ThreeSportStar80
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Brady Quinn will be a backup QB in three years, another Joey Harrington. I think Russell is like a bigger Warren Moon. a first ballot Hall of Famer. I guess that would explain some of it...
Why is Russell considered better than Quinn???
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starfrombirth
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burmafrd;1415151 said:
Aikman, Bledsoe, Favre, Marino, Rothlesburger, Brad Johnson, Kelly, Elway, and there are a lot more. Do we need to put together a complete list or will these suffice. The list of successful small qb's is all of one and his name is Flutie.
Having said that, I still like quinn better than russell. Something intangible I think but no real reason I can put my finger on.Pokes28
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Personally, I don't thing either one of them is a set the world on fire player. Russell has the wow factor in that he's huge and has rare arm strength. His arm strength is similar to Bledsoe's when he came out of WSU and that is saying something.
If it weren't for Quinn playing for a couple years under Weiss, nobody would care about him and think much more of him than they did Ron Pawlus. His accuracy is very over-rated.
Quinn is more ready to play day one, but that doesn't mean that he's going to be a good NFL QB.
Russell's problems are more an issue with timing. He misses initial reads and doesn't get the ball in on time. His arm strength masks some of that, but it is a very real problem. But it is also a fixable one. Accuracy on the other hand is not.
If you don't have a strong arm (Quinn's arm strength is NFL average at best), you have to be very accurate. He's shown while at ND that while he can throw the spectacular pass from time to time, that he can also miss a wide open receiver while not under pressure. To me, that is very telling. Almost every QB can have a great TD/INT ratio in college. That is really not the primary indicator. You have to look at why they have incompletions, why they have interceptions, etc. Jaworski was breaking down tape of the two of them and he said that well over half of Russell's INTs were caused by WRs not catching very catchable balls and the DBs catching the bounce or by WRs not completing their routes. I didn't get to hear his break down of Quinn.
David Harrell - Pokes
dwh
If it weren't for Quinn playing for a couple years under Weiss, nobody would care about him and think much more of him than they did Ron Pawlus. His accuracy is very over-rated.
Quinn is more ready to play day one, but that doesn't mean that he's going to be a good NFL QB.
Russell's problems are more an issue with timing. He misses initial reads and doesn't get the ball in on time. His arm strength masks some of that, but it is a very real problem. But it is also a fixable one. Accuracy on the other hand is not.
If you don't have a strong arm (Quinn's arm strength is NFL average at best), you have to be very accurate. He's shown while at ND that while he can throw the spectacular pass from time to time, that he can also miss a wide open receiver while not under pressure. To me, that is very telling. Almost every QB can have a great TD/INT ratio in college. That is really not the primary indicator. You have to look at why they have incompletions, why they have interceptions, etc. Jaworski was breaking down tape of the two of them and he said that well over half of Russell's INTs were caused by WRs not catching very catchable balls and the DBs catching the bounce or by WRs not completing their routes. I didn't get to hear his break down of Quinn.
David Harrell - Pokes
dwh
Concord
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I would take Quinn over Russell and Smith dropped because of the National Degrace Game.
One game killed him after all he did in College.
Here's a article about that.
Classic combine confusion
Scouts foolish to ignore QB Smith's college success
Stewart Mandel
Posted: Tuesday February 27, 2007 5:07PM; Updated: Wednesday February 28, 2007 11:11AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/stewart_mandel/02/27/troy.smith/index.html
Troy Smith had a 25-2 record as Ohio State's starting quarterback.
For all that Troy Smith accomplished the past two-plus years at Ohio State, I don't think I've ever been more impressed with him than I am right now. After I read the various reports out of last weekend's NFL combine in Indianapolis, it's become apparent that Smith managed to win a Heisman Trophy, rack up ridiculous passing stats and lead his team to 20 straight victories in spite of the fact he's a crappy quarterback.
