Why is Tiger Woods so classless?

[Hostile]

I just believe Tiger is trying to beat the course and not show up his opponent....but, I am not sure.

There is no "showing up an opponent" in golf. That's why this analogy is so poor.

It's not like they are defending against his shots, or him against theirs. And anyone who does not realize that guys who have a tournament wrapped up "lay up" their shots at the end just are clueless. That includes Tiger. I've seen several torunaments where he has birdied a hole 3 days in a row and played it safe the last day.

 

[mkelly71]

In tournaments where he has a double digit stroke lead, why is he still trying to make birdie on the final hole? He's obviously trying to show up the other playesrs.

I also noticed Michael Jordan intentionally tried to make his shots when the Bulls were clearly the better team and winning by large margins.

What are we teaching our children? That it's okay to be a whole lot better than the other kids? What about the other kids self esteem? Why can't they all get first place trophies?

its not classless its called killer instinct . if they dont want him so far ahead maybe they should step there games up. its not tigers fault they cant keep up he wants to do the best possible. some of the best just know how to play one way all out and dont pay attention to wear the other players are. take every shot like its your last shot and your behind

 

[Arch Stanton]

It's very obvious to anyone without an agenda.

Golf is not a timed sport and you are competing against the course.

I remember Jordan and the Bulls milking every second off the shot clock before taking the shot.

You really don't see the difference?

Really?

Actually there is a "timed" element to golf. You can go "on the clock" for slow play and subsequently be fined by the officials. It has been known in the past for some golfers to play slowly to upset a fellow player who would prefer a speedier round. I'd say that 99.99% of golfers show respect to their fellow golfers as well as the game of golf. I'm guessing Bill Belichek doesn't play golf.

 

[peplaw06]

I really can't believe this thread is still going.... but since it is, I wanted to clarify or repeat something if you will.

Someone in one of these threads was talking about how golfers indeed do take it easy with big leads at the end of rounds. I wanna say it was theo, but I couldn't find it, so I can't be sure on the attribution. If it was someone else, I apologize.

I didn't see IR's response either, so I'd like to see it, if there is one.

One of the most famous (or infamous) collapses in the long history of golf is Jan Van de Velde, who with a three shot lead in the 1999 British Open on the 18th tee, hit into the burm twice. He took a triple bogey and lost in the playoff, mainly because he didn't play it safe on the last hole when he had the Open won.

That's why on the last hole or 4 when you have a big lead, you have golfers hitting irons off the tee, hitting to the center of the green instead of at tough pins, and generally taking less chances on the course.

When Tiger won his first Masters in 1997, and shot the lowest 4 round total in history, he shot 70-66-65-69. So his last round, you can see he didn't shoot as well as he did in the middle 2.

That is the norm for golfers. Play it safe when they have a big lead at the end. That's not what the Pats did yesterday.

 

[Dallas]

THIS THREAD IS SUTPID !!



Almost 8 pages now. Comedy ? I think so.


nyuk...nyuk...:laugh1:

 

[Danny White]

I really can't believe this thread is still going.... but since it is, I wanted to clarify or repeat something if you will.

Someone in one of these threads was talking about how golfers indeed do take it easy with big leads at the end of rounds. I wanna say it was theo, but I couldn't find it, so I can't be sure on the attribution. If it was someone else, I apologize.

I didn't see IR's response either, so I'd like to see it, if there is one.

One of the most famous (or infamous) collapses in the long history of golf is Jan Van de Velde, who with a three shot lead in the 1999 British Open on the 18th tee, hit into the burm twice. He took a triple bogey and lost in the playoff, mainly because he didn't play it safe on the last hole when he had the Open won.

That's why on the last hole or 4 when you have a big lead, you have golfers hitting irons off the tee, hitting to the center of the green instead of at tough pins, and generally taking less chances on the course.

When Tiger won his first Masters in 1997, and shot the lowest 4 round total in history, he shot 70-66-65-69. So his last round, you can see he didn't shoot as well as he did in the middle 2.

