Women's World Cup

[Rockport]

Let's look at Rousey's opponents (let's stick with UFC for now)

1. Liz Carmouche, age 35, still fighting, but not as a bantamweight ranked 3rd (4th) in flyweight.
2. Miesha Tate, age 32, retired in 2016. Probably the best Rousey beat. Only champion, though not at the time Rousey fought her. Last fight was against 6th (7th) ranked bantamweight fighter.
3. Sara McMann, age 38, currently ranked 11th (12) in bantamweight.
4. Alexis Davis, age 34, currently ranked 7th (8th) in flyweight.
5. Cat Zigano, age 37, currently ranked 8th (9th) in bantamweight.
6. Beth Correia, age 36, unranked, but just recently lost to 10th (11th) ranked bantamweight fighter.
7. Holly Holm, age 37, 3rd ranked (4th). Beat Rousey.
8. Amanda Nunes, age 31, champion, beat rousey.

Should be noted that Rousey is 32, but what do all these fighters have in common except Holm and Nunes? They aren't ranked very high in that bantam weight class. The only two that were both destroyed her in the ring. As soon as she started fighting legitimate fighters, she started losing. As the division continue to form, she decided to retire at 29 or 30. There's no more hiding, so what did she do? She quit... I'm not even sure how people are trying to argue counter to that.

US Women’s soccer is the best in the WORLD and has been for a long time.

 

[DFWJC]

US Women’s soccer is the best in the WORLD and has been for a long time.

No doubt.

This is mainly due to the fact that far more young girls play organized soccer in the US...and have for decades.

While soccer is the world's sport for boys/men, it has not necessarily been that for girls/women.
Slowly, other countries are making it more accessible and have youth girls programs.
We just have a very large country and big head start on most places.
We should win it all every year, but at least the competition is growing

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

That you think this is the same logically suggests you don't understand logic.

1. The Cowboys of 1995 aren't the Cowboys of 2019
2. The top 5 teams in the league in 2019 weren't around in 2015.

That has nothing to do with whether Rousey fought the best fighters between 2013 and 2016. Did she? No.

Oh, so you see some holes in my flimsy analogy, lol? That’s precisely the point.

Meanwhile, you’re completely blind to you’re own argument.

Why are you showing a list of the current top fighters (I don’t see the source either) and claiming Rousey didn’t fight many of them (even though she did)?

She hasn’t fought since 2016.

Of course there’s some names of fighters on there she didn’t fight. For example, Julianna Peña and Jessica Andrade weren’t even ranked Top 10 in 2015.

Ahhh, I get it though...let’s look at today’s Top 10 and claim a fighter that hasn’t fought in 3 years was ducking the names on the current list.

Amazing.

 

[atlantacowboy]

You haven't defended against anything I've said here.

The point here is people are making her out to be much better than she was. She'll never go down as one of the best female fighters in history. There are at least 5 women right now that are better than her, let alone 10-20-50 years from now. She'll be remembered because of the buzz White and the UFC created for her.

Most top fighters and champions have beaten other top fighters and champions. That ranking system didn't start until 2013. Guess how many of the top 10 fighters Rousey has fought.


AMANDA NUNES - got destroyed
CHAMPION

1 Germaine De Randamie - never fought her
2 Ketlen Vieira - never fought her
3 Holly Holm - got destroyed
4 Julianna Peña - never fought her
5 Aspen Ladd - never fought her
6 Raquel Pennington - never fought her
7 Cat Zingano - beat her
8 Yana Kunitskaya - never fought her
9 Marion Reneau - never fought her
10 Irene Aldana - never fought her

Of the top 5 fighters currently, she lost to 2 and never fought the other 3.

In the top 11 she has lost to 2 and only beaten 1, never fought any of the others.

And this list doesn't even include top fighters Schevchenko, Cyborg, Andrade.

She beat who she fought, which is all you can do, but when you duck actual competition and have your opponents hand picked for you... that doesn't make you great. Certainly doesn't make her the best female athlete or fighter. No other sport would allow you to do this. Serena Williams doesn't get to duck competition, you play who advances and that's that. The USWNT can't duck competition. You can't duck competition in the WNBA.

You can't be the best unless you beat the best and Rousey has a poor resume, she fought some decent fighters, but largely fought nobodies who weren't as good in grappling as she was and they had little striking capabilities which meant that her biggest weakness wasn't exposed.

