Will McClay. Thank you, sir.

[waldoputty]

TFred. There was a big dispute in the war room between Ciscowski and the defensive coaching staff over Sharrif Floyd before they traded down to take Frederick. Ciscowski was demoted after that and replaced by McClay.

But TFred was a great pick.
Probably the correct pick over Floyd who is now starting for vikings after some bad times.

So the dispute is about managing conflicting opinions and personalities?
If so, that does not seem that impossible to replace.

Did we not just had the same issue with Zeke over the DB?
Thought coaches wanted Zeke while scouting wanted the DB.
I would have to believe he has to offer more than adult supervision?

 

[Common Sense]

But TFred was a great pick.
Probably the correct pick over Floyd who is now starting for vikings after some bad times.

So the dispute is about managing conflicting opinions and personalities?
If so, that does not seem that impossible to replace.

Did we not just had the same issue with Zeke over the DB?
Thought coaches wanted Zeke while scouting wanted the DB.
I would have to believe he has to offer more than adult supervision?

Scouts had Floyd ranked something like #5 overall. Kiffin and Marinelli didn't think he could play 3T. Basically, the whole draft board was a nightmare because it wasn't set up to reflect the new scheme. Ciskowski didn't do any of his homework.

 

[waldoputty]

Scouts had Floyd ranked something like #5 overall. Kiffin and Marinelli didn't think he could play 3T. Basically, the whole draft board was a nightmare because it wasn't set up to reflect the new scheme. Ciskowski didn't do any of his homework.

So that was about Ciskowski needed to be replaced because he was incompetent and lazy.
Actually the end result was good.
So does that mean there was a last minute draft room meltdown because one side said their priorities were not reflected in the ratings.
If that is the case, the lack of communication would not only reflect badly on Ciskowski, but everyone else.
That would be ridiculous to the point of being comical.

 

[Plankton]

So that was about Ciskowski needed to be replaced because he was incompetent and lazy.
Actually the end result was good.
So does that mean there was a last minute draft room meltdown because one side said their priorities were not reflected in the ratings.
If that is the case, the lack of communication would not only reflect badly on Ciskowski, but everyone else.
That would be ridiculous to the point of being comical.

It reflects even worse on the GM, who is supposed to be overseeing the whole process, but that's like shouting into a canyon.

 

[waldoputty]

It reflects even worse on the GM, who is supposed to be overseeing the whole process, but that's like shouting into a canyon.

I assume everyone accepts Jerry is just a figure head, so Ciskowski was essentially the GM.
Unless what you are saying is that no one was given the GM role (not title), and that Ciskowski was the scapegoat.

 

[Plankton]

I assume everyone accepts Jerry is just a figure head, so Ciskowski was essentially the GM.
Unless what you are saying is that no one was given the GM role (not title), and that Ciskowski was the scapegoat.

Make no mistake about it - Jerry Jones is the GM of this team. It's his responsibility to make sure that the process is working correctly. Ciskowski was absolutely made a scapegoat by being demoted.

 

[waldoputty]

Make no mistake about it - Jerry Jones is the GM of this team. It's his responsibility to make sure that the process is working correctly. Ciskowski was absolutely made a scapegoat by being demoted.

I see what you are saying but it is hard to believe the team could have operated all this time in this way.
Jerry is a big picture sales guy who is good at what he does, but he is simply not the detail or diligent type.

There should have been many other draft room melt downs if there was no one doing any GM tasks.

 

[xwalker]

I agree although with the high percentage of players we probably could present an argument that they actually might be more in tune , have a better eye, relate , etc with the majority of players which could present an advantage over others with equal qualifications and or experience.

I don't think so.

Do prison wardens need to be criminals?

Are the CEOs of companies that manufacture plumbing products actually plumbers?

 

[Plankton]

I see what you are saying but it is hard to believe the team could have operated all this time in this way.
Jerry is a big picture sales guy who is good at what he does, but he is simply not the detail or diligent type.

There should have been many other draft room melt downs if there was no one doing any GM tasks.

If you think about it, the fact that it has been set up that way explains a lot.

All one needs to do is take a look back at what happened prior for validation.

 

[Diehardblues]

I don't think so.

Do prison wardens need to be criminals?

Are the CEOs of companies that manufacture plumbing products actually plumbers?

I'm not sure the prison Warden for that matter is a good anology but I would say that I'd probably want a Warden who could relate more to the demographic of the prison population .

 

[waldoputty]

If you think about it, the fact that it has been set up that way explains a lot.

All one needs to do is take a look back at what happened prior for validation.

I dont remember much about the draft room antics before the last few years.
I think the recent postings of the draft boards probably got me more interested.

It is still hard for me to believe no one was performing the role of the GM.
And I dont mean Jerry because he simply does not appear to be the one.

Jerry is the deal closer and he is really good at it.
I have met people with his type of personalty.
They get to be the face of the organization that grabs all the limelight.
There must be someone minding the store or there would be many good stories of many disasters.
Furthermore, if disasters did happened, the team must have done something to make sure the critical coordination tasks are done.
Otherwise they simply cannot function.

 

[xwalker]

I'm not sure the prison Warden for that matter is a good anology but I would say that I'd probably want a Warden who could relate more to the demographic of the prison population .

That has never evolved to actually happen. The core prison population average age is almost always going to be a couple of decades below the age of the Warden (on average).

The Warden has Correctional Officers many of whom can relate to the inmates.

Football teams have assistant coaches (Leon Lett, etc.) for this purpose.

It's 2016. The best candidates get the job (on average) in this country regardless of race or gender.

 

[Diehardblues]

That has never evolved to actually happen. The core prison population average age is almost always going to be a couple of decades below the age of the Warden (on average).

