Women's World Cup

[atlantacowboy]

You're repeating what people on reformussf says all the time and I tend to agree with you. It's up to the USSF and MLS, especially, to establish the academies and start teaching these kids how to play the game instead of just teaching them to win. But it's not just MLS. It's USL, NASL, or any other leagues to establish a system that is affordable and high in quality. But they will never get rid of pay to play which costs parents thousands of dollars pricing out kids in the inner cities.

There is an article earlier this year written on d**dspin (can't post articles from them on here I see) talking about how the pay to play is not only affecting parents, but affecting even the fans.

This is why I say the lack of talent and bylaws go hand and hand. It's all about money here and not about the game.

Its all about money everywhere. Those youth academies at Ajax and Juventus aren't free until the kids get older. Juventus youth academy is select and still charges 15k a year. French Africans play on the streets. You don't always need an expensive academy to develop talent. You do need a populace that loves the game.

 

[StylisticS]

Its all about money everywhere. Those youth academies at Ajax and Juventus aren't free until the kids get older. Juventus youth academy is select and still charges 15k a year. French Africans play on the streets. You don't always need an expensive academy to develop talent. You do need a populace that loves the game.

I don’t know about Juventus but I am reading that in most European cities, they are actually free or cost very little and that comes from a soccer coach.

 

[atlantacowboy]

I don’t know about Juventus but I am reading that in most European cities, they are actually free or cost very little and that comes from a soccer coach.

Did some reading. Not all the kids are treated the same. Some are like professional athletes being paid to train. I guess that's not surprising since talent is not evenly distributed among the populace. However, many of the academy practices in Europe would never fly here. The academic part of many are a sham. I read an article about a guy who was invited to join Read Madrid's academy at 15. He was asked to leave after his first year, b/c he wasn't good enough. He later got a full soccer scholarship at a college in the US.

 

[Galian Beast]

Obviously the UFC wanted women's MMA to be successful and they needed a vehicle to help accomplish that. That said she was still a big star, far bigger then any current female UFC fighter.

It wasn't just the female fighters that got far more technical, most of the male fighters today are more technical as well.

They did the same thing with Brock Lesner. He had zero technical skills, pretty much over whelmed people with his size and athleticism but brought a bunch of attention to the sport.

To suggest that all it is takes is promoting something heavily and it will entice people to watch is a bit of a reach.

Women's soccer is FAR more developed than women's MMA was when Rousey came along. The problem is still a lack of promotion. As for the vehicle the USWNT is a much larger vehicle than Rousey. Most importantly they aren't paper champions. You've created a straw man out of thin air.

 

[Galian Beast]

With soccer, its been the same story since the 70's. Soccer has been an "up and coming" sport since I was kid. The model for developing talent has been established in Europe. All we have to do is follow it. But, we continue to leave the sport in the hands of volunteer dads, high schools, and colleges..........we may keep the scores close against the big powerhouse nations, but even an average fan see that the disparity in talent is far greater than the final score. Its been that way for the past 50 years. All that changes are the names on the jerseys.

We've never had a Christian Pulisic before or anything close to him. The talent develop around him as well is the best we've ever had in this country at one time.

 

[Galian Beast]

She wasn't a fraud and nobody was forced to watch her fights. She got promoted heavilly after the UFC realized people were watching her fights. .....which were exciting and usually over quickly. Once other women realized they could make real money in the UFC, a higher caliber of female fighter emerged, but they would have had no opportunity were it not for Rousey. All of them owe her.

That's simply not true. Rousey started MMA in 2011. Holly Holm started boxing in professionally in 2002. She started MMA exactly the same time as Rousey. The problem was that Rousey was a paper champion fighting no one of note, which is how she was able to beat people so easily in a weight class tailor-made for her. She was able to duck the featherweights like Cyborg while dominating a weight class that never really was developed previously.

 

[Doomsday]

Women's soccer is FAR more developed than women's MMA was when Rousey came along. The problem is still a lack of promotion. As for the vehicle the USWNT is a much larger vehicle than Rousey. Most importantly they aren't paper champions. You've created a straw man out of thin air.