Never heard of any of these people unless they happen to have fought Rhonda, ...........which is the point. I'm not a women's mma fan or even a fight fan. I watched Rhonda's fights b/c they were entertaining. Couldn't care less who you think is better than who. You seem to have a real problem distinguishing opinion from fact. ...... This fighter is great....this fighter is a nobody..... this fighter would have beaten here had the fight occurred........she ducked so and so........ ALL of these statements or anything akin to them are OPINIONS not facts.

I'm no longer entertained by women's mma and don't watch it anymore. I don't have to defend trhonda. He legacy is firmly established in the UFC as are her PPV buys......

 

[Rockport]

No doubt.

This is mainly due to the fact that far more young girls play organized soccer in the US...and have for decades.

While soccer is the world's sport for boys/men, it has not necessarily been that for girls/women.
Slowly, other countries are making it more accessible and have youth girls programs.
We just have a very large country and big head start on most places.
We should win it all every year, but at least the competition is growing

Women’s soccer in this country is.

 

[Galian Beast]

I’m not dancing around anything. I’ve addressed your points straight on. You’re simply just repeating the the points and claiming I’m ducking.

That’s on you not me.

She fought Holly Holm...she fought Nunez...she fought Cat Zigano...

Oh, let me guess....she didn’t fight (name fighter here).

Like I said, you’re naming a bunch of other fighters without context. She would have had to fight 8-9 times a year to have fought everyone on your list.

Your understanding of how the fight game works is naive.

Every champion has their opponents selected. You’re also not factoring the fact that just because you’re a contender that doesn’t mean you deserve a shot at the champion.

Like I said, you’re just naming names in vacuum.

LOL, you're still dancing. They didn't have a rank system until 2013 and you were able to pick your opponnets. You can't do that anymore. And as soon as they created the rank system, Rousey was quickly dispatched as champion after dominating beforehand.

You've still not responded to the fact that all the fighters she beat we're that competitive of fighters.

I didn't say anything about her fighting all of them, my point is she barely fought anyone of worth.

 

[Galian Beast]

Never heard of any of these people unless they happen to have fought Rhonda, ...........which is the point. I'm not a women's mma fan or even a fight fan. I watched Rhonda's fights b/c they were entertaining. Couldn't care less who you think is better than who. You seem to have a real problem distinguishing opinion from fact. ...... This fighter is great....this fighter is a nobody..... this fighter would have beaten here had the fight occurred........she ducked so and so........ ALL of these statements or anything akin to them are OPINIONS not facts.

I'm no longer entertained by women's mma and don't watch it anymore. I don't have to defend trhonda. He legacy is firmly established in the UFC as are her PPV buys......

I get it, you're into media buzz. She has no legacy. She got beat up twice after beating 6 nobodies. She'll be forgotten quickly.

You think it isn't entertaining even though you aren't watching. Watch the Cyborg Nunes fight and tell me that isn't as entertaining as ANY Rousey fight. Nunes Holm was also very entertaining.

You've never heard of these people, have no idea who they are, or how good they are, but you're convinced that because Rousey was popular she was as talented as she was popular... Great argument.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

LOL, you're still dancing. They didn't have a rank system until 2013 and you were able to pick your opponnets. You can't do that anymore. And as soon as they created the rank system, Rousey was quickly dispatched as champion after dominating beforehand.

You've still not responded to the fact that all the fighters she beat we're that competitive of fighters.

I didn't say anything about her fighting all of them, my point is she barely fought anyone of worth.

Rousey was “quickly dispatched as champion” after they created the ranking system? She won the title in March 2012 and lost it in November 2015, smh.

Like the other poster mentioned, your argument is treating your opinions of the facts as a fact.

You made a very specific point to put up a list of current Top 10 (you still haven’t identified the source of the ranking) and criticize Rousey, who hasn’t fought since 2016, for ducking most of the fighters on that list.

1. Just taking the list you provided at face value, she fought Nunez, Holm, and Zigano.

2. You still haven’t addressed the fact that more than a few of the fighters on that current list weren’t even ranked in the Top 10 in 2015.

 

[Galian Beast]

Oh, so you see some holes in my flimsy analogy, lol? That’s precisely the point.

Meanwhile, you’re completely blind to you’re own argument.

Why are you showing a list of the current top fighters (I don’t see the source either) and claiming Rousey didn’t fight many of them (even though she did)?

She hasn’t fought since 2016.

Of course there’s some names of fighters on there she didn’t fight. For example, Julianna Peña and Jessica Andrade weren’t even ranked Top 10 in 2015.

Ahhh, I get it though...let’s look at today’s Top 10 and claim a fighter that hasn’t fought in 3 years was ducking the names on the current list.

