Will not having a legit pass rusher hurt us down the stretch?

[RoboQB]

Interestingly I've heard the opposite. I have a buddy who went to U of New Mexico and followed the Mountain West conference closely and watched a lot of Boise State games and said that basically Lawrence tore it up in a couple of blowouts against the dregs of the conference and didn't do much against the better programs.

I am REALLY interested to finally see how he looks.

Hopefully, my friend is a better judge of talent than yours....

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

I can certainly agree...many times, like the Saints, they will make themselves one-dimensional. Lets be honest though, considering what happened in Dallas last year, their defense was pretty porous. If the current Dallas team had played them, they would have gotten whacked...straight up!

The combination of Miller and Ware, if they can both avoid wearing down toward the end (real possibility), gives them an edge that they did not have last year. The destruction of the injury-depleted 49ers was rather foreboding for the future, even considering the circumstances...Manning was playing pitch and catch...it could have been much worse.

Finally, it was Seattle's vaunted secondary that had a hand in said collapse of the Denver offense. It happened again this year in Seattle. Dallas simply does not have a secondary that is comparable. Yes, they play hard, disciplined and inspired football, but they will need to become MUCH better for a possible meeting with Denver. Eli had 3 TD's and was largely unfettered last week...that should be concerning because the older Manning has an even sharper knife. Dallas can certainly play keep away, but I don't know if that would be enough...I really just don't know.

I would also add that the Giants defenses of 2007 and 2011 (SBowl years) each had around 50 sacks for the season (52/48 respectively)...they were that disruptive and it was the biggest reason why they were able to derail the Patriots both times.

I hear you.

But I think you can double Von miller and take Ware out with one guy. Or Atleast render him ineffective pretty easily.

Eli, well, he really on sustained one full drive, with the help bs flag. The other two TD's were short field mistakes by us. He was pretty ineffective too.

I will say it plain and clear.
The pressure would be greater on Peyton than Romo in a Super Bowl.
I think Peyton falls again. Our defense can force him into making mistakes.

 

[kramskoi]

I hear you.

But I think you can double Von miller and take Ware out with one guy. Or Atleast render him ineffective pretty easily.

Eli, well, he really on sustained one full drive, with the help bs flag. The other two TD's were short field mistakes by us. He was pretty ineffective too.

I will say it plain and clear.
The pressure would be greater on Peyton than Romo in a Super Bowl.
I think Peyton falls again. Our defense can force him into making mistakes.

I hear you and my opinion has evolved a bit since reading some op-eds in BTB...seems in regard to pressures, Dallas and Houston have been doing similar things. So they are doing good things. Another factor that we must probably acknowledge is that NY has switched to a West Coast type scheme, designed to get the ball out of Eli's hands VERY quickly and reduce turnovers. The problem with that is the downfield stuff is simply not there...not when your o-line can't protect. I think his completion percentage has risen but his y/att may have dropped. That will be the Achilles heel of the Giants going forward, if they can't get the line issues resolved...not unlike what Rodgers has experienced in Green Bay, although Rodgers is much more lethal from the standpoint of improvisation and (especially) throwing on the run. He's the only guy that can match Romo's penchant for escapism. That makes him much more dangerous than Peyton.

You have to get a guy like Rodgers on the ground as soon as possible, because like Romo, he has a nasty habit of surviving and extending the play, which then kills the resolve of the opposing defense. You saw it after the Williams catch on 3rd and 20 against Seattle. Their defense simply collapsed after that play...it was all over.

 

[cowboys2233]

But this team hasn't seen a high powered offense yet. Not the likes of GB or Den.

Agreed. These are the types of offenses that still give me some concern too (although we dominated a Saints team that can theoretically throw the ball).

The first test comes with Arizona. Palmer is 10-2 the last twelve games. He sits in the pocket, he has the skill set to find the open man.