Yep. You read that right. The NFL cognoscenti have spoken. After eyeballing Smith in shorts and watching him throw 18 practice passes against no defense, the connoisseurs with the clipboards and the stop watches have decreed that the former Ohio State quarterback, to put it simply, stinks. Once considered a late-first or early second-round pick, Smith will now be fortunate to land in the third or fourth round based on the buzz in Indy.
As one AFC personnel director told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel: "He's six feet tall, he's not a super fast guy and he's not super athletic. ... I don't think he's horrible. He's just a guy."
See what I'm saying? How can you not admire a guy who's short, slow and unathletic yet managed to win the most prestigious award in college football? It's like someone who can't act winning an Oscar. Or someone who can't sing winning American Idol. We already knew about everything Smith overcame in his childhood and early OSU years to achieve gridiron glory, but the fact that he managed to do all that despite being "just a guy?" Wow. I can't even begin to imagine what his stats would have been if he was actually a stud.
Before I continue, let me just make the disclaimer that I have never considered Smith to be a sure-fire Hall of Famer. I realize he has his limitations. For months, however, I've maintained that, if given the opportunity, Smith would establish himself as a solid NFL starter. How did I reach this conclusion? Umm ... by watching him play?
But now it seems that Smith is being lumped in with the Gino Torretta/Chris Weinke/Eric Crouch/Jason White class of Heisman-winning quarterbacks, destined to flame out at the next level. Here's the thing. Torretta was barely a top-20 passer his senior year. Weinke was 87 years old. Crouch ran the option. White had no functioning knees. About the only thing Smith has in common with those guys is the trophy they won.
Well, and one other thing: The national-championship game flop. Smith's nightmare performance against Florida is when all this backlash started. Because he's "just a guy," Smith was unable to escape oncoming Gator pass-rushers/freight trains Jarvis Moss and Derrick Harvey as they routinely plowed through Smith's blockers like they were made of cellophane. As we all know, JaMarcus Russell or Brady Quinn would have spun free of those defenders and completed 70-yard passes.
With such considerable evidence against Smith's worth as a quarterback, I figure there's only one possible explanation for how he won all those games in college: He's an illusionist. Yep. A full-on David Copperfield/David Blaine-caliber performer. All those times you thought you were watching Smith pick apart Texas or throw the game-winning touchdown against Michigan? He was actually throwing incompletions at his receivers' feet. He fooled you.
These NFL scouting guys, however, they don't fall for that stuff. They're too smart. These guys get paid the big bucks precisely because of their ability to spot the previously undetected imperfections of college players that we lay people miss. And boy do they earn every penny, whether by determining Mario Williams to be a better pro prospect than Reggie Bush, that Vince Young won't be able to make the transition to the NFL, that Ernie Sims would be more valuable to the Lions than Matt Leinart or that Drew Brees was only worthy of a second-round pick.
I mention Brees, the former Purdue quarterback-turned-New Orleans Saints Pro Bowler, because he happens to suffer from the same, career-jeopardizing affliction as Troy Smith: Being 6-feet tall. This, according to the scouts, is the single biggest reason Smith might not succeed in the pros. "That's the only negative on the guy," Chiefs president Carl Peterson told the Journal Sentinel. "And [defenders] get bigger every year. It gets more and more difficult to look over guys."
You see, this is why I could never hack it as an NFL personnel guy. Here I was, thinking that most men reach their adult height by the time they're 17 or 18, meaning that if Smith could throw over, say, 6-4 Texas defensive end Tim Crowder in the Buckeyes' game against the Longhorns last September, it stands to reason he would be able to do the same thing when the two face each other in the NFL next season. But according to Peterson, NFL defenders just keep getting bigger. Presumably, in a few years, Crowder will be 7-2, and by then Smith simply won't stand a chance.
"You [reporters] make it seem like being 6 feet is a disease or something," Smith said at the combine. "I stand before you now wanting to talk about some of the positive things that are going on, but yet still we keep on talking about the negatives. I don't understand."
What's not to understand, Troy? The experts have spoken. You're short. You can't throw. And your entire college career was a lie. Enjoy wearing that baseball cap on the sideline next season while charting plays for some undrafted free agent your employer just loves because they don't have to pay him anything and because he's got "tremendous upside."
