Why the massive dislike for Bosa?

[Romotil45]

I like Buckner, but for a massive man he plays small. There are some embarrassing moments in his tape--particularly vs. Michigan St--where he gets double teamed and demolished. He doesn't seem very strong or overly athletic. From what I saw, he made a ton of plays exclusively with one (albeit impressive) swim move. I'm worried he is a bit of a one trick pony.

He makes a ton of tackles however, and is involved in a lot of plays. One thing I like about him vs. Bosa is I feel his effort level and desire is higher.

Does he fit in our defense? I don't know

I'm certainly not down on Bosa. I think his floor is a 5-8 sack a year guy and he could be a Watt like player very similar combine results build and frame. I'm going to say out loud what other are only thinking. Look at the best edge rushers historically in the modern game before Watt. Mostly black guys right. Also Watt is a one in a generation type player and Bosa is very very similar how likely is it that Bosa could be as good ? Unlikely but certainly possible. Due to this he is likely to fall if we don't take him at 4. We could trade back to 7 he might still be there. Don't think he would fall to 15 though.

 

[btcutter]

That hardly makes sense. Cushing came into the league and went to the pro bowl. He started getting hurt just like he did in college. That's not a plateau as much as a cliff.

And I also question the notion that eastern method or similar training regimens are all that rare in high schools nowadays such that Cushing and Bosa could be some rarity. Particularly with some state's and their football factories. All the major texas cities have them for example. Heaven forbid prospects be well prepared.

Cushing was also a 22 year old senior LB with an extensive injury history that weighed 25 lbs less when he was drafted. About the only comparison is that they are white guys that play defense.

Yeap, I totally agree. Why not use Mathews as a comparison in terms of flourishing instead of picking Cushings as a failure? They both came out of USC in the same draft year. This is called selective memory and comparison.

 

[Alexander]

Yeap, I totally agree. Why not use Mathews as a comparison in terms of flourishing instead of picking Cushings as a failure? They both came out of USC in the same draft year. This is called selective memory and comparison.

Kirwan also has pretty close ties and understanding of the USC program. I think he has a much better perspective than you do about the situation.

Now whether his Cushing comparison to Bosa is valid is up for debate. But his observation about Cushing is solid.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Yeap, I totally agree. Why not use Mathews as a comparison in terms of flourishing instead of picking Cushings as a failure? They both came out of USC in the same draft year. This is called selective memory and comparison.

not really, Matthews was average at best at USC. never more than a handful of tackles or sacks, and really projected as a much better player at the next level. Cushing was the star at USC, however, I'm not that big on player comps. One player could easily compare to Ryan Leaf physically and still become the best QB in the NFL...as long as they don't compare to Ryan Leaf mentally

 

[dueyhemlock]

Probably because he's white and looks like a red neck. Scared of getting another Chris Long or end up with Greg Ellis 2.0. Scared of his family history of busts. Think he is maxed out, slow and can't bend the corner.

That's exactly why I want him.
Then I can have a new Bosa mural put on the side of my trailer over that golden cock one I have now.
I'll be the talk of the park.

"Hey everyone, Duey has a new mural on his double wide."

Mi famosa Bosa

Tony's our boy people. Most players get injured, it happens. Just remember that he started late in his career so his age (wear and tear) is a little misleading.

Continue to build the trenches.
It all starts up front with the big uglies.

 

[ctrous25]

I think if we were sitting at say the 14th pick and he fell to us most people here would be ecstatic tbh the fact that he's probably not that game changing player makes him a non sexy pick at 4

 

[BigStar]

Dane Brugler has his rated that high and still says he may not hit double digits in sacks. IMO Bosa has the upside of Greg Ellis but may already be maxed out. That is fine in the mid to late first round but there is no way I use a top 5 pick on him.

This! Ellis was a good player, but no Randy Moss

 

[Romotil45]

Watt was taken at 11

I think if we were sitting at say the 14th pick and he fell to us most people here would be ecstatic tbh the fact that he's probably not that game changing player makes him a non sexy pick at 4

Agree if we don't take him at 4 he could easily fall to 9 Tampa. Watt was taken at 11. So if he were your target why take him at 4 when he could be had at 7 and extra picks.

 

[BigStar]

That's exactly why I want him.
Then I can have a new Bosa mural put on the side of my trailer over that golden cock one I have now.
I'll be the talk of the park.

"Hey everyone, Duey has a new mural on his double wide."

Mi famosa Bosa

Tony's our boy people. Most players get injured, it happens. Just remember that he started late in his career so his age (wear and tear) is a little misleading.

Continue to build the trenches.
It all starts up front with the big uglies.

His last 3 years haven't exactly been good to Romo health wise; Back problems, Cortisone shots for ribs, clavicle (twice). Love Romo too, but snatch his heir if possible or even move up to TEN to get Wentz. Bosa won't win Romo a SB If you were being sarcastic (thought you were tbh until last statements, etc.) I apologize

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7...romo-ronde-barber-rely-new-painkiller-toradol

[Tony Romo Swallows Four Motrin isn't news. It's the injection part that raises some eyebrows among fans. NFL players simply shrug. "Toradol is a wonder drug," says former All-Pro safety Darren Sharper, who retired last year after 14 NFL seasons. "You get a shot in the butt, and within 10 minutes nothing hurts. And that feeling lasts the entire day."]