Amazing.

Again, most of these fighters were around in 2016, she simply didn't fight them and didn't have to fight them before the rank system was established. Once fighters were able to climb up via ranks, she had no choice, and that is exactly what happened with Holy Holm.

Here is the list from December 2015
Women's Bantamweight

1. ChampionHolly Holm (beat rousey)
2. 1Ronda Rousey
3. 2Miesha Tate (lost to Rousey)
4. 3Cat Zingano (lost to rousey)
5. 4Amanda Nunes (beat rousey)
6. 5Sarah Kaufman 1 (lost to rousey)
7. 6Julianna Pena 1 (rousey didn't fight)
8. 7Sara McMann (rousey didn't fight)
9. 8Bethe Correia (lost to rousey)
10. 9Jessica Eye
11. 10Liz Carmouche (lost to rousey)
12. 11Marion Reneau
13. 12Raquel Pennington
14. 13Germaine de Randamie
15. 14Jessica Andrade
16. 15Lauren Murphy

In the top 5 she was 2-2 against.

What you also ignore was that it was a forming division. You see the people who are originally lower on the list who are currently at the top, because it took them time to climb the ranks via fights because they didn't have a ranking system before.

Cae in point Cat Zingano, ranked 3rd here, lost to Juliana Pena ranked 6th immediately after she lost to Rousey. If Rousey had not run away and/or lost she would have had to fight Pena as well at some point. The real cream has risen to the top due to the rank system where for the majority of time where Rousey was fighting this wasn't the case. It takes a while after a ranking system is implemented for the best fighters to get a chance to advance, particularly when the fights are so spread out. My guess is if there was no ranking system, Rousey STILL might be champion.

 

[Galian Beast]

US Women’s soccer is the best in the WORLD and has been for a long time.

They're certainly the best, but they also had a world cup championship drought for 16 years.

 

[Galian Beast]

No doubt.

This is mainly due to the fact that far more young girls play organized soccer in the US...and have for decades.

While soccer is the world's sport for boys/men, it has not necessarily been that for girls/women.
Slowly, other countries are making it more accessible and have youth girls programs.
We just have a very large country and big head start on most places.
We should win it all every year, but at least the competition is growing

To suggest that we should win it all every year ignores I think the competitive level in the sport. Germany won back to back world cup championships. Women's soccer in Europe has quite a bit of investment.

I think we have the best team in the world and the roster is quite deep as well as the talent that didn't even make the 23, but England, France, Germany, Netherlands, and Sweden are all quite good and could beat us on any given day depending on the circumstances.

 

[Galian Beast]

Are we really trying to treat what one fighter says about another as objective fact?

The chatter of one fighter supposedly being a fraud or ducking a fight is standard parlance in the fighting sports world.

BTW, Rousey beat Cat Zingano in Feb. 2015. Cyborg came in to the UFC in March 2015. Rousey’s next fight was Beth Correia in August 2015 and she subsequently lost to Holly Holms in Nov. 2015 (then put on medical suspension). She didn’t fight again until Dec. 2016 against Nunez, which was the same time Cyborg got popped for steroid masking agents.

Where’s the ducking?

People wanted her to fight Cyborg well before then.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...rousey-in-strikeforce-was-told-shes-not-ready


She's been ducking Cyborg since before UFC bought strikeforce.

And she is still ducking Cyborg even now in the WWE, which is hilarious.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/8413214/wwe-future-ronda-rousey-cris-cyborg/

 

[Galian Beast]

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/ufc-s-biggest-star-suffers-from-lack-of-quality-opponents-1.2301068

For all the hoopla surrounding her fight in Brazil, the bookies make her an unbackable favourite, and most informed speculation centres on whether the underwhelming Correia, who has never defeated a top-10 ranked opponent, can endure for even 30 seconds.

 

[Galian Beast]

https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/2014...t-at-145-for-gina-carano-and-only-gina-carano

While Rousey (8-0 MMA, 3-0 UFC) still eyes Cat Zingano (8-0 MMA, 1-0 UFC) as the next challenger to her UFC women’s bantamweight title, she is willing to fight at 145 pounds if Gina Carano decides to come out of retirement.

“For Gina, there would be exceptions that I would make for Gina that I wouldn’t for anyone else,” Rousey told MMAjunkie.

