Why we shouldn't devalue what got us there

[Silver N Blue]

So what made Demarco elite? Or was he always elite?


I still think Demarco and McFadden are very similar players. It's hard to say that right now. 12 months ago.. Not so much.

So we'll see.

I don't consider Murray Elite. Elite takes more than one year to earn that status.

 

[CATCH17]

I don't consider Murray Elite. Elite takes more than one year to earn that status.

So currently in the NFL the only real elite guys would be Peterson & Lynch with Leveon Bell and Murray having 1 foot in the door.

 

[Silver N Blue]

So currently in the NFL the only real elite guys would be Peterson & Lynch with Leveon Bell and Murray having 1 foot in the door.

IMO I would agree with that statement. Bell is on the verge but is two year sucess even worthy to be considered elite? That is a special designation for any position imo. I think it would be hard to argue what Gore has done in his career as well.

 

[IrishAnto]

While I do agree that we should not have resigned DeMarco to the size of the contract the Eagles did I do not think that his replacement should be overlooked. For us to go into the season with a running back in McFadden who basically slid down to 3rd on the depth chart at one point last season is crazy. I also wouldn't want to count on Randle who has done some idiotic things and who can't be counted on. After those two is nothing more than a 3rd down gimmick tailback in Dunbar and Ryan Williams, a guy who has missed 5 times the games he has been available for.
We all witnessed our great run last year that included a tough road win at Seattle. Anyone who watched the way Murray ran in that game should know that the passion of our team ran through him. The running back position should not be devalued just because we have one of the best lines in the league. It should be our biggest need to find the best back to take advantage of our biggest strength.
This will be the most important draft of the Stephen Jones era, even bigger than the passing on Johnny Football last year. This is the draft that will either propel us further into the playoffs or push us further away from the 12-4 season we had last year. We didn't win and lose games last year based on our corner back position but we did based on our running game.

While I would like to see them draft a quality RB in the early rounds, I also believe if we’re predicating our success next season on a single RB’s performance we may be in for a big disappointment.

It’s a team game and all aspects need to be performing at a certain level to succeed.

And while greatly improved over 2013 the defense still needs a major upgrade in order for us to get to where we want to go.

 

[CATCH17]

IMO I would agree with that statement. Bell is on the verge but is two year sucess even worthy to be considered elite? That is a special designation for any position imo. I think it would be hard to argue what Gore has done in his career as well.

Gore, Lesean, their best days are behind them..


Oh, how could I forget Jamaal Charles.. That guy is elite. I rate him above Lynch.

 

[Silver N Blue]

Gore, Lesean, their best days are behind them..


Oh, how could I forget Jamaal Charles.. That guy is elite. I rate him above Lynch.

Yeah AD, Lynch, Charles, Gore.....Forte with a foot in the door. I would put Shady as the senior with the "new group"...Shady, Bell, Murray, Anderson, Hyde...this group has a long way to go though to be considered elite.

 

[marchetta]

While I do agree that we should not have resigned DeMarco to the size of the contract the Eagles did I do not think that his replacement should be overlooked. For us to go into the season with a running back in McFadden who basically slid down to 3rd on the depth chart at one point last season is crazy. I also wouldn't want to count on Randle who has done some idiotic things and who can't be counted on. After those two is nothing more than a 3rd down gimmick tailback in Dunbar and Ryan Williams, a guy who has missed 5 times the games he has been available for.
We all witnessed our great run last year that included a tough road win at Seattle. Anyone who watched the way Murray ran in that game should know that the passion of our team ran through him. The running back position should not be devalued just because we have one of the best lines in the league. It should be our biggest need to find the best back to take advantage of our biggest strength.
This will be the most important draft of the Stephen Jones era, even bigger than the passing on Johnny Football last year. This is the draft that will either propel us further into the playoffs or push us further away from the 12-4 season we had last year. We didn't win and lose games last year based on our corner back position but we did based on our running game.