Romo is a tough SOB but age happens to everyone playing in the NFL.

 

[waving monkey]

not every year but last three years combined.


http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/joey_bosa_854118.html
site maybe slightly biased.

yes he leads a weak draft of pass rushers and @ 4 we can do better with another player @ another position

 

[unionjack8]

Prefer Lawson in a small trade down

 

[dueyhemlock]

His last 3 years haven't exactly been good to Romo health wise; Back problems, Cortisone shots for ribs, clavicle (twice). Love Romo too, but snatch his heir if possible. Bosa won't win Romo a SB If you were being sarcastic (thought you were tbh until last statements, etc.) I apologize

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7...romo-ronde-barber-rely-new-painkiller-toradol

We need D help now. Last year without Tony, we could have won some of those close games with better/more defensive help. Not to mention any help from a backup QB.

My preference would be trade the 4th pick. Pick D help later in the 1st round and try to set ourselves up for a future QB in a year or two. Then start grooming. Say a trade with the Rams. Our 4th overall for their 1st rounder, #15th, one of their second rounders and their 1st next year. Two 1st next year gives us option or just roll one again next year for the following year. Do this until we have the need or a QB that fits our situation.

Reading these threads all the time seems to lead to a short self life for Tony. I don't feel like that. I thinking 3-4 years myself. And if that's the case, we don't need a high draft pick riding the pine all that time. Either try a lower round developmental QB or wait a year or later for that guy.

 

[BigStar]

We need D help now. Last year without Tony, we could have won some of those close games with better/more defensive help. Not to mention any help from a backup QB.

My preference would be trade the 4th pick. Pick D help later in the 1st round and try to set ourselves up for a future QB in a year or two. Then start grooming. Say a trade with the Rams. Our 4th overall for their 1st rounder, #15th, one of their second rounders and their 1st next year. Two 1st next year gives us option or just roll one again next year for the following year. Do this until we have the need or a QB that fits our situation.

Reading these threads all the time seems to lead to a short self life for Tony. I don't feel like that. I thinking 3-4 years myself. And if that's the case, we don't need a high draft pick riding the pine all that time. Either try a lower round developmental QB or wait a year or later for that guy.

I like the Rams scenario if we don't move up and both QBs are gone and would use some of those picks for Joseph in the 2nd and who they deem BPA @ in 1st. Or use some of that ammo to move back into first if Lynch is their man (though I don't). D is definitely important, but just don't think Romo lasts 2 years at full health so understand we won't see eye to eye in our positions, etc. Even with a strong D, we would have been 1 and done in the playoffs.

I would be "okay" with Bosa if he fell to STL bc that's where I really see his range/potential fitting if not for a lack of other pure edge rushers in the 1st; the drug stuff scares me too seeing as we are having that same issue with Gregory (actually more athletic/higher ceiling than Bosa), but he was a talent that dropped to the late 2nd. We are still going all in w/Romo and think this is the prime opportunity to stop presenting that as our annual gameplan entering every season/game when we are selecting @ 4 for that exact reason; no Romo, no hope.

 

[Alexander]

Prefer Lawson in a small trade down

I would also, but unsure about how his shoulder checked out.

 

[Alexander]

We need D help now.

Seems like we say that every year, take a defender high and next to nothing changes.

My preference would be trade the 4th pick. Pick D help later in the 1st round and try to set ourselves up for a future QB in a year or two. Then start grooming.

I keep seeing this kind of projection. Get the future QB in a year or two. I really wish people would take a look at the QB classes in the next few years. Dallas will need to pick in the top five in those years to have a chance at a quality prospect. The QB position in the next few years is not promising in the least. If people turn up their noses at Goff, Wentz and Lynch now, wait until you get a load of what is coming up in the next two years.

If I am even thinking like this, I look at the future. It is the reverse logic of how people view taking Elliott this year, citing a deep class next year at RB. If you look at QB, it is practically a wasteland. Just something to seriously consider.

Say a trade with the Rams. Our 4th overall for their 1st rounder, #15th, one of their second rounders and their 1st next year. Two 1st next year gives us option or just roll one again next year for the following year. Do this until we have the need or a QB that fits our situation.

Help me understand the logic. QBs are not worth it, yet the Rams are just going to give up resources to get the QBs that we deem aren't good enough?

Do this until we have the need or a QB that fits our situation.

There is nothing worse than "needing" a player at the hardest position to evaluate in the sport. That is what leads to busts.

Reading these threads all the time seems to lead to a short self life for Tony. I don't feel like that. I thinking 3-4 years myself. And if that's the case, we don't need a high draft pick riding the pine all that time. Either try a lower round developmental QB or wait a year or later for that guy.

Your 3-4 year projection fits in some cases, especially in cases like a Brady or Brees where they have avoided big injuries this late in their career and they are in offenses that are designed to get the ball out of their hands quickly.