Rousey is expected to fight Zingano later this year in her fourth attempted title defense. Zingano is nearing 100 percent as she recovers from a torn ACL suffered nearly a year ago and recently made headlines by announcing her readiness to take a title shot offered her before the injury.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Again, most of these fighters were around in 2016, she simply didn't fight them and didn't have to fight them before the rank system was established. Once fighters were able to climb up via ranks, she had no choice, and that is exactly what happened with Holy Holm.

Here is the list from December 2015
Women's Bantamweight

1. ChampionHolly Holm (beat rousey)
2. 1Ronda Rousey
3. 2Miesha Tate (lost to Rousey)
4. 3Cat Zingano (lost to rousey)
5. 4Amanda Nunes (beat rousey)
6. 5Sarah Kaufman 1 (lost to rousey)
7. 6Julianna Pena 1 (rousey didn't fight)
8. 7Sara McMann (rousey didn't fight)
9. 8Bethe Correia (lost to rousey)
10. 9Jessica Eye
11. 10Liz Carmouche (lost to rousey)
12. 11Marion Reneau
13. 12Raquel Pennington
14. 13Germaine de Randamie
15. 14Jessica Andrade
16. 15Lauren Murphy

In the top 5 she was 2-2 against.

What you also ignore was that it was a forming division. You see the people who are originally lower on the list who are currently at the top, because it took them time to climb the ranks via fights because they didn't have a ranking system before.

Cae in point Cat Zingano, ranked 3rd here, lost to Juliana Pena ranked 6th immediately after she lost to Rousey. If Rousey had not run away and/or lost she would have had to fight Pena as well at some point. The real cream has risen to the top due to the rank system where for the majority of time where Rousey was fighting this wasn't the case. It takes a while after a ranking system is implemented for the best fighters to get a chance to advance, particularly when the fights are so spread out. My guess is if there was no ranking system, Rousey STILL might be champion.

Does anyone else see the moving goal posts, lol?

First it was she didn’t fight many Top 10 opponents.

She fought 7 of the Top 10 names on that list.

Now it’s “oh, well she didn’t do that well against them!”

 

[Galian Beast]

Does anyone else see the moving goal posts, lol?

First it was she didn’t fight many Top 10 opponents.

She fought 7 of the Top 10 names on that list.

Now it’s “oh, well she didn’t do that well against them!”

Goal posts are only moving if you ignore reality.

How were the first rankings systems decided? Was there a tournament? No. The media decides the rankings. In 2016 after Holm had already destroyed Ronda Rousey, and she hadn't fought again, somehow she was the #1 contender above two fighters she had never fought before who were on the rise.

My point is after a while even the media can't avoid the reality, which is how the ranking system is now void of nostalgia and hoopla over fighters who were never that great in the first place.

She ducked competition time and time again, she fought people coming off of injury, or off short training regimes. All of this stuff is out there. She was willing to fight Carano out of retirement at 145, and knew she would be asked if she would do the same for Cyborg at 145... she said that Carano is the only exception she would make... Hilarious. She wanted no piece of 145 and the fighters there, even though she was the "Best" female fighter dominating her opponents in short order... again it helps when your opponents were never that good in the first place.

 

[Galian Beast]

Cyborg was killing herself to cut down to 135 in order to fight in bantamweight, and cocky Rousey offers to fight Carano at 145 but no one else. That weight, combined with no tournament, or ranking system helped Rousey pick her opponents. Even the ranking system as it is allowed her to face off lesser opponents for a while. There is a reason why she left UFC after 2 back to back horrendous losses during her PRIME fighting years.

You guys have no leg to stand on. The reason Rousey has "retired" is because she is well aware of the obvious, that women her same age, now with opportunity and recognition would wipe the floor with her. At this rate, if she fought anyone in the top 5, she would probably be manhandled. It's not the same platform where she could pick people who had never really fought anyone else. That division is now a blender, and even if she had some success she has no chance against Nunes, so it's not even worth it for her. She knows she'll never be champion again, hence why she will never fight again.

 

[Galian Beast]

https://www.foxsports.com/ufc/story...e-for-years-shes-not-going-to-fight-me-112116

Cyborg breaks it down perfectly here. Refused to fight her at 145, refused to fight her at 140, she knew it would be difficult for Cyborg to get down to 135 and stay there for a long period, but she insisted.

She got her clock rung by Holm, took a year off, and SOMEHOW got a title fight. Cyborg is absolutely right, there were 5 other girls she should have fought before getting a fight against Nunes, at least a rematch against Holly Holm.

And Cyborg called it perfectly. Either she would lose and retire, which she did, or had she somehow bettered Nunes, she would have again said she wouldn't fight Cyborg unless she was at 135 and I guarantee the fight still wouldn't have happened.

