Why not grab Baker Mayfield? Dak may not be the answer

Hoofbite

Well-Known Member
Messages
40,576
Reaction score
11,172
Like Baker would be any better?

He has literally had 1 good season, and that season was only slightly better than Dak's worst season. Baker Mayfield is a capable QB but not a star. Dak may have his quirks but if Dak and Baker were both on the market, Dak would be snatched up first. The fact that a pervert like Deshaun Watson can command so much and Baker can command so little should tell you what the league thinks of the guy. He's capable, but he is not good enough.
 

TwoDeep3

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,392
Reaction score
17,215
You are entitled to your opinion of Dak. You think he will be in the same class someday like these HOF QBs . I don’t .

Please cite in any of our discussion where I said i think Dak will be anything - good or bad - in the future. You will not find me taking that position. I am saying you cannot judge how good he will be in the future by comparing him to other QB's who started their careers with similar stats, who went on to be heralded players. You do not KNOW for a fact if Dak will rise to their level at some point or not. So as it stands, when you make finite comments about Dak's future, that is opinion based, conjecture ain't facts. Yet you frame it as if this is burning bush information.

Baker is not likely to be a HOF QB either , but I think he is a better passer than Dak . Playing at Cleveland and that toxic organization produces crazy things .

Cleveland is a vacation on a beach, with comped hotel rooms, and beautiful women, and free booze compared to the train wreck Jerry has created in Dallas. One of Jerry's major problems is his GM status. Outside of him not really being a football guy, his job title means he interacts with players. Yet his position as owner subverts the coaches position of authority. That is why Dallas is considered a country club environment where the players circumvent the head coach and go directly to the owner. The owner that thinks they are coming to the GM. But this is the same game children of divorce play with their parents by going to the one who will override the decision of the other so the kid can get his way.

I doubt you could float that Cleveland is toxic compared to Dallas to many who will agree.

Playing injured last year affected baker also .

Funny how you give Mayfield the benefit of the doubt and grade on the curve when it comes to playing injured. Yet you are adamant about Dak's last season, discounting the ankle that takes over a season to heal which caused his calf injury.

Anyway , Jerry won’t make such trades just like he failed to make moves to acquire better talent before . He likes to stick to his picks until the end . That usually means 10 years . If you believe Dak is a HOF QB like these QBs mentioned, you will get a chance to find out the truth soon . I don’t think he is .

1. Being a SB winner does not mean HOF status in all cases. I have not compared him to them other than to agree they started with similar stats to Dak in their first six years. His future is clouded in the mystery of time. His success or failure in the future will be an enigma until the moment it becomes history. Your clinging onto this position. Yet I am stating his future is something we both have no knowledge of, at this time.

2. Your 10 year comment is hyperbole and a strawman position to attempt to galvanize your comments. Jerry has cut bait as much as he has stuck with players. As it stands Dak is on a contract. Jerry will live up to his word on that front. Part of the reason is he is bound by that agreement both legally and financially. But he also does have an inkling of character when it comes to things like this. Not a great deal, but he has shown in the past he will ride the horse he chose. Up until....

And he has demonstrated - Dez, Cooper - that he will sever his ties, even with players he likes.

I find your position on this tenuous because it is fraught with assumptions and inaccuracies based on opinion.

Have your opinion as you choose. But the entire premise of this thread is centered on going after Mayfield and to jettison Dak.

You can't cut Dak, nor trade him because the cap hit will wreck this team for years.

And, it would take one season of Mayfield, if that, before you'd be right back here creating a 30 page thread on how Mayfield stinks on ice, and Dallas should move him along for someone like RGIII, who is a diamond in the trash. Now that was revealing the absurd by being absurd. But I think our first headbutting on this was when I suggested the idea of Mayfield was an opium pipe dream of fantasy.

Regardless of your comportment in our latest exchanges, it still is a silly premise because the grass may look greener, but Mayfield ain't better.

And why the Hell would he ever take 15 a year as a starter for the most visible franchise in the league? I believe you offered that as one of the reasons Mayfield would be better. Which causes me to believe your angst is based on his salary, like so many others to deride him.
 

kskboys

Well-Known Member
Messages
44,894
Reaction score
47,713
Please cite in any of our discussion where I said i think Dak will be anything - good or bad - in the future. You will not find me taking that position. I am saying you cannot judge how good he will be in the future by comparing him to other QB's who started their careers with similar stats, who went on to be heralded players. You do not KNOW for a fact if Dak will rise to their level at some point or not. So as it stands, when you make finite comments about Dak's future, that is opinion based, conjecture ain't facts. Yet you frame it as if this is burning bush information.