That is the norm for golfers. Play it safe when they have a big lead at the end. That's not what the Pats did yesterday.

That was my post.

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1734525&postcount=81


Another thing... I'm the farthest thing from a golf pro, but I will undertake a friendly wager with my playing partners when I do tee it up.

Once play is underway, the last thing in the world I'd expect from my opponent is for them to "ease up" on me if they were trouncing me. If I'm playing horribly, and my "opponent" is playing the round of their life, you're happy for them. In golf, the way your opponent is playing has nothing to do with you, so them letting up means nothing.

 

[gbrittain]

And if Belichick made his players stop going all out every time they have a big lead ... which is pretty much halftime of every game they've played this year, barring the Cowboys matchup ... there wouldn't be any effects on the team?

Interesting.

The only difference is that someone drew an arbitrary line in the sand and said it's okay to try your best on every stroke in golf, but it's not okay in football. Some choose to follow outdated heuristics, and others question them. No biggie.

You are confusing "playing your best" with playing an aggresive game plan. No one is asking a player "to mail it in".


Example:

If a coach were to know for a fact that the best play he has right now is a fake punt as opposed to punting. All indications are that the fake punt would work because the opponent is not covering the fake at all. Your theory suggest that the coach is obligated to run his best play, because anything less would be to stop playing your best. The reality is you show some respect for your opponent and punt the ball.

If a player is in the game he should give it 100% and never stop.

You can however, play a more conservative game and that should not be confused with "not trying your best".

 

[Daudr]

In tournaments where he has a double digit stroke lead, why is he still trying to make birdie on the final hole? He's obviously trying to show up the other playesrs.

I also noticed Michael Jordan intentionally tried to make his shots when the Bulls were clearly the better team and winning by large margins.

What are we teaching our children? That it's okay to be a whole lot better than the other kids? What about the other kids self esteem? Why can't they all get first place trophies?

See? Now you are acting like Belicheat. Pretending to do nothing wrong, and then trying to spite people. Do you really believe that the way Tiger Woods plays is the equivalent to the way Belicheat plays? If so, then you are more clueless than even I give you credit for.

 

[Chuck 54]

I don't think the analogy works either, but then...I don't think that was the point.

The point is we don't care that players and coaches are still trying in blowouts in baseball, basketball, or hockey....we don't care about blowouts in golf, and we don't seem to have a problem with the best in tennis humiliating someone 6-1, 6-1, 6-0....no one says, "Gee, he's got the thing won; he could at least let the other guy hold his serve a couple of times, knowing he'll win the set on his own next serve."

Maybe it's because football is such a physical sport that we think the best teams should ease up a little and just coast with big leads. I'm not really sure where this idea comes from, but I'm guessing more coaches stop throwing the ball more to keep the clock running and avoid making goofy mistakes or risking injury to their skill players than they do so out of pity for their opponents.

Let's face it....it used to be thought humiliating, regardless of the score, when team was so superior that they quit passing and just ran the ball down your throat all during the second half, grinding down your defense and never letting your offense on the field...that was painful to watch, unless you were loving your team that was doing it. Now, we actually want the superior team to just kneel down on 4th down instead of kicking a FG, and we certainly don't want them running the ball, a play that used to be considered merciful.

You know what....I just have no sympathy for a team that can't even stop the run when they know it's coming, and I don't condone my team kneeling down to avoid another first down or score.

 

[Doomsday101]

I don't think the analogy works either, but then...I don't think that was the point.

The point is we don't care that players and coaches are still trying in blowouts in baseball, basketball, or hockey....we don't care about blowouts in golf, and we don't seem to have a problem with the best in tennis humiliating someone 6-1, 6-1, 6-0....no one says, "Gee, he's got the thing won; he could at least let the other guy hold his serve a couple of times, knowing he'll win the set on his own next serve."

Maybe it's because football is such a physical sport that we think the best teams should ease up a little and just coast with big leads. I'm not really sure where this idea comes from, but I'm guessing more coaches stop throwing the ball more to keep the clock running and avoid making goofy mistakes or risking injury to their skill players than they do so out of pity for their opponents.