Great fighters and champions fight EVERYONE they can, they don't avoid the best, and that is clearly what Ronda did her entire time with the belt and it is clearly what she did in retiring after getting clocked by Nunes. How anyone is arguing counter to that is perplexing.

What 29-year-old fighter who is one of the best in history retires? The ones that fought hand-picked opponents and then realized that those days were numbered.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Goal posts are only moving if you ignore reality.

How were the first rankings systems decided? Was there a tournament? No. The media decides the rankings. In 2016 after Holm had already destroyed Ronda Rousey, and she hadn't fought again, somehow she was the #1 contender above two fighters she had never fought before who were on the rise.

My point is after a while even the media can't avoid the reality, which is how the ranking system is now void of nostalgia and hoopla over fighters who were never that great in the first place.

She ducked competition time and time again, she fought people coming off of injury, or off short training regimes. All of this stuff is out there. She was willing to fight Carano out of retirement at 145, and knew she would be asked if she would do the same for Cyborg at 145... she said that Carano is the only exception she would make... Hilarious. She wanted no piece of 145 and the fighters there, even though she was the "Best" female fighter dominating her opponents in short order... again it helps when your opponents were never that good in the first place.

“In 2016 after Holm had already destroyed Ronda Rousey, and she hadn't fought again, somehow she was the #1 contender above two fighters she had never fought before who were on the rise.”

That in a nutshell illustrates you’re completely ignorant on the subject or simply can’t see behind your obvious blinding bias. I think it’s the latter not the former.

She was the dominant champ for ~3 years before Holm’s beat her. She had never been handled like that in the cage before. Of course she was going to be the top ranked contender in her next fight back.

Why in the world do you think she has to fight the two other fighters you referenced to be considered the #1 contender, lol?

You have a really naive understanding of how the fight game and rankings work. Do you really think you a fighter fights the #10 ranked opponent, then #9, then #8, #7.......until they get to the champ?

If your answer is “no,” then what would you say if the same fighter fought the #7 ranked opponent, followed up by fighting #3, and then the Champ?

My guess is if it’s anyone not named Rousey you’d say “hmmmm, I could see that in the right scenario,” but if it was Rousey you’d say “why didn’t she fight the #6, 5, 4, and 2 ranked fighters??? She’s ducking them!!!”

 

[Galian Beast]

“In 2016 after Holm had already destroyed Ronda Rousey, and she hadn't fought again, somehow she was the #1 contender above two fighters she had never fought before who were on the rise.”

That in a nutshell illustrates you’re completely ignorant on the subject or simply can’t see behind your obvious blinding bias. I think it’s the latter not the former.

She was the dominant champ for ~3 years before Holm’s beat her. She had never been handled like that in the cage before. Of course she was going to be the top ranked contender in her next fight back.

Why in the world do you think she has to fight the two other fighters you referenced to be considered the #1 contender, lol?

You have a really naive understanding of how the fight game and rankings work. Do you really think you a fighter fights the #10 ranked opponent, then #9, then #8, #7.......until they get to the champ?

If your answer is “no,” then what would you say if the same fighter fought the #7 ranked opponent, followed up by fighting #3, and then the Champ?

My guess is if it’s anyone not named Rousey you’d say “hmmmm, I could see that in the right scenario,” but if it was Rousey you’d say “why didn’t she fight the #6, 5, 4, and 2 ranked fighters??? She’s ducking them!!!”

She at least needs to fight Holm again before getting a title shot. She took an entire year off after a completely dominating performance. Meanwhile, others have positioned themselves for title fights only to be overlooked.

I don't think you understand the limited opportunities people get for a title fight. A champion might only fight once or twice in a year. You miss your shot and your wait could be another 18+ months as a result depending on when your next fight is scheduled as well.

Holm lost to three straight fighters after beating Rousey, showing that the division had massively moved on. Tate who beat Holm had already lost the belt immediately to Nunes. This is reformation.

And no I didn't see you have to fight everyone ranked ahead of you to get a title shot, but when you have a #1 contender who hasn't fought the champion yet. She literally climbed the ranks without fighting, which combined with her performance against Nunes, confirm she should not have been given the opportunity.

You might not know this but she fell in the rankings during her time away from UFC and miraculously was given ranking back. If she and her team weren't so cocky they would have had her take a comeback fight and maybe pick and choose her opponents again, but I think at this point they probably realized her best bet was a lucky opportunity against Nunes, she had no chance against these girls who were establishing themselves at the time of the Nunes Rousey fight.