Would you have tanked for Ryan Leaf?

[garyo1954]

There is enough tape on Lawrence that I don't think he really has to impress anybody right now. Lawrence is hands down, more talented then any QB who has come out in years IMO. Now, will that translate into the NFL, that's hard to say because a lot of that has to do with the situation they get drafted into but that's not on Lawrence, that's a franchise thing to me.

Agree franchise plays a huge role in the success of QBs. Ryan Tannehill as an example. In his Miami years his rate was 87. Since moving to Tennessee its increased to 112.2.
His completion percentage increased 5%, his interceptions are down, and his TD to interceptions ratio has improved.

Kirk Cousins numbers improved when he left Washington for Minnesota. This year he's at his lowest in rate at 97.7 since the move. Happy players who know they have a chance to win play better than players stuck on rosters where they know they will never win.

 

[Ranching]

So, you agree with losing on purpose?

 

[conner01]

We aren’t tanking for a QB.

You’re drafting a 10+ year blue chip LT who will play LG until Smith retires / injured. Sewell plays nasty and that’s what we need

I’d play him RT and Collins guard

 

[conner01]

We don’t need to tank
We are losing already

 

[jnday]

I don't understand why someone would want to lose on purpose to draft a player that is not proven. Could put us back another 10 years.......

I wouldn’t have tanked for Leaf, but Manning and Luck was well worth it. Tanking for just any QB is not that smart but there has been some that is worth it. You speak of the uncertainty, but there is no guarantee that Dak returns to full form and even then , he has proven nothing at this point in his career unless you are infatuated with stats that haven’t translated to wins. Actually, the team won a lot more when he was passing for 200 yards per game.

 

[Reality]

I don't understand why someone would want to lose on purpose to draft a player that is not proven. Could put us back another 10 years.......

 

[jnday]

The answer in No. Ryan Leaf was a dumb guy. Dumb guys with big arms always tank in the NFL. JaMarcus Russell...BIG arm, little brain. That combo always fails.

Jimmy Johnson has always said that he couldn’t stand dumb players and that he could always do well if the player was smart.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Nope. I don't understand how anyone would want to lose on purpose. I just have a hard time with that.

I understand that. I mean, to be perfectly honest, that's not the way I learned or taught the game either. The NFL, I think is different now. It's a business and money is always a factor. There are definite benefits to replacing intrusive salaries with cheaper younger players. It's a bottom line thing now with cap and how you manage your team. That's always existed but I think that plays a bigger role now in how teams manage cap and the idea of landing a generational QB or player at the cost of tanking is becoming more attractive.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like that and probably never will so your point is definitely not lost on me. I pretty much share your opinions here but the reality is the reality unfortunately and I believe that this is the modern reality in the NFL.

In terms of the point of you were making earlier about Leaf, I was just trying to point out that teams who were "tanking" may not have been focused on Leaf. They may have been focused on Manning who, in retrospect, was a pretty damn good QB and it would be hard to look back and say, if you knew then what you know now, would you tank to get a guy like Manning? He was pretty good.

 

[windward]

You make too much sense...the quitters aren't going to like you.

Never bleepin’ quit.

 

[Ranching]

I understand that. I mean, to be perfectly honest, that's not the way I learned or taught the game either. The NFL, I think is different now. It's a business and money is always a factor. There are definite benefits to replacing intrusive salaries with cheaper younger players. It's a bottom line thing now with cap and how you manage your team. That's always existed but I think that plays a bigger role now in how teams manage cap and the idea of landing a generational QB or player at the cost of tanking is becoming more attractive.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like that and probably never will so your point is definitely not lost on me. I pretty much share your opinions here but the reality is the reality unfortunately and I believe that this is the modern reality in the NFL.

In terms of the point of you were making earlier about Leaf, I was just trying to point out that teams who were "tanking" may not have been focused on Leaf. They may have been focused on Manning who, in retrospect, was a pretty damn good QB and it would be hard to look back and say, if you knew then what you know now, would you tank to get a guy like Manning? He was pretty good.

I used Leaf as an example. That said, I coached a game about 14 years ago that, if we had lost, we would have gone into an easier playoff bracket. Some of my coaches said we should rest out starters and take the lose. I ripped them a new! We were up 60-0 at halftime. I pulled my starters after the first series in the 3rd quarter like I always did in blowouts.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I think this is what many fans don’t seem to understand. For every Peyton Manning, there’s a Ryan Leaf or Tim Couch or DeMarcus Russell. I’m amazed 100 times over how many people here seem to think all we need to do is go pick “the QB tree” and “get a can’t miss college QB”. As if it’s that simple.

