that day, at what was considered the first Cowboys Reunion, the team unveiled Lilly's name and jersey number (74) beneath the press box during half time. As the first honoree, Lilly (who had retired from the NFL in July of '75 after 14 years) donned his Cowboy uniform once more and graciously accepted the honor, along with numerous other gifts, which included a car, a gun and a hunting dog. Also present at the historic event were Cowboys owner Clint Murchison, president/general manager Tex Schramm and Head Coach Tom Landry. As the first inductee, Lilly has the added distinction of returning to present each new member in the RoH. Only nine players received the honor during the first three decades of the Cowboys existence, making the RoH a coveted accolade, true to the dream envisioned by Schramm, its creator. Schramm became only the 12th person selected to the Ring of Honor; the award was given posthumously in October 2003, a few months after he died.

In 2005, an unprecedented three former Cowboys all-stars were simultaneously inducted during half time ceremonies on Monday Night Football. Troy Aikman, Emmitt Smith, and Michael Irvin, known as "The Triplets", were part of the 1990s Three-Time Super Bowl Championship Cowboys team.

Ring of Honor inductees have been chosen by the former president-general manager, Tex Schramm and then by owner Jerry Jones. Schramm set a precedent by placing a high value on the character of the inductees. There was controversy over the selection of Michael Irvin due to his drug charges.
- -

There was never a precedent because Schramm inducted Don Meredith as the 2nd player ever to get into the RoH in 1976 only a year after the RoH was started. If it was qll about high character then Meredith would not have been selected. There is either a high off the field character standard or there is not. Clearly Meredith's induction illustrates there is not. Paragraph after paragraph can be written saying high character mattered to Schramm, but it didn't(demonstrated by his own actions) and it shouldn't.

If anything Jerry Jones standard for the Ring of Honor is higher than that of Tex Schramm. Tex inducted 3 guys not in the Pro-Football Hall of Fame representing 50% of the guys he put in the Ring of Honor. Jerry Jones also put 3 guys not in the HoF and they represent only. 21.4% of the guys he has put in the RoH.

The "Honor" in the Ring of Honor represents honoring the player.

The only one who knows what standards used by Tex Schramm for putting guys into the Ring of Honor is Tex Schramm. There is no pattern to the 6 guys he officially put in. I count 6 1/2 with Lee Roy Jordan. While officially Jordan went in under Jerry Jones watch, I recall reading a theory about Tex encouraging Jerry to put Jordan in the RoH during the brief transition time that Tex worked under Jerry.

 

[WV Cowboy]

LOL, .. must be great to make your own stuff up as you go.

 

[joseephuss]

LOL, .. must be great to make your own stuff up as you go.

I have not made up a single thing. As I expected, you don't have an answer as to how Don Meredith is in the Ring of Honor if off the field character is of such high importance so you just keep ignoring it.

 

[WV Cowboy]

I have not made up a single thing. As I expected, you don't have an answer as to how Don Meredith is in the Ring of Honor if off the field character is of such high importance so you just keep ignoring it.

LOL! Me ignore it??

I have asked you twice to share with us why Meredith would not have qualified.

You have not given one reason.

My original point in this thread was that Irvin's off field actions did not bring any honor to the Dallas Cowboys organization.

The rest has either been stuff you have made up, rabbit holes you have taken us down or straw men that have nothing to do with Irvin's actions.

It's obvious that we disagree, which I'm fine with, .. but I would like to hear about how bad Meredith's character was.

 

[joseephuss]

I have not made up a single thing, but it is always nice being called a liar.

I did give reasons why Meredith doesn't qualify for the high off the field character standards that you set. You probably just overlooked that portion of my posts. Off the field he was a hard drinker, a partier and a womanizer. Those typically aren't considered high character standards. As I also already said, those things don't bother me, but I wasn't the one who claimed there was a high character standard to be met. If you had just said something along the lines that criminals shouldn't be a part of the Ring of Honor that would have been one thing. You didn't. Instead you made the claim that there was a very high character standard that should be met and Tex Schramm based his decision on that type of standard. Meredith wasn't a bad guy, but he also wasn't a high character guy. I've read enough of your posts on this board to know that if a guy like Meredith was in the 1960s asked your daughter out you wouldn't be for it. That says a lot about ones high character or lack thereof.