Don't feel too bad, though. You'll always have that Heisman Trophy. Maybe one day, when your playing career is over, you can let us in on the secret of how you managed to win that thing despite a lack of any discernible talent. Boy -- you sure got us good.
One game killed him after all he did in College.
Here's a article about that.
Classic combine confusion
Scouts foolish to ignore QB Smith's college success
Stewart Mandel
Posted: Tuesday February 27, 2007 5:07PM; Updated: Wednesday February 28, 2007 11:11AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/stewart_mandel/02/27/troy.smith/index.html
Troy Smith had a 25-2 record as Ohio State's starting quarterback.
For all that Troy Smith accomplished the past two-plus years at Ohio State, I don't think I've ever been more impressed with him than I am right now. After I read the various reports out of last weekend's NFL combine in Indianapolis, it's become apparent that Smith managed to win a Heisman Trophy, rack up ridiculous passing stats and lead his team to 20 straight victories in spite of the fact he's a crappy quarterback.
Yep. You read that right. The NFL cognoscenti have spoken. After eyeballing Smith in shorts and watching him throw 18 practice passes against no defense, the connoisseurs with the clipboards and the stop watches have decreed that the former Ohio State quarterback, to put it simply, stinks. Once considered a late-first or early second-round pick, Smith will now be fortunate to land in the third or fourth round based on the buzz in Indy.
As one AFC personnel director told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel: "He's six feet tall, he's not a super fast guy and he's not super athletic. ... I don't think he's horrible. He's just a guy."
See what I'm saying? How can you not admire a guy who's short, slow and unathletic yet managed to win the most prestigious award in college football? It's like someone who can't act winning an Oscar. Or someone who can't sing winning American Idol. We already knew about everything Smith overcame in his childhood and early OSU years to achieve gridiron glory, but the fact that he managed to do all that despite being "just a guy?" Wow. I can't even begin to imagine what his stats would have been if he was actually a stud.
Before I continue, let me just make the disclaimer that I have never considered Smith to be a sure-fire Hall of Famer. I realize he has his limitations. For months, however, I've maintained that, if given the opportunity, Smith would establish himself as a solid NFL starter. How did I reach this conclusion? Umm ... by watching him play?
But now it seems that Smith is being lumped in with the Gino Torretta/Chris Weinke/Eric Crouch/Jason White class of Heisman-winning quarterbacks, destined to flame out at the next level. Here's the thing. Torretta was barely a top-20 passer his senior year. Weinke was 87 years old. Crouch ran the option. White had no functioning knees. About the only thing Smith has in common with those guys is the trophy they won.
Well, and one other thing: The national-championship game flop. Smith's nightmare performance against Florida is when all this backlash started. Because he's "just a guy," Smith was unable to escape oncoming Gator pass-rushers/freight trains Jarvis Moss and Derrick Harvey as they routinely plowed through Smith's blockers like they were made of cellophane. As we all know, JaMarcus Russell or Brady Quinn would have spun free of those defenders and completed 70-yard passes.
With such considerable evidence against Smith's worth as a quarterback, I figure there's only one possible explanation for how he won all those games in college: He's an illusionist. Yep. A full-on David Copperfield/David Blaine-caliber performer. All those times you thought you were watching Smith pick apart Texas or throw the game-winning touchdown against Michigan? He was actually throwing incompletions at his receivers' feet. He fooled you.
These NFL scouting guys, however, they don't fall for that stuff. They're too smart. These guys get paid the big bucks precisely because of their ability to spot the previously undetected imperfections of college players that we lay people miss. And boy do they earn every penny, whether by determining Mario Williams to be a better pro prospect than Reggie Bush, that Vince Young won't be able to make the transition to the NFL, that Ernie Sims would be more valuable to the Lions than Matt Leinart or that Drew Brees was only worthy of a second-round pick.