The other thing that concerns me about the “tanking for Trevor” shenanigans is not where we draft, but who’s doing the drafting. Have we forgotten that Jerry wanted Johnny Football and Paxton Lynch? Jerry and his FO have made some good picks occasionally but I wouldn’t say I have any confidence in them.

But this FO still baffles me on what their vision is. What kind of team are we trying to become? The really good teams that are winning consistently know exactly what kind of team they’re building and what kind of players fit that profile. Here it seems like we have a fantasy football draft every year to see if we just “grab some talent.”

This is a fair point for sure. I would simply say this, which I kind of eluded to earlier, Russell was a slim fit guy at the time he came out. He needed exactly the right situation and there just weren't a lot of those, at the time IMO. Today, Russell might have done much better because of the changes in the game, JMO. Leaf, he's a tough one because he had more good given talent then Manning did, that's a true statement but, his head was not right and you have to wonder if any team could have ever fixed that. That, along with his injury was the death song for him in the NFL. Tim Couch, he's a classic example, IMO, of going to the wrong situation. If he were drafted by a different team, I think he could of been a pretty decent QB in the NFL, JMO.

So much depends on the situation a young QB lands in. Gotta be smart about it and then, it's still a bit of a gamble, I agree.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I used Leaf as an example. That said, I coached a game about 14 years ago that, if we had lost, we would have gone into an easier playoff bracket. Some of my coaches said we should rest out starters and take the lose. I ripped them a new! We were up 60-0 at halftime. I pulled my starters after the first series in the 3rd quarter like I always did in blowouts.

Unfortunately, I've been on both sides of that kind of deal. I get that.

 

[Robbieac]

Nope. I don't understand how anyone would want to lose on purpose. I just have a hard time with that.

In the NFL, you either want to be really good or really bad.

Consistent mediocrity is the worse place to be in the NFL. You are never good enough to compete, and you are never bad enough to be in a high position to have a better chance of drafting game changing players.

Mediocrity only breeds more mediocrity.

 

[PAPPYDOG]

No guarantee that Lawrence will be a HOF player. He may not have the issues that Leaf had, but he's not perfect. Isn't he missing his second game for covid? None of his teammates missed games.......

Don't risk picking a top 5 QB and
pay Dak 35+million to continue to play .500 ball and win 1 playoff game every 5 years!!!
Now if the above isn't a losers life(You Mr.Rancher) tell me what is???

 

[Frosty]

The great news is that we are fans typing words on a forum and have no bearing on what happens on the field at all.

I’ve watched what they put on the field an more impressed with words on this forum than Cowboys on field performance in 2020.

 

[Ranching]

Unfortunately, I've been on both sides of that kind of deal. I get that.

Lol! Me too, fortunately more on the winning side. Those losses were tough, you feel so helpless. I would get in my coaches ear and tell them to keep coaching. Kids came of the field and we'd keep coaching. If they saw us quit, they would quit. I hate quitters and tanking.

 

[cowboyec]

It's in my DNA. When there's nothing left to play for....pride in doing your best should take precedent.

The same people selling their soul for a draft position?.... Complain about our horrible draft skills.

and they are not gonna want to pay Lawrence when his rookie deal is up any more than they want to pay Dak.
so every 4yrs...i guess we just draft a new QB.

 

[Cannibal_Cowboy]

I have an 18 inch scar on my right ankle. Had a complete reconstruction and ligament transplant with 3 titanium screws. Took me 6 months to rehab and it did not hold me back a bit. I'm sure Dak will be 100%.

So after 6 months of rehab you were back to being a starting quarterback in the NFL?

Yeah, that comparison is looking pretty silly right now.

 

[Ranching]

Don't risk picking a top 5 QB and
pay Dak 35+million to continue to play .500 ball and win 1 playoff game every 5 years!!!
Now if the above isn't a losers life(You Mr.Rancher) tell me what is???

I don't care what the game is, if you lose on purpose or root for your team to lose on purpose, you are a loser. Anyone that has strapped them on and worked their butt off, bled, sweat and put in the time understands that. You win more for the guy that lines up next to you than you do for yourself. I haven't coached in 4 years and last Friday I was asked by one of my old assistants to give a pregame speech for his team. They are not very good and have pretty much quit. I talked to them about heart, balls, pride and how fighting for a win, regardless of the scores defines the men they will become. They won 31-14. They hadn't scored 31 points all year. Its a pride thing. Never lose on purpose!

 

[Ranching]

So after 6 months of rehab you were back to being a starting quarterback in the NFL?

Yeah, that comparison is looking pretty silly right now.

I'm not stupid, I know who I was before and after the rehab! Frikkin hater!