Cleveland is a vacation on a beach, with comped hotel rooms, and beautiful women, and free booze compared to the train wreck Jerry has created in Dallas. One of Jerry's major problems is his GM status. Outside of him not really being a football guy, his job title means he interacts with players. Yet his position as owner subverts the coaches position of authority. That is why Dallas is considered a country club environment where the players circumvent the head coach and go directly to the owner. The owner that thinks they are coming to the GM. But this is the same game children of divorce play with their parents by going to the one who will override the decision of the other so the kid can get his way.

I doubt you could float that Cleveland is toxic compared to Dallas to many who will agree.



Funny how you give Mayfield the benefit of the doubt and grade on the curve when it comes to playing injured. Yet you are adamant about Dak's last season, discounting the ankle that takes over a season to heal which caused his calf injury.



1. Being a SB winner does not mean HOF status in all cases. I have not compared him to them other than to agree they started with similar stats to Dak in their first six years. His future is clouded in the mystery of time. His success or failure in the future will be an enigma until the moment it becomes history. Your clinging onto this position. Yet I am stating his future is something we both have no knowledge of, at this time.

2. Your 10 year comment is hyperbole and a strawman position to attempt to galvanize your comments. Jerry has cut bait as much as he has stuck with players. As it stands Dak is on a contract. Jerry will live up to his word on that front. Part of the reason is he is bound by that agreement both legally and financially. But he also does have an inkling of character when it comes to things like this. Not a great deal, but he has shown in the past he will ride the horse he chose. Up until....

And he has demonstrated - Dez, Cooper - that he will sever his ties, even with players he likes.

I find your position on this tenuous because it is fraught with assumptions and inaccuracies based on opinion.

Have your opinion as you choose. But the entire premise of this thread is centered on going after Mayfield and to jettison Dak.

You can't cut Dak, nor trade him because the cap hit will wreck this team for years.

And, it would take one season of Mayfield, if that, before you'd be right back here creating a 30 page thread on how Mayfield stinks on ice, and Dallas should move him along for someone like RGIII, who is a diamond in the trash. Now that was revealing the absurd by being absurd. But I think our first headbutting on this was when I suggested the idea of Mayfield was an opium pipe dream of fantasy.

Regardless of your comportment in our latest exchanges, it still is a silly premise because the grass may look greener, but Mayfield ain't better.

And why the Hell would he ever take 15 a year as a starter for the most visible franchise in the league? I believe you offered that as one of the reasons Mayfield would be better. Which causes me to believe your angst is based on his salary, like so many others to deride him.
It's shocking how our fans don't realize how bad Mayfield is. He's a poor man's Case Keenum.
 

basel90

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,933
Reaction score
4,306
Baker Mayfield............................ Is that You!!!!!
C'Mon Man Baker Mayfield ???? Basel90 Really
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Swingandamiss
a much better passer than dak . why can't you accept it ? dak would stand no chance in the AFC north . Dak has so many tools and failed to capitalize . If dak is so great as you say and much better why does baker have a more recent and more impressive playoff win on the road by the way . Stop drinking the cool aid on dak. He is not the answer.
 

basel90

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,933
Reaction score
4,306
show some stats to back up your made up assumption.....toxic organization!!! really you want to go there with Jerry, Stephen and the cowboys organization where the coach can't tell OC what plays to call!!! really...you going there!!! and funny you bash everybody that talks about Dak's injury, but here you give Baker a nice excuse...he was injured.....

and no, Dak is not a HOF QB...but he sure dang is heck of a lot better than that loser Mayfield (who nobody wants...I mean nobody has been knocking at cleveland door to ask, yeah....he is so good).
You won't change your mind and i respect your opinion. maybe next season you will see more of the same from dak and start realizing the limitations,
 

basel90

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,933
Reaction score
4,306
Please cite in any of our discussion where I said i think Dak will be anything - good or bad - in the future. You will not find me taking that position. I am saying you cannot judge how good he will be in the future by comparing him to other QB's who started their careers with similar stats, who went on to be heralded players. You do not KNOW for a fact if Dak will rise to their level at some point or not. So as it stands, when you make finite comments about Dak's future, that is opinion based, conjecture ain't facts. Yet you frame it as if this is burning bush information.