Which is why it's great to hear that we're potentially targeting Melvin Gordon (RB Wisconsin). Rumor is there's a trade agreement in place between Dallas and Miami if Gordon reaches Miami's pick. Our 1st, 3rd, and next year's 4th for Miami's 1st.

 

[CATCH17]

Yeah AD, Lynch, Charles, Gore.....Forte with a foot in the door. I would put Shady as the senior with the "new group"...Shady, Bell, Murray, Anderson, Hyde...this group has a long way to go though to be considered elite.

Ahhh Forte.. Forgot him as well. I'd say he is still elite.

Out of that entire list I think 2 of them were first rounders lol

 

[Doomsday101]

RBs are proven to be a dime a dozen.

Denver trots out whoever and they produce.


So many teams who truly want to run the football run it with whoever they throw back there.

That's why smart teams don't spend a lot of money on that position.. It's a dime a dozen position.


Just don't neglect the run. That's all I ask.

No position in football is a dime a dozen, RB just like any other position will have players with elite talent and those who are JAGS. Teams around the NFL are not the same they do not run the same offense, for some teams running is a very important part of what they do. Seahawks do not operate their offense like the Pats do or GB does but it works for them. 90's Cowboys were nothing like the west cost or red gun offense of some of the top offense in the league but where highly successful in what we did. Dallas can't look to what others do and try to emulate them they need to come out with their own style of football built on our strengths which is the OL and balanced offense.

 

[Silver N Blue]

Ahhh Forte.. Forgot him as well. I'd say he is still elite.

Out of that entire list I think 2 of them were first rounders lol

Good point didn't look at it like that just hammers the point home you can find a bellcow after the first round.

 

[superonyx]

Your revisionist telling of Williams' past was entertaining but just not quite complete. He never produced at a level worthy of his draft pick because he suffered a season ending injury in his first training camp (2011). Not given a real chance his 2nd season and suffered a shoulder injury his 3rd season.

You mentioned the Cowboys cut him last year but that's not the whole story about that. If you think he was cut because the other RBs ran the ball better, you'd be wrong. They cut him because he needed to improve is pass blocking skills after being out of football the previous year due to his shoulder injury. They were so impressed with his running skills, they shut him down early from playing the last couple of preseason game so there wouldn't be tape on him and thus increase his chances of clearing the waiver wire. They wanted to put him on the practice squad to work on his blocking. For that reason and coming off a serious injury, he did not make the 53-man roster.

Now that he's had the extra year of working on his pass blocking with the Cowboy's coaching staff, they think Williams can be a complete and quality RB. Now we will see why the Cowboys valued him over Murray 4 years ago.

As for drafting a rookie RB... it's not going to happen with the first 3 picks. The draft starts today so wait and see how right I am.

Haha.... Thanks for the entertaining post.
At least you refrained from the insults and attacks on this one.

RW didn't light it up last preseason. It's funny that you claim they shut him down so he didn't get picked up by anyone else. Didn't RW average less than 4 ypc in preseason before being "shut down"?

Look at the facts. RW hasn't produced jack since his freshman year. He has either been hurt, a healthy scratch or a member of the junior varsity Cowboys (practice squad). His 5 games of real play didn't show anything good.

Look I love a good Cinderella story and I hope he comes in and makes us forget about Murray. If Dallas adds a back in the draft then it looks like Williams will only make the team if he beats out Randle...as much of a knucklehead as Randle is his body of work is superior to RW up to this point.

Don't worry so much about being right or wrong. This is an Internet message board where we all have different opinions and we should welcome others opinions without feeling threatened or insecure. Enjoy the draft.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

None of that is true. We were significantly worse at picking up first downs on first down than we were in 2013 (we dropped from 26.6 percent to 20.4 percent), and we were slightly worse on second downs (dropping from 37.1 percent to 36.7 percent). That obviously makes sense, considering that we passed less and ran more on those downs -- and running picks up fewer yards (and fewer first downs), on average.