Nope, the UFC is far more popular then soccer is in the US and generates a lot more revenue.

The UFC also recognized that the market for women's MMA was bigger then they initially thought and changed directions after stating they would NEVER have women in the UFC.

 

[atlantacowboy]

We've never had a Christian Pulisic before or anything close to him. The talent develop around him as well is the best we've ever had in this country at one time.

Agree on Pulisic, disagree with the second part. I'll take the 1994 world cup team any day over what we have now. Thats my opinion and you have your own.

 

[atlantacowboy]

That's simply not true. Rousey started MMA in 2011. Holly Holm started boxing in professionally in 2002. She started MMA exactly the same time as Rousey. The problem was that Rousey was a paper champion fighting no one of note, which is how she was able to beat people so easily in a weight class tailor-made for her. She was able to duck the featherweights like Cyborg while dominating a weight class that never really was developed previously.

You are going to blame the UFC for trying to create a female star? lol Rousey put womans MMA on the map, and she did it by winning in exciting fashion. The matches were not staged like a WWE production. Rousey was legit and a lucky strike by Holm doesn't change that. Rousey lost that fight b/c she ignored her coaches and tried to stand with Holm. Nunez is in a different class and destroyed both Holm and Rousey.

Holm was not in the UFC until 2015. She was a Bellator fighter previously.

Cyborg is a well documented steroid freak and cheat.

 

[Galian Beast]

Nope, the UFC is far more popular then soccer is in the US and generates a lot more revenue.

The UFC also recognized that the market for women's MMA was bigger then they initially thought and changed directions after stating they would NEVER have women in the UFC.

Far more popular than soccer is in the us? Please prove that.

Also you prove my point where it comes to the fact that UFC unlike US Soccer recognized the potential in women's sports.

 

[Galian Beast]

You are going to blame the UFC for trying to create a female star? lol Rousey put womans MMA on the map, and she did it by winning in exciting fashion. The matches were not staged like a WWE production. Rousey was legit and a lucky strike by Holm doesn't change that. Rousey lost that fight b/c she ignored her coaches and tried to stand with Holm. Nunez is in a different class and destroyed both Holm and Rousey.

Holm was not in the UFC until 2015. She was a Bellator fighter previously.

Cyborg is a well documented steroid freak and cheat.

You've chosen the word blame. I didn't "blame" them for anything. Rousey is a fraud and found an opportunity and succeeded in that opportunity. She dominated people who were much lesser accomplished fighters than she was. The very second that stopped so did her success.

Holm didn't win by luck, she would have won 90 times out of 100. Rewatch the fight. Holm didn't let her get her into a grappling session and she isn't a world-class striker. Similarly, Holm was not a world-class MMA fighter. She was a world-class striker. Another paper champion who was quickly exposed as well.

 

[Galian Beast]

Agree on Pulisic, disagree with the second part. I'll take the 1994 world cup team any day over what we have now. Thats my opinion and you have your own.

We haven't seen the talent used properly yet. Quite a few players aren't even called up yet. But McKennie and others are also better than anyone we've had before too. Just look at Claudio Reyna's son... night and day compared to his father.

I mean, it's certainly an opinion, but you won't find anyone who agrees with that.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Far more popular than soccer is in the us? Please prove that.

Also you prove my point where it comes to the fact that UFC unlike US Soccer recognized the potential in women's sports.

MLS generated about $851 million in 2017 and the UFC generated about $700 million (that number dropped to $600 million in 2018...I do not know the MLS numbers)

 

[atlantacowboy]

You've chosen the word blame. I didn't "blame" them for anything. Rousey is a fraud and found an opportunity and succeeded in that opportunity. She dominated people who were much lesser accomplished fighters than she was. The very second that stopped so did her success.

Holm didn't win by luck, she would have won 90 times out of 100. Rewatch the fight. Holm didn't let her get her into a grappling session and she isn't a world-class striker. Similarly, Holm was not a world-class MMA fighter. She was a world-class striker. Another paper champion who was quickly exposed as well.