Cleveland is a vacation on a beach, with comped hotel rooms, and beautiful women, and free booze compared to the train wreck Jerry has created in Dallas. One of Jerry's major problems is his GM status. Outside of him not really being a football guy, his job title means he interacts with players. Yet his position as owner subverts the coaches position of authority. That is why Dallas is considered a country club environment where the players circumvent the head coach and go directly to the owner. The owner that thinks they are coming to the GM. But this is the same game children of divorce play with their parents by going to the one who will override the decision of the other so the kid can get his way.

I doubt you could float that Cleveland is toxic compared to Dallas to many who will agree.



Funny how you give Mayfield the benefit of the doubt and grade on the curve when it comes to playing injured. Yet you are adamant about Dak's last season, discounting the ankle that takes over a season to heal which caused his calf injury.



1. Being a SB winner does not mean HOF status in all cases. I have not compared him to them other than to agree they started with similar stats to Dak in their first six years. His future is clouded in the mystery of time. His success or failure in the future will be an enigma until the moment it becomes history. Your clinging onto this position. Yet I am stating his future is something we both have no knowledge of, at this time.

2. Your 10 year comment is hyperbole and a strawman position to attempt to galvanize your comments. Jerry has cut bait as much as he has stuck with players. As it stands Dak is on a contract. Jerry will live up to his word on that front. Part of the reason is he is bound by that agreement both legally and financially. But he also does have an inkling of character when it comes to things like this. Not a great deal, but he has shown in the past he will ride the horse he chose. Up until....

And he has demonstrated - Dez, Cooper - that he will sever his ties, even with players he likes.

I find your position on this tenuous because it is fraught with assumptions and inaccuracies based on opinion.

Have your opinion as you choose. But the entire premise of this thread is centered on going after Mayfield and to jettison Dak.

You can't cut Dak, nor trade him because the cap hit will wreck this team for years.

And, it would take one season of Mayfield, if that, before you'd be right back here creating a 30 page thread on how Mayfield stinks on ice, and Dallas should move him along for someone like RGIII, who is a diamond in the trash. Now that was revealing the absurd by being absurd. But I think our first headbutting on this was when I suggested the idea of Mayfield was an opium pipe dream of fantasy.

Regardless of your comportment in our latest exchanges, it still is a silly premise because the grass may look greener, but Mayfield ain't better.

And why the Hell would he ever take 15 a year as a starter for the most visible franchise in the league? I believe you offered that as one of the reasons Mayfield would be better. Which causes me to believe your angst is based on his salary, like so many others to deride him.

no one knows what a player will do in the future for sure. but i have seen enough of dak to know he has serious issues in making the needed passes to beat good defenses. In today's NFL that is fatal . I know fully well Dak is not going anywhere , nor will he be given any competition by jerry . I still stand by opinioin mayfield is a better passer than dak. I never blamed dak for being injured. When both were healthy baker won a playoff game and had a much better rating that year. With dak , there excuses don't end.
Heck , jerry could have gone after stafford for 22 mil or even brady at 26 mil a year when he was leaving NE. Jerry doesn't have that kind of vision or mentality.
Your argument about the cowboys being much worse than the cowboys can be disputed by many experts. the browns make crazy decisions and have been one of the worst franchises in the last 40 years.

yesterday they showed a 2018 replay game of the cowboys against the hapless eagles at AT&T stadium. watched some of the first half , The number of missed passes and mistakes dak had was not even funny . Playing behing one of the best OL RB combos. at some stage dak's on field issues have to be scrutinized. The media in dallas has given him a pass so far . and many of the fans as well.
 
Last edited:

PAPPYDOG

There are no Dak haters just Cowboy lovers!!!
Messages
19,032
Reaction score
32,801
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
a much better passer than dak . why can't you accept it ? dak would stand no chance in the AFC north . Dak has so many tools and failed to capitalize . If dak is so great as you say and much better why does baker have a more recent and more impressive playoff win on the road by the way . Stop drinking the cool aid on dak. He is not the answer.
Patience as Sept is just around the Summer corner......
They will have NEW and IMPROVED Dak excuses Galore!!!!
I've ordered extra Bourbon as I have a feeling it will be needed!!!!
 

basel90

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,933
Reaction score
4,306
Patience as Sept is just around the Summer corner......
They will have NEW and IMPROVED Dak excuses Galore!!!!
I've ordered extra Bourbon as I have a feeling it will be needed!!!!
certainly true., Another round of excuses are expected for the star QB .
 