As a result, we faced third downs more often in 2014 than we did in 2013 -- 201 times, compared with 180 times in 2013, despite having seven fewer drives than we did in 2013.

We also faced third-and-11 or more 41 times last year, compared with only 34 times in 2013. But like Percy said, our passing game was still much more effective on those plays -- converting at a 29 percent rate, compared with only 17 percent in 2013.

That's a bit misleading as we ran 57 more plays this season than in 2013. Furthermore, we had the lead for longer periods throughout the season, so it is going to make us try and run the clock down on 1st and 2nd down a little more than trying to get the first down.





YR

 

[CATCH17]

Haha.... Thanks for the entertaining post.
At least you refrained from the insults and attacks on this one.

RW didn't light it up last preseason. It's funny that you claim they shut him down so he didn't get picked up by anyone else. Didn't RW average less than 4 ypc in preseason before being "shut down"?

Look at the facts. RW hasn't produced jack since his freshman year. He has either been hurt, a healthy scratch or a member of the junior varsity Cowboys (practice squad). His 5 games of real play didn't show anything good.

Look I love a good Cinderella story and I hope he comes in and makes us forget about Murray. If Dallas adds a back in the draft then it looks like Williams will only make the team if he beats out Randle...as much of a knucklehead as Randle is his body of work is superior to RW up to this point.

Don't worry so much about being right or wrong. This is an Internet message board where we all have different opinions and we should welcome others opinions without feeling threatened or insecure. Enjoy the draft.

What I want to know is who do you guys want?

The only way we're acquiring an elite RB is if we trade up for Gurley in tonights draft.

Im a Gordon fan but im not even sold on him being much better then guys that will go 2 rounds later.

 

[Doomsday101]

None of that is true. We were significantly worse at picking up first downs on first down than we were in 2013 (we dropped from 26.6 percent to 20.4 percent), and we were slightly worse on second downs (dropping from 37.1 percent to 36.7 percent). That obviously makes sense, considering that we passed less and ran more on those downs -- and running picks up fewer yards (and fewer first downs), on average.

As a result, we faced third downs more often in 2014 than we did in 2013 -- 201 times, compared with 180 times in 2013, despite having seven fewer drives than we did in 2013.

We also faced third-and-11 or more 41 times last year, compared with only 34 times in 2013. But like Percy said, our passing game was still much more effective on those plays -- converting at a 29 percent rate, compared with only 17 percent in 2013.

Dallas was 26th in 3rd down attempts this past season yet we were 2nd in converting 3rd downs much of that is because running the ball kept us is manageable 3rd down situations. Passing is very important to Dallas like it is any team the run game has also been a very important part of the offense. It has kept us in more manageable down and distance. Dallas has done the pass happy routine it does not work we are not GB we are not Denver or the Pats but what Dallas does works.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

First, he was only average in short yardage and goal line until 2014, then suddenly he was the best in the league.

Then there's Dallas' average rush on 1st down (league rank)
2012 - 30th
2013 (games 1-8) 16th
2013 (games 9-16) 3rd
2014 - 1st

Note how the first-down run average gradually improved by the end of 2013 (30th to 16th to 3rd) even without a commitment to the run.
1st Down Run/Pass
2012: 41.3% / 58.7%
2013 (games 1-8): 46.1% / 53.9%
2013 (games 9-16): 43.0% / 57.0%
2014: 69.5% / 30.5%

Was the shift toward the run on 1st down really the cause of the improved OL play, or was it just a reaction to it?