Disagree here. Palmer and the Cardinals do not come close to presenting the same passing threat as Denver or Green Bay. Even if we thoroughly beat that team, the initial question remains. I don't think we'll really know how we stand up to a high-powered passing attack until we play the Colts in Week 16. The Bears have talented WRs but Cutler is so streaky it's hard to say whether that will be a test. And the Eagles do NOT possess a strong outside passing attack. I look at their receivers and laugh.

 

[Plankton]

I will say it plain and clear.
The pressure would be greater on Peyton than Romo in a Super Bowl.

Nonsense. Pressure, or perceived pressure, is an individual thing. The pressure to win is the same on both by the nature of the position they play. Manning has already won a Super Bowl, Romo has not. Manning does not need additional validation by the masses for his greatness as a QB. Romo, by the preconceived narrative of him and his play, does.

Regardless, pressure is perceived, and individuals deal with it differently. If Romo guides the Cowboys to a Super Bowl, the pressure on him to win would be as big as it would be for his opponent.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

I hear you and my opinion has evolved a bit since reading some op-eds in BTB...seems in regard to pressures, Dallas and Houston have been doing similar things. So they are doing good things. Another factor that we must probably acknowledge is that NY has switched to a West Coast type scheme, designed to get the ball out of Eli's hands VERY quickly and reduce turnovers. The problem with that is the downfield stuff is simply not there...not when your o-line can't protect. I think his completion percentage has risen but his y/att may have dropped. That will be the Achilles heel of the Giants going forward, if they can't get the line issues resolved...not unlike what Rodgers has experienced in Green Bay, although Rodgers is much more lethal from the standpoint of improvisation and (especially) throwing on the run. He's the only guy that can match Romo's penchant for escapism. That makes him much more dangerous than Peyton.

You have to get a guy like Rodgers on the ground as soon as possible, because like Romo, he has a nasty habit of surviving and extending the play, which then kills the resolve of the opposing defense. You saw it after the Williams catch on 3rd and 20 against Seattle. Their defense simply collapsed after that play...it was all over.

Very good post.
I learned something from it. I love that.

Agreed. Eli, without the downfield stuff won't be able to lead the. Om long drives. Won't sustain.
Rodgers, I don't know, I think we are ok. Worst case scenarios we can run on them, control more than not and outshoot them.

So, if teams are going to the "get the ball out fast" then it works to our advantage. Jump a route once I a while, bang receivers hard off the line and after the catch and then send Barry "the stripper" Church to get the ball lol

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Nonsense. Pressure, or perceived pressure, is an individual thing. The pressure to win is the same on both by the nature of the position they play. Manning has already won a Super Bowl, Romo has not. Manning does not need additional validation by the masses for his greatness as a QB. Romo, by the preconceived narrative of him and his play, does.

Regardless, pressure is perceived, and individuals deal with it differently. If Romo guides the Cowboys to a Super Bowl, the pressure on him to win would be as big as it would be for his opponent.

I call you on your nonsense lol

Peyton knows that Romo can put play him in a game. Heck, the game Peyton won, he just barely did. With the help of Romo.


Wrong. Peyton needs to win another Super Bowl to lose "the greatest "regular" season quarterback label. Fact like it or not. It's that simple.

Romo will be cooler and be real about Super Bowl... Peyton will play the whole "PC" questions and answers.
Romo never winning won't be as much pressure as Peyton potentially losing 3 while his brother has 2 with 2 MVPs. That's just how it will play out.

 

[Plankton]

I call you on your nonsense lol

Peyton knows that Romo can put play him in a game. Heck, the game Peyton won, he just barely did. With the help of Romo.


Wrong. Peyton needs to win another Super Bowl to lose "the greatest "regular" season quarterback label. Fact like it or not. It's that simple.

Romo will be cooler and be real about Super Bowl... Peyton will play the whole "PC" questions and answers.
Romo never winning won't be as much pressure as Peyton potentially losing 3 while his brother has 2 with 2 MVPs. That's just how it will play out.

