Why the massive dislike for Bosa?

[starfrombirth]

True Watt was 15-20 heavier but Bosa is younger than Watt was. They are basically the same player coming out. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying Bosa is a lock to be a Watt 15-20 sack a year player that would be unlikely however no one though Watt was a 15-20 sack a year guy either coming or he would have gone in the top 5 not 11.

Yes but watt having those same numbers at a heavier weight indicates more functional strength and overall explosiveness. Bosa doesn't have the room to put on the weight to give him the functional strength. If he does then his speed will go down.. If you look at Bosa's physique, he is already as physically developed as he is likely to be. I'm not saying he is going to suck but I don't believe he has the potential to "justify" the #4 overall pick... that's my take is all.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I read reports generated by the media and thats the take on the DE position.
The DTis strong but the rushers mainly pass gas.

Well, I just listed the prospects in question and compared it to the past several years. It would seem that relative to past amounts of prospects both groups have decent numbers this year.

NFLDraftscout has 8 DE in their top 50.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Yes but watt having those same numbers at a heavier weight indicates more functional strength and overall explosiveness. Bosa doesn't have the room to put on the weight to give him the functional strength. If he does then his speed will go down.. If you look at Bosa's physique, he is already as physically developed as he is likely to be. I'm not saying he is going to suck but I don't believe he has the potential to "justify" the #4 overall pick... that's my take is all.

You don't know that. He could well continue to grow in his early 20s and not lose a thing like many other athletes.

As for functional strength, I thought the meme on him was that he overtrained. When I look at Bosa's physique he looks lean in the bubble and legs for all his upper body mass. He does not have narrow hips.

He can already punch incredibly hard and his functional strength has room to grow.

 

[btcutter]

I read reports generated by the media and thats the take on the DE position.
The DTis strong but the rushers mainly pass gas.

Rationale doesn't hold water. There's not a single DT rated ahead of Bosa. It's not deep though.

DT is super deep and talented I agree. But it's lacking the top end talent like a Russell from last year.

 

[btcutter]

Goff.

I can live with that

 

[Romotil45]

Yes but watt having those same numbers at a heavier weight indicates more functional strength and overall explosiveness. Bosa doesn't have the room to put on the weight to give him the functional strength. If he does then his speed will go down.. If you look at Bosa's physique, he is already as physically developed as he is likely to be. I'm not saying he is going to suck but I don't believe he has the potential to "justify" the #4 overall pick... that's my take is all.

Yes it could indicate that but could also indicate that Watt was fully mature and had a few more years in the weight room. I wouldn't take Bosa at 4 either unless we can't trade back. I see no reason why he couldn't put on 15-20 lbs and still increase in explosiveness. Especially if he is still growing.

 

[Romotil45]

You don't know that. He could well continue to grow in his early 20s and not lose a thing like many other athletes.

As for functional strength, I thought the meme on him was that he overtrained. When I look at Bosa's physique he looks lean in the bubble and legs for all his upper body mass. He does not have narrow hips.

He can already punch incredibly hard and his functional strength has room to grow.

I agree his posterior chain is not maxed out upper body perhaps. Explosiveness comes from the posterior chain. See no reason why he can put on 20 lbs and still increase his explosiveness.

 

[Romotil45]

Would like to know his posterior chain workout routine. Has he really focused on this area and is just not genetically going to get there or has he not done the wide heavy box squats and heavy dead lifts needed ? Some guys just don't have the genetics most however just don't like the heavy dead lifts they are very taxing on the system. A few years back heavy dead lifts were frowned upon still some trainers shy away but Watt does heavy deadlifts and wide box squats in the off season.

 

[Kaiser]

The Hurries are so low that I would hope there's just some discrepancy about how to quantify Hurries. How does a DE only have 4 hurries in an entire season where he also gets 13.5 sacks? (albeit none vs ranked opponents) How is a top player not living in the backfield vs Western Michigan? Concerning.

Great post, thanks for the info. That backs up what my sense of Bosa's stats would be. I don't think he will be a bust but I think drafting a guy like Dodd in the 2nd round is infinitely better value than taking Bosa at 4.

Also Troy was a backwater when DeMarcus Ware was drafted, my (hazy) memory is that Ware had no coaching and no talent around him in college.

 

[fishspill]

Great post, thanks for the info. That backs up what my sense of Bosa's stats would be. I don't think he will be a bust but I think drafting a guy like Dodd in the 2nd round is infinitely better value than taking Bosa at 4.

Also Troy was a backwater when DeMarcus Ware was drafted, my (hazy) memory is that Ware had no coaching and no talent around him in college.

I dunno where the Hurries stat comes from either. There were 6 times he was in the QB's lap when he was releasing the ball that I could count on draftbreakdown in the Western Michigan game alone. I'd be hard-pressed to call them all Hurries, but I'd feel pretty good about saying 3 were. It also played like the usual offensive strategy against him which was try to avoid his side while he plays his assignment and watches them run away.

I'll say this, you'd like to see more hussle from him. He seems to lose focus and gets caught by surprise on counters and traps (only for a play or two, then he usually adjusts well). Also his spin move, if you can call it that, looks like a dump truck executing a 3-point turn. However, he has plenty of disruptive plays (and a number of annoying missed tackles) despite being run from. He could use a coach like Rod to motivate him and more technique work to round out his pass rush.

I also like the fact he'd likely bump DLaw to the right where I think he'll be better, though I really was beginning to like how he was performing late last year on the left.

 

[starfrombirth]

You don't know that. He could well continue to grow in his early 20s and not lose a thing like many other athletes.

As for functional strength, I thought the meme on him was that he overtrained. When I look at Bosa's physique he looks lean in the bubble and legs for all his upper body mass. He does not have narrow hips.

He can already punch incredibly hard and his functional strength has room to grow.

This is my take on him, for what it's worth:
In comparison to his possible draft competition as it relates to pass rush, Bosa is the most technique sound of the bunch. He works angles well to be disruptive and beat the blockers to the point of attack. He works well down the line is almost always in or near the pile. For all his vaunted strength though, it is not in his hands, many times allowing the ball carrier to slip from his grasp. Both his sack numbers and TFL's would have been much better with a stronger grip. There are some "if's" that could change his prospective career immensely. He is already technically proficient but IF he can get stronger and put on a little weight he could be devastating. That's a big IF tho as Ohio state has one of the better weight programs in the country so I don't see this happening. IF he can be part of a line that puts pressure on the qb besides him he won't be double teamed quite so often and will have a chance to put up better numbers. I see an "Almost" Anthony Spencer comparison, which is good but not #4 worthy. Just my take from an amateur armchair scout.

 

[Oh_Canada]

The best way I can sum up Bosa is this.

If you did not really "need" a DE as desperately as we do, would you think he is worth taking just to take him because he is going to be that good as a professional?

So assume Gregory was fine and Lawrence completely healthy, would you figure he is just too good to pass up?

Yes I would. If the Cowboys had a number one back would people want to waste a pick on another back? How about a young qb in the system? You could say that about a number of players. Bosa is the best dlineman in the draft hands down, and with or without Gregory I still take him.

 

[Verdict]

Man the way you guys have dogged Mo. if we draft Bosa I can't wait to see this forum explode of he only has 6 sacks in his first two years. The implosion here will be EPIC! He sure sounds a lot like "Almost Anthony" Spencer to me, but slower.