The Warden has Correctional Officers many of whom can relate to the inmates.

Football teams have assistant coaches (Leon Lett, etc.) for this purpose.

It's 2016. The best candidates get the job (on average) in this country regardless of race or gender.

I didn't mean the age.

You may want to believe this country doesn't discriminate but I'd beg to differ especially here in the South.

What I'm saying is given all things equal is if there was a prison population with a majority of one race I'd lean to hiring a Warden of that predominate race. Their qualifications might not even have to be equal.

If you feel the need to continue this discussion perhaps we should take it up on PM.

 

[waldoputty]

I see what you are saying but it is hard to believe the team could have operated all this time in this way.
Jerry is a big picture sales guy who is good at what he does, but he is simply not the detail or diligent type.

There should have been many other draft room melt downs if there was no one doing any GM tasks.

This is what I believe happened.

Jason Garrett has been coach since 2010, so there is no reason that the coaches forgot to give the scouting department their input for the player selection. There were previous DC changes with huge impact, e.g. resulted in 4-3 to 3-4 back to 4-3.
It was probably the Scouting department's job to assemble the draft board, after getting all the feedback from the scouts and the coaches.
There is no way I will believe that the coaches did not provide the input.
So Ciskowski probably gave the ranking priority to his favorites overruling Coaches who were not involved in the board assembly.
Came draft day, the coaches were shocked with the draft board.
The power struggle followed and then the demotion.

Mistakes:
1. Obviously there was no mock draft and dry run of the draft to work out some mechanics with everyone involved. After 20 drafts or more, one would have thought that a short dry run would be standard operating procedure. If there was a dry run, some coach should have noticed where Floyd was rated.
2. A communication issue between scouting and coaches is basically inexcusable. That leads me to think that Scouting overruled coaches input when they crafted the board. That should lead to a demotion, but it is a mistake based on zeal.
3. You can blame Jerry and Stephen, but the coaches and Ciskowski should know that they are not getting any leadership coordination. The mechanics for coordination must have been in place though, as this was only the 4th draft under Garrett and Ciskowski was scouting director since 2008.

 

[xwalker]

But TFred was a great pick.
Probably the correct pick over Floyd who is now starting for vikings after some bad times.

So the dispute is about managing conflicting opinions and personalities?
If so, that does not seem that impossible to replace.

Did we not just had the same issue with Zeke over the DB?
Thought coaches wanted Zeke while scouting wanted the DB.
I would have to believe he has to offer more than adult supervision?

It appears that Floyd is injured. He is listed has having only played 1 game with no starts this season.

 

[xwalker]

I didn't mean the age.

You may want to believe this country doesn't discriminate but I'd beg to differ especially here in the South.

What I'm saying is given all things equal is if there was a prison population with a majority of one race I'd lean to hiring a Warden of that predominate race. Their qualifications might not even have to be equal.

Your hiring policy would be illegal. They most qualified person should get the job. Being of the same race, age, gender as the inmates is not a qualification for a prison Warden.

Profiling is not the same as discrimination. The police are more likely to pull over a young white male than an elderly black lady. That's profiling, not discrimination.

 

[Common Sense]

This is what I believe happened.

Jason Garrett has been coach since 2010, so there is no reason that the coaches forgot to give the scouting department their input for the player selection. There were previous DC changes with huge impact, e.g. resulted in 4-3 to 3-4 back to 4-3.
It was probably the Scouting department's job to assemble the draft board, after getting all the feedback from the scouts and the coaches.
There is no way I will believe that the coaches did not provide the input.
So Ciskowski probably gave the ranking priority to his favorites overruling Coaches who were not involved in the board assembly.
Came draft day, the coaches were shocked with the draft board.
The power struggle followed and then the demotion.

Mistakes:
1. Obviously there was no mock draft and dry run of the draft to work out some mechanics with everyone involved. After 20 drafts or more, one would have thought that a short dry run would be standard operating procedure. If there was a dry run, some coach should have noticed where Floyd was rated.
2. A communication issue between scouting and coaches is basically inexcusable. That leads me to think that Scouting overruled coaches input when they crafted the board. That should lead to a demotion, but it is a mistake based on zeal.
3. You can blame Jerry and Stephen, but the coaches and Ciskowski should know that they are not getting any leadership coordination. The mechanics for coordination must have been in place though, as this was only the 4th draft under Garrett and Ciskowski was scouting director since 2008.

There could be something to that, sure. All we know is the next year the scouting department and the coaching staff sat down and broke things down into very specific, granular levels, like what to look for in a LDE versus a RDE, or what makes a 3T different from a 1T. You would think that a competent scout would already know these things since the Tampa scheme has been popular since the 90s, but for some reason it didn't happen. It should have. There was obviously a lack of communication going on, starting with the coaching staff and Jerry and Stephen. For all they've done right over the last few years, we have to acknowledge that that's an elementary level screw up. Same with not knowing what to do with a backup QB in 2015.

 

[waldoputty]

There could be something to that, sure. All we know is the next year the scouting department and the coaching staff sat down and broke things down into very specific, granular levels, like what to look for in a LDE versus a RDE, or what makes a 3T different from a 1T. You would think that a competent scout would already know these things since the Tampa scheme has been popular since the 90s, but for some reason it didn't happen. It should have. There was obviously a lack of communication going on, starting with the coaching staff and Jerry and Stephen. For all they've done right over the last few years, we have to acknowledge that that's an elementary level screw up. Same with not knowing what to do with a backup QB in 2015.

so what you are saying is that the coaches did not give the scouts what to look for. insane. everyone deserves blame then. jerry and stephen deserve blame also. but it is not the coaches and the scouts first corral either.

unless marinelli requirements are just different than everyone else. though every DC should have their difference, as well as OC. really strange