I mention Brees, the former Purdue quarterback-turned-New Orleans Saints Pro Bowler, because he happens to suffer from the same, career-jeopardizing affliction as Troy Smith: Being 6-feet tall. This, according to the scouts, is the single biggest reason Smith might not succeed in the pros. "That's the only negative on the guy," Chiefs president Carl Peterson told the Journal Sentinel. "And [defenders] get bigger every year. It gets more and more difficult to look over guys."
You see, this is why I could never hack it as an NFL personnel guy. Here I was, thinking that most men reach their adult height by the time they're 17 or 18, meaning that if Smith could throw over, say, 6-4 Texas defensive end Tim Crowder in the Buckeyes' game against the Longhorns last September, it stands to reason he would be able to do the same thing when the two face each other in the NFL next season. But according to Peterson, NFL defenders just keep getting bigger. Presumably, in a few years, Crowder will be 7-2, and by then Smith simply won't stand a chance.
"You [reporters] make it seem like being 6 feet is a disease or something," Smith said at the combine. "I stand before you now wanting to talk about some of the positive things that are going on, but yet still we keep on talking about the negatives. I don't understand."
What's not to understand, Troy? The experts have spoken. You're short. You can't throw. And your entire college career was a lie. Enjoy wearing that baseball cap on the sideline next season while charting plays for some undrafted free agent your employer just loves because they don't have to pay him anything and because he's got "tremendous upside."
Don't feel too bad, though. You'll always have that Heisman Trophy. Maybe one day, when your playing career is over, you can let us in on the secret of how you managed to win that thing despite a lack of any discernible talent. Boy -- you sure got us good.
Crown Royal
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I don't see a single sure thing QB in this draft. I'm glad I'm not trying to draft one in the first round - they are all risky. Both Russel & Quinn have their issues.
dogunwo
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I couldnt agree more. People knock Russell for playing against good teams. Quinn played against alot of horrible teams, and did not do well against good teams, which is supposedly the knock on Russell. I think Quinn is good, just not great.InmanRoshi;1415482 said:
baj1dallas
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To be honest I think they're both overrated. I don't think Quinn is a better prospect than Lienart and I think Russell is not going to have a Vince Young type impact at all (not that I am comparing Russell to Young as players, just as having similar draft positions).
ringmaster
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I think it was Tony Mandarich.wayne_motley;1414951 said:
ringmaster
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Yeah that's true Russell, is by far the better athlete.Mansta54;1415147 said:
No one really knows how good/bad neither QB, is going to be.
Bob Sacamano
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Crown Royal;1417212 said:
I haven't seen a sure thing at QB in the draft, in like...forever, only in '98 could I see a sure-fire QB, and that was Peyton
ringmaster
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I agree we all know the media loves QBs, all of the physical abilities that Russell, has but that doesn't mean he's going to be this great QB.Rack;1415473 said:
I hope JaMarcus, live up to the hype ala Aikman, as the number #1 overall pick if he's choosen there.
joseephuss
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Is Russell really athletic? College include sacks as rushing attempts in their stats. At LSU in three years, Russell had 139 rushing attempts for a total of 79 yards. Most athletic, college QBs can gain 79 yards in a single game, much less in 3 years.
I thought he moved around decently in the pocket to buy time, but he was not terribly athletic to gain yards running. He reminded me of Ben Roethlisberger or Byron Leftwich more than a Duante Culpepper. Three very big QBs with one more athletic than the other two.
Gaining rushing yards is not the most important thing for a QB to do in the NFL, so it should not be a big negative. I just don't consider Russell as a great athlete altough he is not a bad one either. The ability to buy time in the pocket is a good thing. Bledsoe, another big QB does not have that ability.
I thought he moved around decently in the pocket to buy time, but he was not terribly athletic to gain yards running. He reminded me of Ben Roethlisberger or Byron Leftwich more than a Duante Culpepper. Three very big QBs with one more athletic than the other two.
Gaining rushing yards is not the most important thing for a QB to do in the NFL, so it should not be a big negative. I just don't consider Russell as a great athlete altough he is not a bad one either. The ability to buy time in the pocket is a good thing. Bledsoe, another big QB does not have that ability.