Frozen700

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,440
Reaction score
6,354
So do yall think Dak would still get the contract he has in today's nfl?
 

basel90

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,933
Reaction score
4,306
So do yall think Dak would still get the contract he has in today's nfl?
sadly yes , with jerry's way of thinking and stubbornly keeping his stars with the team . A recent example is the zeke contract renewal, which was so shocking to many NFL executives and has proven to be a collosal mistake.
 

Calvin2Tony2Emmitt2Julius

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,651
Reaction score
1,922
a much better passer than dak . why can't you accept it ? dak would stand no chance in the AFC north . Dak has so many tools and failed to capitalize . If dak is so great as you say and much better why does baker have a more recent and more impressive playoff win on the road by the way . Stop drinking the cool aid on dak. He is not the answer.

Bro!! No matter how many times you tell yourself, Ain't gonna make it so. I could accept it, if it had any resemblance to fact. I can accept Aaron Rogers is a better passer, I can accept Tom Brady is a Better Passer. I can accept Patrick Mahomes is a better passer

He IS the answer until he's gone. Stop trying to convince me other wise. It is a losing proposition
 

Swagger

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,002
Reaction score
7,737
I think Dak is in the 14-17 territory unfortunately. He has not justified his 42 mil a year contract . 1 playoff win in 6 years and that was at home .
Beating Washington is not something that can be used as proof of any quality win . That team has been terrible for so long .
Top 11 QBs in no particular order:
Rodgers
Mahomes
Brady
Allen
Herbert
Wilson
Burrow
Stafford
Jackson
Murray
Carr

Prescott and Cousins are very similar QBs in terms of massaging personal stats yet neither have actually looking like being the guy. Add in Jimmy G, Tannehill and Matt Ryan then you have your mid tier. Prescott is in that top 12-16 range - I would go along with him being a Top 15 QB in the league.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

CowboysFaninDC
Messages
31,784
Reaction score
18,044
You won't change your mind and i respect your opinion. maybe next season you will see more of the same from dak and start realizing the limitations,
Yeah. I thought so.

This wasn't about Dak being good or not. So don't even try to deflect like most Dak haters.... This was about mayfield being better than dak....so if Dak is bad then mayfield is really bad... But if you are unable To provide any shred of even supposed evidence to back up what you say, then you got exactly nothing.

Mayfield sucks more than Dak. End of story

P.s.
Are u a browns.fan?
 

CowboysFaninHouston

CowboysFaninDC
Messages
31,784
Reaction score
18,044
Top 11 QBs in no particular order:
Rodgers
Mahomes
Brady
Allen
Herbert
Wilson
Burrow
Stafford
Jackson
Murray
Carr

Prescott and Cousins are very similar QBs in terms of massaging personal stats yet neither have actually looking like being the guy. Add in Jimmy G, Tannehill and Matt Ryan then you have your mid tier. Prescott is in that top 12-16 range - I would go along with him being a Top 15 QB in the league.
Murray? He hasn't done squat to beling there...

I am not a Jackson fan.

Carr is so hot and cold...
 

OmerV

Well-Known Member
Messages
25,931
Reaction score
22,453
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
No way , if a QB is injured and feels pain ,and says he cannot play , pretty much the team will have to treat him . Unless they don't want him and can cut him. Have never seen a team force a player to play injured. I think he took a risk for the team and wanted to play anyway. it did not work out as he was hampered.
You really need to read a little closer.

I said he can't make the decision TO PLAY after an injury all on his own.

You're talking about a decision NOT to play.

Surely you understand the difference. And that's what we were talking about. You said he made the choice TO PLAY when maybe he shouldn't have, and I pointed out the coaches, trainers and doctors had to agree - that he still wouldn't have played if he hadn't got medical clearance.
 

OmerV

Well-Known Member
Messages
25,931
Reaction score
22,453
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
a much better passer than dak . why can't you accept it ? dak would stand no chance in the AFC north . Dak has so many tools and failed to capitalize . If dak is so great as you say and much better why does baker have a more recent and more impressive playoff win on the road by the way . Stop drinking the cool aid on dak. He is not the answer.

You don't think Nick Chubb, Kareem Hunt, Jarvis Landry, Odell Beckham an a TE combo of Hooper and Njoku aren't weapons ...?

Or is that just another double standard where you make a complaint against Dak while ignoring that the same situation applies to Mayfield?

A little added commentary on this topic. The play of Hooper, Beckham and Landry all faded after going to Cleveland and playing with Mayfield. Meanwhile, Cooper was at his peak in Dallas, and Schultz and Lamb are growing each year.

certainly true., Another round of excuses are expected for the star QB .
Hey, you make constant excuses for Mayfield - the same ones you accuse Cowboy fans of making for Dak. That indicates an irrational agenda, not a fair and reasonable discussion.