We have a back and a collarbone with Romo and a downfield offense that exposes him. They may be "freak" injuries, but they take a toll. If you want 3-4 years, you better do something to preserve that possibility or at least provide insurance in case you were wrong aboutit. Drafting a defender will do nothing to accomplish that goal.

 

[unionjack8]

I would also, but unsure about how his shoulder checked out.

That's the only drawback, when r medical recheck?

 

[Alexander]

That's the only drawback, when r medical recheck?

This coming Thursday.

But we used an official visit on his, so we have probably done our own work on it.

 

[Romotil45]

His last 3 years haven't exactly been good to Romo health wise; Back problems, Cortisone shots for ribs, clavicle (twice). Love Romo too, but snatch his heir if possible or even move up to TEN to get Wentz. Bosa won't win Romo a SB If you were being sarcastic (thought you were tbh until last statements, etc.) I apologize

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7...romo-ronde-barber-rely-new-painkiller-toradol

[Tony Romo Swallows Four Motrin isn't news. It's the injection part that raises some eyebrows among fans. NFL players simply shrug. "Toradol is a wonder drug," says former All-Pro safety Darren Sharper, who retired last year after 14 NFL seasons. "You get a shot in the butt, and within 10 minutes nothing hurts. And that feeling lasts the entire day."]

Romo is a tough SOB but age happens to everyone playing in the NFL.

Seems like we say that every year, take a defender high and next to nothing changes.



I keep seeing this kind of projection. Get the future QB in a year or two. I really wish people would take a look at the QB classes in the next few years. Dallas will need to pick in the top five in those years to have a chance at a quality prospect. The QB position in the next few years is not promising in the least. If people turn up their noses at Goff, Wentz and Lynch now, wait until you get a load of what is coming up in the next two years.

If I am even thinking like this, I look at the future. It is the reverse logic of how people view taking Elliott this year, citing a deep class next year at RB. If you look at QB, it is practically a wasteland. Just something to seriously consider.



Help me understand the logic. QBs are not worth it, yet the Rams are just going to give up resources to get the QBs that we deem aren't good enough?



There is nothing worse than "needing" a player at the hardest position to evaluate in the sport. That is what leads to busts.



Your 3-4 year projection fits in some cases, especially in cases like a Brady or Brees where they have avoided big injuries this late in their career and they are in offenses that are designed to get the ball out of their hands quickly.

We have a back and a collarbone with Romo and a downfield offense that exposes him. They may be "freak" injuries, but they take a toll. If you want 3-4 years, you better do something to preserve that possibility or at least provide insurance in case you were wrong aboutit. Drafting a defender will do nothing to accomplish that goal.

Good points you are right the Qb draft classes right now for the next two years seem bleak. So the question is do we bet on Romo staying healthy the next two years. Or reach for a Rookie QB in the first round that will not be any better than Moore. Can we be sure Goff or Lynch is a short term upgrade over Moore ? Yes a long term upgrade not a short term upgrade. Moore knows the offense and got experience last year at the end of season something the rookie don't have. I say bet on Romo to stay healthy and Moore as a better short term answer than a reach for a rookie in the first round. Select a developmental QB in the 3rd to eventually be a better backup than Moore in two years. Keep rolling the dice and bet on Romo. You also right the ball needs to come out quicker but that's on Garrett and OC. Will it change it should.

 

[dueyhemlock]

Help me understand the logic. QBs are not worth it, yet the Rams are just going to give up resources to get the QBs that we deem aren't good enough?

We have our QB (top five @ his position) unlike the Rams. Ours might be injured as of late but he still played through a lot of those injuries. He is not down and out as many would have it. Rams need that new shiny QB for their move and their franchise.

There is nothing worse than "needing" a player at the hardest position to evaluate in the sport. That is what leads to busts.

Extra draft ammo gives you options. Bad QB year or not, and you still have that trade option with other teams / free agents also.

Your 3-4 year projection fits in some cases, especially in cases like a Brady or Brees where they have avoided big injuries this late in their career and they are in offenses that are designed to get the ball out of their hands quickly.

We have a back and a collarbone with Romo and a downfield offense that exposes him. They may be "freak" injuries, but they take a toll. If you want 3-4 years, you better do something to preserve that possibility or at least provide insurance in case you were wrong aboutit. Drafting a defender will do nothing to accomplish that goal.

We have been doing something, those big boys up front. It's just starting to come together.

That latest collarbone injury was due to an uncovered rusher and the way Tony landed. Not to mention the fact that the defender put all his weight into the tackle driving his shoulder and Tony into the ground. To me, looked like an attempt to injury. But that's foozeball.

I do agree about our passing attack. We do need more faster, short to intermediate passing routes and not as much as those slow developing ones. Tony needs to learn to sometimes throw the ball away and live to play another day so to say.

 

[btcutter]

Kirwan also has pretty close ties and understanding of the USC program. I think he has a much better perspective than you do about the situation.

Now whether his Cushing comparison to Bosa is valid is up for debate. But his observation about Cushing is solid.

Both are major football programs and produced numerous NFL players. You can't possibly say Ohio St has much better weight program and players from there are closer to maxing out?