It's all opinion, but I completely disagree with yours, respectfully.

Manning needs no further validation for his career. He is in the conversation as the greatest to ever play the position. Has he lost a lot of big games? Absolutely. Did he ultimately win the Super Bowl? Yes, and as a result, the other stuff is minimized.

Romo, rightly or wrongly, is largely viewed as Charlie Brown trying to kick the football with Lucy holding it - in the place to succeed, but never quite doing it.

The pressure to perform and to win is an individual thing. Did Joe Montana have no pressure to win against the Bengals in 1988 despite winning two previously? Absolutely. He just dealt with it better than most who have played. To say that Peyton Manning has more pressure to win than his opponent is a media creation and narrative, not reality. Trust me - Russell Wilson felt plenty of pressure to win last year, because he has no idea whether he would ever get back there again.

 

[erod]

Opponents have scored 3 points or less in 15 of 28 quarters against the Dallas defense.

Think about that.

 

[cowboys1981]

As long as our offense wins the TOP battle with putting up points, it'll keep things as they are.

I know we aren't piling up sacks, but I like what I'm seeing pre snap with multiple defenders at the line. Way to keep QB's guessing.

Another pass rusher wouldn't hurt and I'm hoping Lawrence is that answer. I can't wait to see Lawrence blitz from one side and Carter from the LB spot on the other side. It's something for me to look forward to.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

It's all opinion, but I completely disagree with yours, respectfully.

Manning needs no further validation for his career. He is in the conversation as the greatest to ever play the position. Has he lost a lot of big games? Absolutely. Did he ultimately win the Super Bowl? Yes, and as a result, the other stuff is minimized.

Romo, rightly or wrongly, is largely viewed as Charlie Brown trying to kick the football with Lucy holding it - in the place to succeed, but never quite doing it.

The pressure to perform and to win is an individual thing. Did Joe Montana have no pressure to win against the Bengals in 1988 despite winning two previously? Absolutely. He just dealt with it better than most who have played. To say that Peyton Manning has more pressure to win than his opponent is a media creation and narrative, not reality. Trust me - Russell Wilson felt plenty of pressure to win last year, because he has no idea whether he would ever get back there again.

Yes it's opinion. The. There is the obvious stuff.

Greatest ever QB loses 3 SBs - kicks him down a notch

Romo will never be considered greatest ever. It's less pressure. He wasn't even drafted. He has massively overachieved.

Again, if manning loses 3 SBs. It changes everything. He needs yo even up SB win-loss.

Yep, it's opinion. Many share your and many share mine. All good.


The other thing is... Romo has proven that he can recover after things go bad. Manning just goes bad to worse to done.

 

[morasp]

Joel Bitonio. Good player for Nevada. Browns 2nd round pick this year and I believe he called Lawrence the best he's faced in his career.

He's legit. He's a natural pass rusher. People just have to be patient and realistic about what a rookie can do missing almost all of training camp and the entire preseason.

I think he also played against Barr so that's saying something.

 

[Plankton]

The other thing is... Romo has proven that he can recover after things go bad. Manning just goes bad to worse to done.

As a disclaimer, I am far from a Peyton Manning apologist. The media narrative of him is way off base, and in a lot of cases, insulting to the coaches that have worked with him. That being said....

In the second biggest game Manning ever won, he threw an interception in the second quarter that Asante Samuel returned for a touchdown. That pick 6 made the score 21-3, Patriots. Against a team that had been his personal bogeyman, Manning recovered to have the Colts score on 6 of their final 8 possessions (last one ran out the clock for the win), and complete 14 of 22 passes with a touchdown. He led an 80 yard scoring drive inside of 5 minutes left in the game to score the winning touchdown. He and the Colts went from 21-3 down to winning 38-34.

If that's not recovering after things go bad, I'm not sure what is.

 

[cnhnyy]

While pressures are nice, Sacks are way more important. Just ask Mr. J.J Watts about his near-miss sack.