Let's face it....it used to be thought humiliating, regardless of the score, when team was so superior that they quit passing and just ran the ball down your throat all during the second half, grinding down your defense and never letting your offense on the field...that was painful to watch, unless you were loving your team that was doing it. Now, we actually want the superior team to just kneel down on 4th down instead of kicking a FG, and we certainly don't want them running the ball, a play that used to be considered merciful.

You know what....I just have no sympathy for a team that can't even stop the run when they know it's coming, and I don't condone my team kneeling down to avoid another first down or score.

I agree and frankly the only chance you have to make it respectable is if the other team keeps playing. If they are still throwing passes I have a chance to get the sack and fumble or the int. As far as yesterdays game the Pats pulled many key staters with over 8 min left in the game so I really don't see why many are upset. Is it because the backups for NE put points on the board as well?

 

[peplaw06]

The point is we don't care that players and coaches are still trying in blowouts in baseball, basketball, or hockey....we don't care about blowouts in golf, and we don't seem to have a problem with the best in tennis humiliating someone 6-1, 6-1, 6-0....no one says, "Gee, he's got the thing won; he could at least let the other guy hold his serve a couple of times, knowing he'll win the set on his own next serve."

You can basically throw out baseball, golf, and tennis in this discussion. The reason being that there is no clock. In baseball you have 27 outs. In golf you have 72 holes. In tennis you have 3-5 sets.

No amount of lead is ever safe in those sports, until the last hole/inning/point has been played.

I played a lot of tennis, and was often told by coaches, "Just win the last point." As long as you do that, you will win. In baseball, you don't run out of time, if you have the last at bat, you have the advantage, because any amount of runs can be scored in 3 outs. In golf, a three shot lead is not safe in the last hole, as we have seen.

Basketball teams absolutely take it easier when there's a big lead in the 4th. They run the shot clock down to single digits before taking shots, they make a conscious effort not to foul when a guy drives the lane, they sit their starters, and let the crowd give them ovations as they leave the court.

Hockey teams the same thing. When they're up big, they will just dump the puck in the offensive zone and leave it. They'll pull starting goalies.

If there's a clock, and you have a definite time frame for when the game will be over, you can "call off the dogs," and not have it hurt you.

 

[InmanRoshi]

I'm not really sure where this idea comes from, but I'm guessing more coaches stop throwing the ball more to keep the clock running and avoid making goofy mistakes or risking injury to their skill players than they do so out of pity for their opponents.

Which is really kind of silly, since injuries are far more likely to happen on running plays when bodies and legs and limbs get caught in pile ups. If you go to a training camp practice the fundamental rule is that they don't want bodies on the ground.

And there are ways you can "show up" an opponent in other sports that don't include running up the score. What about Jordan shooting free throws with his eyes shut? What about Sugar Ray throwing bolo punches? What about Ali shuffling his feet? They served no purpose for the pure sake of competition. They did it to make a statement, intimidate the opponent and prove a point. I guess they're classless too.

 

[Q_the_man]

LOLOL I know a sign of brightness is omitting punctuation so Ill try to be bright and explain it to you that when you have a 12 stroke lead heading into the final hole then trying to score birdie on a hole that is completely irrelevant at that point must be trying to show up your opponent because it really serves no other purpose other than some people think a competitor should give it their all at all times

what should he do, don't play the final hole and ff the tourney..... he has to play all the holes, it's not like he can kneel down and take a knee..... than u say MJ, I bet if the Bulls were winning by 40 in the 4th MJ wouldn't sniff the court so there goes that theory, come on IR be better than that......

 

[scottsp]

IR: Without commenting on anything but the premise, I would be offended far more by what the Commanders threw out there yesterday than anything the Patriots of Bill Belichick.

If we are so sensitive as to getting our feathers ruffled by 40-point margin as opposed to a mere four-touchdown spread, the Randall Godfreys among us might want to unbunch and do something about it.

Otherwise, I would expect another ripping.

