"Win-or-go-home" from a team point of view

[Rockport]

That's not good especially when your QB is handing the opposing defenses turnovers.

Romo threw 31 td's and only 10 int's in 2011 when the team went 8-8. Explain please.

 

[percyhoward]

As least we finally agree on something.

Yes. It's a good place to start an exploration of your theory that a pass offense's performance is more important than a pass defense's performance. Specifically, I'm trying to understand how you can make any distinction between the two performances. To that end, I have asked a question which you have yet to answer.

Can you think of even one game in which a team passed poorly against a pass defense that didn't perform well?

 

[KJJ]

I must have misunderstood you. As a Cowboy FAN I just thought you were sticking up for Romo and Garrett?

My bad...carry on.

So it's all been a misunderstanding? LOL

 

[KJJ]

Romo threw 31 td's and only 10 int's in 2011 when the team went 8-8. Explain please.

Romo threw the opening night game away vs the Jets with 2 of his 10 turnovers that season. Even Romo put the blame on himself for that loss. That game ended with another Romo ill-timed turnover. Three weeks later vs Detroit Romo had a monumental second half meltdown that resulted in the biggest blown lead in franchise history. His second half performance clearly cost the Cowboys that game. The following week vs NE Garrett botched that game with conservative play calling and deciding to take the ball out of Romo's hands in the final 3 minutes against the 31st ranked pass defense. The Cowboys could have easily wrapped that game up with a couple of short passes to Dez and Austin. He put the game in the hands of his defense still feeling the burn of Romo's 3 second half int's the week before. Allowing his defense that couldn't stop Stafford from getting the ball in the end zone in the 4th quarter to try and stop TOM BRADY and company from scoring was a dumb coaching move.

In week 13 against a crap Cardinals team Garrett's poor game management again reared its ugly head resulting in him icing his own kicker. Once again he didn't trust Romo with the ball and decided to settle for a 48 yard FG attempt. In week 14 Romo had a chance to pull off a huge play to Austin but the ball appeared to be slightly over thrown. It could have led to a win but in the end Eli got it done when it mattered most. In week 17 with the division title on the line and a playoff birth Romo had 2 turnovers and missed a wide open Dez that would have resulted in a big play early in the game that could have given the Cowboys some early momentum.

 

[dreghorn2]

Strange thread. Only caught the last few pages.

KJJ hang in there.

Let me see if i got this, the most asinine thing one poster has ever read is that the QB and head coach have more control over a teams wins and losses than any other individuals.

Uhh yes.. he's right, and if that's the craziest thing you have ever read, think about hitting the library.

Long term, particularly in today's NFL the player with by far the most influence in wins and losses is the QB. Head coaches, and the direction they give franchises, are perhaps the single most important contributing factor to a teams potential for success. There are always exceptions, and everything has to work together, but you start in good shape with those two spots, you are already ahead of the game.

Seeing as these two positions have the largest impact on a teams success, then naturally those two positions receive the most scrutiny and enjoy the most pressure to perform. They are a franchises go to 'guys', and correctly or not get the criticism (and the axe) if a team fails.

Nobody remembers poor games by linebackers in the playoffs (well most don't) but they certainly remember when QBs stumble.

 

[Section446]

Some of you just don't get it. Sure, that last interception in the Commander game was horrible. But you're not understanding that during the whole season he was constantly under pressure and running an offense with the 31st running game. This plays into how the game is called and how the QB has to respond. Put yourself in his situation knowing that at any time you're going to face some 300 lb DL in your face. It alters they way Romo has to play. Some people just don't seem to understand that and instead put all the blame on Romo.

That's just part of being a QB though. When you win, you're going to get too much credit, when you lose, you're going to take on too much of the blame. Romo isn't THE problem, but he's undoubtedly one of the problems.

 

[percyhoward]

Romo threw the opening night game away vs the Jets with 2 of his 10 turnovers that season. Even Romo put the blame on himself for that loss. That game ended with another Romo ill-timed turnover. Three weeks later vs Detroit Romo had a monumental second half meltdown that resulted in the biggest blown lead in franchise history. His second half performance clearly cost the Cowboys that game. The following week vs NE Garrett botched that game with conservative play calling and deciding to take the ball out of Romo's hands in the final 3 minutes against the 31st ranked pass defense. The Cowboys could have easily wrapped that game up with a couple of short passes to Dez and Austin. He put the game in the hands of his defense still feeling the burn of Romo's 3 second half int's the week before. Allowing his defense that couldn't stop Stafford from getting the ball in the end zone in the 4th quarter to try and stop TOM BRADY and company from scoring was a dumb coaching move.

In week 13 against a crap Cardinals team Garrett's poor game management again reared its ugly head resulting in him icing his own kicker. Once again he didn't trust Romo with the ball and decided to settle for a 48 yard FG attempt. In week 14 Romo had a chance to pull off a huge play to Austin but the ball appeared to be slightly over thrown. It could have led to a win but in the end Eli got it done when it mattered most. In week 17 with the division title on the line and a playoff birth Romo had 2 turnovers and missed a wide open Dez that would have resulted in a big play early in the game that could have given the Cowboys some early momentum.

Over the last two seasons, we're 11-6 when our pass D gets a pick, and 5-10 when they don't.

 

[KJJ]

Yes. It's a good place to start an exploration of your theory that a pass offense's performance is more important than a pass defense's performance. Specifically, I'm trying to understand how you can make any distinction between the two performances. To that end, I have asked a question which you have yet to answer.

Can you think of even one game in which a team passed poorly against a pass defense that didn't perform well?