 

[Bullflop]

The subject line appears to assume we won't have a legit pass rusher down the stretch. Not necessarily so. Guys like T. McClain and Melton should only get better as they recover further from their injuries. Youngsters like Tyrone Coleman and Davon Coleman stand to improve with additional experience as well. If that's not enough, Cameron Lawrence will be getting his first taste of live action vs. Az. Any assumption that we are doomed to be stuck minus a pass rush down the stretch isn't entirely realistic at all.

 

[burmafrd]

I hear you.

But I think you can double Von miller and take Ware out with one guy. Or Atleast render him ineffective pretty easily.

Eli, well, he really on sustained one full drive, with the help bs flag. The other two TD's were short field mistakes by us. He was pretty ineffective too.

I will say it plain and clear.
The pressure would be greater on Peyton than Romo in a Super Bowl.
I think Peyton falls again. Our defense can force him into making mistakes.

Ask Joe Staley about easily containing ware; he got at least two of his sacks against Staley

 

[burmafrd]

While pressures are nice, Sacks are way more important. Just ask Mr. J.J Watts about his near-miss sack.

Watts play would be called a pressure. And what happened?

 

[burmafrd]

So the "W" is no longer good enough? Eli was limited to a losing performance. He is capable of playing much better but our guys didn't let that happen.

63.6 % 248 yds 3 TDs 0 INTs 116.7 Rating
Yeah Eli could have played much better.

NOT.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

As a disclaimer, I am far from a Peyton Manning apologist. The media narrative of him is way off base, and in a lot of cases, insulting to the coaches that have worked with him. That being said....

In the second biggest game Manning ever won, he threw an interception in the second quarter that Asante Samuel returned for a touchdown. That pick 6 made the score 21-3, Patriots. Against a team that had been his personal bogeyman, Manning recovered to have the Colts score on 6 of their final 8 possessions (last one ran out the clock for the win), and complete 14 of 22 passes with a touchdown. He led an 80 yard scoring drive inside of 5 minutes left in the game to score the winning touchdown. He and the Colts went from 21-3 down to winning 38-34.

If that's not recovering after things go bad, I'm not sure what is.

Yes I remember that game well and thought to myself, wow he finally go that monkey off his back.

He is more likely to fold though. Pats beat him repeatedly up to that point. Then I believe again later on.


Hey... What are you complaining about. If we meet them you had better hope that I am right lol

 

[kramskoi]

It's all opinion, but I completely disagree with yours, respectfully.

Manning needs no further validation for his career. He is in the conversation as the greatest to ever play the position. Has he lost a lot of big games? Absolutely. Did he ultimately win the Super Bowl? Yes, and as a result, the other stuff is minimized.

Romo, rightly or wrongly, is largely viewed as Charlie Brown trying to kick the football with Lucy holding it - in the place to succeed, but never quite doing it.

The pressure to perform and to win is an individual thing. Did Joe Montana have no pressure to win against the Bengals in 1988 despite winning two previously? Absolutely. He just dealt with it better than most who have played. To say that Peyton Manning has more pressure to win than his opponent is a media creation and narrative, not reality. Trust me - Russell Wilson felt plenty of pressure to win last year, because he has no idea whether he would ever get back there again.

I think Romo might shed some of his detractors with a ring, but there is a sliver of football fans who will say it only happened because of the running game, the o-line, Murray, or (insert some stupendous reason). With some fans, the guy will never get what's due him. Eli Manning is an example of this, although Romo has much better career numbers than I think he will ever reach.

I agree on Wilson, because the average Superbowl appearance is every 8 or 9 years...you miss the window and it's all over. I look at New Orleans as an example. Brees, as good as he and that offense have been, its been 5 years now since that super season...and the current one looks to be going the way of the dogs as well. Dallas has to get this done in the next 3 - 4 years or Romo's "Charlie Brown" legacy, accurate or not, will remain intact...sad really, but it is what it is.