 

[Q_the_man]

I didn't say purposely shanking a drive ... I said going for birdie on the final hole when you already have a 12 stroke lead. Your analogy is stupid.

What should he do miss on purpose and take a par???? just asking......

 

[L-O-Jete]

LOLOL I know a sign of brightness is omitting punctuation so Ill try to be bright and explain it to you that when you have a 12 stroke lead heading into the final hole then trying to score birdie on a hole that is completely irrelevant at that point must be trying to show up your opponent because it really serves no other purpose other than some people think a competitor should give it their all at all times

Actually he does ease off when he has a large lead you'll notice his play goes way more conservative (not taking out the driver, not pushing to get to the green, aiming for the center of the green, etc.), but the others know he'll probably at least make par (he is so good he'll still fall into a couple of birdies, probably no eagles though) that THEY start pushing and pressing (which is not good in golf) and fall off.

I really don't understand why it rattles you so much that some consider BB classless...

 

[Bizwah]

Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread.

But the comparison is ridiculous. There really are few similarities between football and golf.

In golf, it's not really you vs an opponent.

It's you vs the course.

I play all the time with a scratch golfer. He's won a number of local tournaments. When we play, it's normal for him to score 20+ strokes better than me.

Is he running it up?

No.

He's simply trying to do his best vs his opponent.....THE COURSE.

Same with me.....I'm trying to score my best against the COURSE.

He helps me with my game, he gives me high fives when I do well. Same with me.

In football, your opponents are other men. And, if you want to run up the score.....you can. I don't know what the Patriots should do. You don't want to tell your players not to play hard. That causes injury. But there's also a time where you should show your opponent you respect them.

I remember when I used to coach jr high basketball. My team had a pretty deadly press. I remember getting caught up in the action one game, seeing my team get steal after steal...layup after layup.

I wasn't intending to run up the score, I was just pleased to see how hard my guys were playing. I heard the other coach yell at me, "you think your up by enough?"

I honestly felt terrible......I looked up at the scoreboard and saw that we had a HUGE lead. I called off the dogs and began to substitute. Of course, I had my subs play hard still. After the game, I apologized to the coach. Sometimes in games, you get so caught up, you don't really realize what's going on.

 

[dallasfaniac]

These guys are grown men, I have no problem with running up the score, especially when we do against them in the Superbowl.

I was hoping they'd score a more and prevent Washington from scoring at all honestly.

That said, when you do run the score up, you're creating a monster you'll have to deal with. When a guy like Haynesworth can rip off a helmet and rake his cleats against someone's face, grab nuts and twist in a dogpile, etc. it wouldn't be a stretch to see them purposely going at Brady's knees when they try to run up the score. Heck, another AFC team in contention could send in a scrub to get some 'playing time' in a blowout loss just to take Brady out for their post season rematch.

 

[utrunner07]

In tournaments where he has a double digit stroke lead, why is he still trying to make birdie on the final hole? He's obviously trying to show up the other playesrs.

I also noticed Michael Jordan intentionally tried to make his shots when the Bulls were clearly the better team and winning by large margins.

What are we teaching our children? That it's okay to be a whole lot better than the other kids? What about the other kids self esteem? Why can't they all get first place trophies?

I can't believe you tried to defend this post, should have just realized it was bad and moved on, if you honestly think you can compare one to the other then you've never watched one of those sports...ive seen some bad posts this season, probably made a few myself, but this is by FAR one of the worst posts of the season...

but, I can't believe so many of ya'll are defending the patriots...seems like its pretty black and white to me, the patriots are egomaniacs, cheaters, they video tape, mess with equipment of other teams, take steroids, play dirty, and run up the score, its all proven...seems like its pretty obvious to me who is in the wrong...guess im just out of the loop, guess all this stuff is fine to do...sure...ya'll keep defending them.

 

[jimmy40]

Tiger isnt playing against other players he is playing against the course. But I do think you should get a prize for stupid post of the day.

Jack Nicklaus was asked what would happen if he was in his prime and played against Tiger and he said "I would beat his brains out and I'm sure Tiger would say the same about me". I didn't hear him say anything about the course.