I'm sure the improve O-Line helped. However, Garrett did say in a press conference (I believe it was after the win @ Philly) that you have to stick with the running game even when you're getting those 'ugly' runs, citing keeping the defense off the field, wearing the opponent out down the stretch, etc. And as you noted, we were 3rd in average rush on 1st down in the 2nd half of 2013 and started running the ball less. The O-Line certainly improved in the 2nd half of 2013, but the playcalling didn't recognize it. So it makes me believe that the improve O-Line probably wasn't the main motivator for changing the style and it was probably a combination of keeping the defense off the field, using the O-Line to our advantage since we had three 1st round picks and trying to keep Romo healthy as well.

I perfectly understand how throwing the ball more effectively helps promote the run and the same with improving your defense. But I think in this case the more productive run game by simply running the ball more often created the more effective passing game and helped the defense get better. We will probably need to switch up our playcalling on 1st and 2nd down a bit more as I don't think our running game will be as effective, but I still think it is an imperative to at the very least balance out the playcalling and not neglect the run.





YR

 

[Alexander]

So what made Demarco elite? Or was he always elite?

If you believe what Green Bay's defenders stated after the game with them in 2013, yes. And that was Zack Martin-less.

I still think Demarco and McFadden are very similar players. It's hard to say that right now. 12 months ago.. Not so much.

So we'll see.

I would prefer not to find out the hard way that they are not.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

What I want to know is who do you guys want?

The only way we're acquiring an elite RB is if we trade up for Gurley in tonights draft.

Im a Gordon fan but im not even sold on him being much better then guys that will go 2 rounds later.

I like Gurley because he works with Fred McCrary (who I have golfed with, great guy BTW) and McCrary is the one that trained Murray before the draft. So, I have confidence that McCrary, a long time NFL vet, knows how to train RB talent. Plus, I think Gurley is going to be better at catching passes out of the backfield. Other than that, I would probably go with Duke Johnson. I think we should go after BPA at either QB, RB, OG, OT, DE, DT, LB, CB and S. If it is a tie, I would favor the defensive player. If it is a tie between offensive players, I would favor the RB since I think drafting 4 first round O-Linemen is likely going to cause contract issues down the road. But, if there is a definitive best player on the board that fits our system and is in one of those positions, I want that player taken.






YR

 

[CATCH17]

If you believe what Green Bay's defenders stated after the game with them in 2013, yes. And that was Zack Martin-less.



I would prefer not to find out the hard way that they are not.

We'll have enough capable options that if McFaddens incredible physical ability flops here in Dallas someone will step in and get the yards that our OLine provides.

Finding a guy with vision may be an instant upgrade over Murray.

There was a reason Randle weaved and cut through traffic like it was no big deal everytime he got on the field last year.



Joseph Randle last year.

51 carries, 343 yards, 6.7 avg, 3 TD's.

I think he would produce well for us if given a bigger workload.

 

[CATCH17]

I like Gurley because he works with Fred McCrary (who I have golfed with, great guy BTW) and McCrary is the one that trained Murray before the draft. So, I have confidence that McCrary, a long time NFL vet, knows how to train RB talent. Plus, I think Gurley is going to be better at catching passes out of the backfield. Other than that, I would probably go with Duke Johnson. I think we should go after BPA at either QB, RB, OG, OT, DE, DT, LB, CB and S. If it is a tie, I would favor the defensive player. If it is a tie between offensive players, I would favor the RB since I think drafting 4 first round O-Linemen is likely going to cause contract issues down the road. But, if there is a definitive best player on the board that fits our system and is in one of those positions, I want that player taken.






YR

If I have to wait for a RB im a big David Johnson and TJ Yeldon fan.


IMO David Johnson has as much upside as any RB in this draft.. Is he the 3rd, 4th, or even top 6 back right now? Maybe, but probably not.

A couple years from now I think David Johnson develops into one of the best backs in this draft. It may not even take a couple of years.

 

[Alexander]

There was a reason Randle weaved and cut through traffic like it was no big deal everytime he got on the field last year.

That one play has been so overrated it is tragic. There is more to being a quality back than making an unreal play. It is about consistency, not tearing off a long run and faking a beaten down Chicago defender out of his jock in trash time.