You got it wrong! I'm saying the "performance" of the QB is more important than a pass defenses performance. Today QB's run and throw they provide a duel threat. It's not all about passing yards it's about efficiency, not turning the ball over and scoring TD's. Kaepernick put up 444 passing/rushing yards vs GB in the playoffs and accounted for 4 TD's through the air and on the ground. I mentioned many teams have won games with their pass defense giving up 300 + yards including the Ravens in the SB. Their defense got shredded but the key was Flacco played outstanding with no turnovers and the Ravens D kept the opposing QB from getting the ball in the end zone when the game was on the line. I keep saying it's not about how many passing yards a QB produces or how many passing yards a defense gives up it's about not turning the ball over and scoring TD's.

I'm sure there's plenty of games where a team passed poorly against a pass defense that didn't perform well. I've seen games where QB's have thrown passes right into the hands of a defender and they can't make the play. A QB can be off their game but sometimes a defense can't capitalize because they're not playing well. QB's can get away with some awful throws due to a defense not being sharp. The Cowboys defense has had games where the opposing QB was off but the defense dropped 2-3 possible int's. Jake Plummer didn't have a very good game vs the Cowboys on Thanksgiving in 05. The Cowboys missed on several int opportunities one of which was practically handed to TNew on a silver platter and would have resulted in an easy pick six. That botch by Newman ended up costing the Cowboys the game.

 

[KJJ]

Over the last two seasons, we're 11-6 when our pass D gets a pick, and 5-10 when they don't.

Over the past 2 seasons the Cowboys are 2-7 when Romo has multiple turnovers. When your QB is turning the ball over at a high rate the only real chance to overcome them is by creating some turnovers. You won't find a lot of wins on Romo's record in games where he suffered multiple turnovers.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Over the past 2 seasons the Cowboys are 2-7 when Romo has multiple turnovers. When your QB is turning the ball over at a high rate the only real chance to overcome them is by creating some turnovers. You won't find a lot of wins on Romo's record in games where he suffered multiple turnovers.

You could also say the Cowboys are 2-7 when the opposing defense forces multiple turnovers, right?

 

[KJJ]

You could also say the Cowboys are 2-7 when the opposing defense forces multiple turnovers, right?

You could if you were defending Romo but were all those turnovers "forced" by the defense or did Romo not force some of those himself?

 

[ScipioCowboy]

You could if you were defending Romo but were all those turnovers "forced" by the defense or did Romo not force some of those himself?

Conversely, are all turnovers attributed to the quarterback necessarily the quarterback's fault, especially when receivers bat passes up into the air or run the wrong route?

Let me ask you this: Would you rather the Cowboys play a game in which both Romo and the opposing quarterback post 100+ quarterback ratings, or would you rather the Cowboys play a game in which Romo puts in a middling performance while the opposing quarterback throws four picks?

 

[percyhoward]

.I'm sure there's plenty of games where a team passed poorly against a pass defense that didn't perform well. I've seen games where QB's have thrown passes right into the hands of a defender and they can't make the play...

Passes can be dropped too, you know. Counting incompletions as incompletions, INT as INT, TD as TD, etc...can you think of a game in which a team passed poorly against a pass defense that didn't perform well?

 

[KJJ]

Conversely, are all turnovers attributed to the quarterback necessarily the quarterback's fault, especially when receivers bat passes up into the air or run the wrong route?

Let me ask you this: Would you rather the Cowboys play a game in which both Romo and the opposing quarterback post 100+ quarterback ratings, or would you rather the Cowboys play a game in which Romo puts in a middling performance while the opposing quarterback throws four picks?

Not all of Romo's turnovers have been on him but some have especially the ill-timed ones when games have been on the line. The Cowboys are FAR more likely to win a game with a 4 int performance by the opposing QB and a middling performance by Romo than if Romo and the opposing QB both post 100 + passer ratings. Romo's lost several games over his career including the past 2 seasons when he and the opposing QB had 100 + passer ratings but see how many games you can find that Romo lost when he had an average performance and the opposing QB threw 4 picks. RARELY do you see a team win a game when their QB throws 4 picks.

 

[KJJ]

Passes can be dropped too, you know. Counting incompletions as incompletions, INT as INT, TD as TD, etc...can you think of a game in which a team passed poorly against a pass defense that didn't perform well?

All you're doing is wasting both our time I gave you a very thorough answer to that question. You're just looking to argue for the sake of arguing.

 

[percyhoward]

You won't find a lot of wins on Romo's record in games where he suffered multiple turnovers.

What makes you think this is only true of Romo, and not true of the opposing QB the Cowboys face on a weekly basis?

 

[percyhoward]

All you're doing is wasting both our time I gave you a very thorough answer to that question. You're just looking to argue for the sake of arguing.

I'm looking for a straight answer to my question. Preferably one that doesn't try to count incompletions as interceptions.

 

[KJJ]

What makes you think this is only true of Romo, and not true of the opposing QB the Cowboys face on a weekly basis?

Where did I say it's only true for Romo? Try reading my posts and look at the primary reason I gave for why the Ravens lost back to back AFC title games in 08 and 09.

 

[KJJ]

I'm looking for a straight answer to my question. Preferably one that doesn't try to count incompletions as interceptions.

You're just not satisfied with the answer I gave because it doesn't support your line of thinking.

 

[percyhoward]

Where did I say it's only true for Romo?

If it's true for every QB, then what makes the opponent's passing performance any less important than your own?

You're just not satisfied with the answer I gave because it doesn't support your line of thinking.

Your answer depends on a deus ex machina where good luck comes in out of nowhere and solves your problem. Assume that all luck is equal and that there are as many TD dropped as INT dropped. Can you think of a game in which a team passed poorly against a pass defense that didn't perform well?