So, b/c Rousey beat them, they were lesser fighters. Got it. Forget that she was an Olympic bronze medalist in judo and 6th degree black belt in ju jitsu. Hardly the resume' of a "fraud". lol

 

[Galian Beast]

So, b/c Rousey beat them, they were lesser fighters. Got it. Forget that she was an Olympic bronze medalist in judo and 6th degree black belt in ju jitsu. Hardly the resume' of a "fraud". lol

Think you might struggle with logic a bit.

There are three elements of MMA. Grappling, takedowns, and striking.

Rousey was an accomplished medalist in judo. But you said it yourself. She was a bronze medalist. Two fighters finished better than her in 2008 in the Olympics.

Rousey is a fraud because she had no real competition in her weight class. She dropped a weight class so she could dominate a weight class that was newly created and has sparse talent. Becoming champion there, doesn't make her a GOAT. She was a paper champion who hadn't fought really accomplished fighters and as soon as she fought anyone with a semblance of ability, she quickly lost.

From Laila Ali

"She’s pretty much been exposed," Ali said. "She can’t take a punch. It doesn’t take anything away from her, what she did as a Judo champion, what she did in the Olympics. But she was basically built up by her promoter to be the best ever to fight, period, in any form of fighting, and it just never was true."

It's pretty obvious to anyone that she was a paper champion. There is a reason she ducked Cyborg, de Randaime, Shevchenko... Most of the fighters she fought had already taken Ls. I think she beat 3 undefeated fighters (in their MMA careers)

 

[atlantacowboy]

Think you might struggle with logic a bit.

There are three elements of MMA. Grappling, takedowns, and striking.

Rousey was an accomplished medalist in judo. But you said it yourself. She was a bronze medalist. Two fighters finished better than her in 2008 in the Olympics.

Rousey is a fraud because she had no real competition in her weight class. She dropped a weight class so she could dominate a weight class that was newly created and has sparse talent. Becoming champion there, doesn't make her a GOAT. She was a paper champion who hadn't fought really accomplished fighters and as soon as she fought anyone with a semblance of ability, she quickly lost.

From Laila Ali

"She’s pretty much been exposed," Ali said. "She can’t take a punch. It doesn’t take anything away from her, what she did as a Judo champion, what she did in the Olympics. But she was basically built up by her promoter to be the best ever to fight, period, in any form of fighting, and it just never was true."

It's pretty obvious to anyone that she was a paper champion. There is a reason she ducked Cyborg, de Randaime, Shevchenko... Most of the fighters she fought had already taken Ls. I think she beat 3 undefeated fighters (in their MMA careers)

Laila Ali? lmao

If this is your idea of logic, then it is you who is struggling with the concept.

 

[Rockport]

That's simply not true. Rousey started MMA in 2011. Holly Holm started boxing in professionally in 2002. She started MMA exactly the same time as Rousey. The problem was that Rousey was a paper champion fighting no one of note, which is how she was able to beat people so easily in a weight class tailor-made for her. She was able to duck the featherweights like Cyborg while dominating a weight class that never really was developed previously.

All 3 of them would kick yo ***....and mine.

 

[Galian Beast]

All 3 of them would kick yo ***....and mine.

I have 80 lbs on her, so I seriously doubt it, but whatever makes you feel good, not sure what that adds to this discussion.

 

[Rockport]

I have 80 lbs on her, so I seriously doubt it, but whatever makes you feel good, not sure what that adds to this discussion.

LOL!!!!! She’d kick yo *** in 30 secs or less.

 

[Galian Beast]

Laila Ali? lmao

If this is your idea of logic, then it is you who is struggling with the concept.

You're one of the few people who think because she beat jobbers in a division that was freshly formed excluding the major talent in women's fighting that she was a legitimate GOAT level champion.

Remind me who she beat to become champion in the first place. What champions did she beat? She dodged everyone who was at 145. She dodged fighters like Nunes and Holm. Had UFC created a proper tournament or ranking system, she wouldn't have been champion in the first place or at the very least wouldn't have been for long.