Again, if the Cowboys found a QB that clearly is, or provides a high likelihood of being an upgrade, so be it. But don't make excuses for going with a guy that there really is no reasonable way to argue would be an upgrade at all, much less a clear upgrade.
 
Last edited:

kskboys

Well-Known Member
Messages
44,894
Reaction score
47,713
Yeah. I thought so.

This wasn't about Dak being good or not. So don't even try to deflect like most Dak haters.... This was about mayfield being better than dak....so if Dak is bad then mayfield is really bad... But if you are unable To provide any shred of even supposed evidence to back up what you say, then you got exactly nothing.

Mayfield sucks more than Dak. End of story

P.s.
Are u a browns.fan?
I'm still in shock that anyone thinks Mayfield is better than Dak. They are seriously not even in the same conversation.

This reminds me of when a few were screaming we should get Jameis Winston to replace Dak. Case Keenum was also touted, as well as a few other backup types. Just makes no sense.
 

basel90

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,933
Reaction score
4,306
You really need to read a little closer.

I said he can't make the decision TO PLAY after an injury all on his own.

You're talking about a decision NOT to play.

Surely you understand the difference. And that's what we were talking about. You said he made the choice TO PLAY when maybe he shouldn't have, and I pointed out the coaches, trainers and doctors had to agree - that he still wouldn't have played if he hadn't got medical clearance.
You are making this out as if it is black and white, it is not. it is not a court decision and there are many things involved. If baker said he wants to heal and recover the browns cannot force him to play, Many players get hurt , the degree varies ,and the decision to play or not is a game day decision . Plus, in the situation with an organization like the browns i think they had some plans to see what their options were,
 

basel90

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,933
Reaction score
4,306
You don't think Nick Chubb, Kareem Hunt, Jarvis Landry, Odell Beckham an a TE combo of Hooper and Njoku aren't weapons ...?

Or is that just another double standard where you make a complaint against Dak while ignoring that the same situation applies to Mayfield?

A little added commentary on this topic. The play of Hooper, Beckham and Landry all faded after going to Cleveland and playing with Mayfield. Meanwhile, Cooper was at his peak in Dallas, and Schultz and Lamb are growing each year.


Hey, you make constant excuses for Mayfield - the same ones you accuse Cowboy fans of making for Dak. That indicates an irrational agenda, not a fair and reasonable discussion.

Again, if the Cowboys found a QB that clearly is, or provides a high likelihood of being an upgrade, so be it. But don't make excuses for going with a guy that there really is no reasonable way to argue would be an upgrade at all, much less a clear upgrade.
The one making the excuses are you . Heck, Dak is an excuse train. The players you mention were not always with the browns and some of them are stars indeed. At the end of the day the AFC North is a much tougher divisoin unless you want to argue dak is playing in a tougher decision as another excuse for dak not winning enough games while getting paid like an elite QB. I stand by my claim Mayfield is a better passer , and the cowboys should have considered other QBs when the contract dispute happened with dak in 2019 -2020 . Stafford is a much better QB and was availalbe. Brady too but brady probably would not come here,.
The only number that matters for cowboys fans is SB and playoff wins , and dak has 1 playoff win at home in 2018 is a far distant memory and too weak of an argument for you to stand on . Seems you are buying into the jerry hype . It is simply inexcusable for the most expensive franchise in the world to have such mediocre QB. If stats is the only thing you care about , then Brandon Weedon had a 70% completion rate with the cowboys when he was cut !!!
You wait and see next season will be the same with dak , making the playoff will be a stretch as many defenses have figured him out. Watch the tape from last season,
 

OmerV

Well-Known Member
Messages
25,931
Reaction score
22,453
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
You are making this out as if it is black and white, it is not. it is not a court decision and there are many things involved. If baker said he wants to heal and recover the browns cannot force him to play, Many players get hurt , the degree varies ,and the decision to play or not is a game day decision . Plus, in the situation with an organization like the browns i think they had some plans to see what their options were,
You are still arguing a point that is irrelevant to what I said.

I never said the team can force a player to play if that player says he is too hurt to play, therefore you are not making a point that applies to what I said.

Again, what I said was when a player says he can play, the decision for him to play isn't solely his. Others have to agree, particularly the medical staff.

I suspect you are just blowing smoke anyway to cover the reality that you are using a different standard with Mayfield than for Dak.
 
Top